DPI and ink consumption

KW said:

Hi all,

People say that there isn't any noticeable difference in photos printed
using 720dpi and 1440dpi. And also people say 1440dpi use up more ink.

OK, if those're true, how could that logically happen? What does the
printer use the extra ink for?

And what is the difference in ink consumption between 720 and 1440dpi?
Is it a factor of 2, theoritically?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Member said:

I think most of the postings on the subject of 720dpi vs 1440dpi say
that there
is a difference, but it is not important for many images. If you
inspect the prints
closely, you will see that large areas of color (sky, etc) are smoother
at 1440dpi.

Printers usually use variable dot size and dithering to allow fewer dpi
to give a
good print with little evidence of the dots themselves. This variable
dot size
is a function of the choice between 720dpi and 1440dpi as I understand it.

You will use more ink at 1440dpi because the droplet size is constant for
the printer and you are laying down more dots in making the print. I
presume
it's a factor of 2.

Click to expand...

Steve said:

Hi all

I have found that 720dpi is more likely (than 1440dpi) to show banding
is large areas of a similar colour.

This apparently seems to be related to the colour space used. From my
Casio QV3000 sRGB will generally print well at 720 dpi but from my slide
scanner its a disaster - even when I convert the colour space.

QV3000 pictures also seem to print well through Photoenhance setting ,
but scanned images don't and no clouradjustment works much better.

It all makes little sense to me - but this is what happens.

Steve

Click to expand...

KW said:

Hi,

Yes you're right. My 860 gives more apparent banding in 720dpi, where
1440dpi gives near-zero banding. (But how am I gonna save ink?)

It's strange to have better model to perform poorer. My old time 640
gave true-zero banding. My previous 720 also printed better at 720dpi.
Is it because of the ink dropplet size? I wonder how the 900 control its
3 picoliter ink drops?

KW

Click to expand...

KW said:

Thanks Darrell, I'll try that sometime.

And what is the 'adjust lever' ( 0+ ) on the printer for?

Regards

KW

Click to expand...

Jeff Crist said:

I haven't noticed any difference with the naked eye of 720 vs 1440dpi
primarily at 5X7 and 8X10 sizes. I believe some people say they use
1440dpi on larger prints, 8X10 and up, to get better results. However
this is contradictory to my understanding of how DPI works. It seems
like the higher DPI would make more of a difference, the SMALLER the
print media size is for a given image.

On a 3.3MP camera, the image is going to be roughly 2,200 pixels wide
(by 1,500 pixels tall). Therefore, an 8X10 will have a maximum
resolution of 220 pixels per inch. Printing at 720 DPI, the printer
will represent each pixel (at highest resolution) with an average of 3.2
dots, or 6.4 dots per pixel at 1440 DPI. Now if you print the same
image on a 4X6, the printed image resolution is 366 pixels per inch
wide. Printing at 720 DPI, you only have 1.96 dots representing each
pixel, or 3.9 at 1440 DPI. So to get the equivalent dot per pixel print
resolution of an 8X10 at 720 DPI on a 4X6, you need to print at 1440DPI
on the 4X6.

My 4X6's at 720 DPI are stunning and I haven't been able to see a real
big difference printing them at 1440 DPI. This leads me to hypothesize
that there is not a significant difference beyond 2 dots per pixel. I
should test this by comparing 3X5's and wallet size 3.3MP images printed
at 720DPI and 1440DPI. I bet there is a noticeable difference when you
go below 4X6's on 3.3MP images?

Click to expand...

KW said:

I have had the same thinking as you some time ago. Please see my posting
on this subject (and some of their replies).

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=266547

I happily bought a C2020 (1600 x 1200 pixel) thinking that since most of
the time I'd print only 4R size, learning from this forum that anything
over 300 ppi will not give noticeable difference on printout anymore. I
myself was also thinking the same way as you, that for example if I
print a 340 ppi picture (2048 pixel / 6 inch) under 720 dpi mode, how
the printer gonna print it correctly using only around 2 dots to
represent 1 pixel?

But theory is theory, fact is fact. Yesterday I just downloaded a sample
photo of Fujifilm S1 Pro from Steve's Digicams. And I anxiouly printed
that 3040 x 2016 (6 megapixel) photo using Epson Stylus 860 (4 colors)
under 720 dpi mode on a small piece of cut-out (remaining) photo paper.
The printout size was 4.67 x 3.1 inches maintaining the aspect ratio of
the original photo. Now, by theory, this would give a 650 ppi printout,
how would you think the printer will print that under 720 dpi mode,
using 1.1 color dot to represent 1 pixel (which is not possible)???

And when I looked at the printout, guess what? I took a deep breathe.
That was what I call a PHOTO! A photo quality photo, needle sharp.

I'm now no more happy with my C2020, or even the C3030 (I have sample
printout from that too some time ago). That is just for people who do
not demand much. And now when people say '...anything beyond 300 ppi is
blah blah blah....' or '....my C2020 gives excellent photo
printouts...', I call that nonsense. (Apologize if I offend anyone.)

I also understand now why those sample printouts contain in the album
promoting printers in store look SO nice and sharp. It is not because
that the printer can print so great, the photo itself is the key. Those
photos must be taken from professional cameras like D1 or S1 Pro etc.
The printers (whatever brand) nowadays are already so great. It's just
the cameras (consumer level) which can't follow.

I guess I'll rob a bank.

KW

KW said:

I haven't noticed any difference with the naked eye of 720 vs 1440dpi
primarily at 5X7 and 8X10 sizes. I believe some people say they use
1440dpi on larger prints, 8X10 and up, to get better results. However
this is contradictory to my understanding of how DPI works. It seems
like the higher DPI would make more of a difference, the SMALLER the
print media size is for a given image.

On a 3.3MP camera, the image is going to be roughly 2,200 pixels wide
(by 1,500 pixels tall). Therefore, an 8X10 will have a maximum
resolution of 220 pixels per inch. Printing at 720 DPI, the printer
will represent each pixel (at highest resolution) with an average of 3.2
dots, or 6.4 dots per pixel at 1440 DPI. Now if you print the same
image on a 4X6, the printed image resolution is 366 pixels per inch
wide. Printing at 720 DPI, you only have 1.96 dots representing each
pixel, or 3.9 at 1440 DPI. So to get the equivalent dot per pixel print
resolution of an 8X10 at 720 DPI on a 4X6, you need to print at 1440DPI
on the 4X6.

My 4X6's at 720 DPI are stunning and I haven't been able to see a real
big difference printing them at 1440 DPI. This leads me to hypothesize
that there is not a significant difference beyond 2 dots per pixel. I
should test this by comparing 3X5's and wallet size 3.3MP images printed
at 720DPI and 1440DPI. I bet there is a noticeable difference when you
go below 4X6's on 3.3MP images?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Paul Linder said:

KW,
You have given me the chance to ask something that has been puzzeling me
since I began thinking about an upgrade from my "old" Epson Photo EX to
a 1270 or whatever comes after. If I'm using a Nikon Coolpix 950, will I
realize any great improvement printwise with the 2.3mpxl limitation, or
is it only the 3.3mpxl cameras that are getting the better prints with
the advanced printers?
Thanks
Paul Linder

Click to expand...

KW said:

I personally have not seen the printout on a 870/1270. But I have
changed from 640 (4 colors, bought wrongly, ignored the dropplet size)
to 710 (6 colors, fine enough, but not stable) and then back to 860 (4
colors) within the past 12 months. I guess beside better skin tone, 6
colors won't give much difference on other object. I remember someone on
this forum said '...my 850 prints every bit as good as my 870...' if I'm
not wrong. After all, 870/1270 has 4 picoliters dropplet size too.

Regarding digicam's resolution, only one rule: if you can afford the
best, get the best. But one sad thing about digital technology: the best
won't stay the best for long.

After comparing printouts on 4R size using Epson 860, 4 colors 720 dpi,
I found that:
1600x1200 (Olympus C2020) acceptable (only)
2048x1536 (Olympus C3030) a bit better
2400x1800 (interpolated, Fujifilm MX-4700) a bit more sharper
3040x2016 (Fujifilm S1 Pro) superb, like those calendar printout

Hope to see a 6 megapixel digicam selling in store with the price of
today's C2020/C3030. 2 years? Or 3?

KW

Paul Linder said:

KW,
You have given me the chance to ask something that has been puzzeling me
since I began thinking about an upgrade from my "old" Epson Photo EX to
a 1270 or whatever comes after. If I'm using a Nikon Coolpix 950, will I
realize any great improvement printwise with the 2.3mpxl limitation, or
is it only the 3.3mpxl cameras that are getting the better prints with
the advanced printers?
Thanks
Paul Linder

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

KW said:

I have had the same thinking as you some time ago. Please see my posting
on this subject (and some of their replies).

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=266547

I happily bought a C2020 (1600 x 1200 pixel) thinking that since most of
the time I'd print only 4R size, learning from this forum that anything
over 300 ppi will not give noticeable difference on printout anymore. I
myself was also thinking the same way as you, that for example if I
print a 340 ppi picture (2048 pixel / 6 inch) under 720 dpi mode, how
the printer gonna print it correctly using only around 2 dots to
represent 1 pixel?

But theory is theory, fact is fact. Yesterday I just downloaded a sample
photo of Fujifilm S1 Pro from Steve's Digicams. And I anxiouly printed
that 3040 x 2016 (6 megapixel) photo using Epson Stylus 860 (4 colors)
under 720 dpi mode on a small piece of cut-out (remaining) photo paper.
The printout size was 4.67 x 3.1 inches maintaining the aspect ratio of
the original photo. Now, by theory, this would give a 650 ppi printout,
how would you think the printer will print that under 720 dpi mode,
using 1.1 color dot to represent 1 pixel (which is not possible)???

And when I looked at the printout, guess what? I took a deep breathe.
That was what I call a PHOTO! A photo quality photo, needle sharp.

I'm now no more happy with my C2020, or even the C3030 (I have sample
printout from that too some time ago). That is just for people who do
not demand much. And now when people say '...anything beyond 300 ppi is
blah blah blah....' or '....my C2020 gives excellent photo
printouts...', I call that nonsense. (Apologize if I offend anyone.)

I also understand now why those sample printouts contain in the album
promoting printers in store look SO nice and sharp. It is not because
that the printer can print so great, the photo itself is the key. Those
photos must be taken from professional cameras like D1 or S1 Pro etc.
The printers (whatever brand) nowadays are already so great. It's just
the cameras (consumer level) which can't follow.

I guess I'll rob a bank.

KW

KW said:

I haven't noticed any difference with the naked eye of 720 vs 1440dpi
primarily at 5X7 and 8X10 sizes. I believe some people say they use
1440dpi on larger prints, 8X10 and up, to get better results. However
this is contradictory to my understanding of how DPI works. It seems
like the higher DPI would make more of a difference, the SMALLER the
print media size is for a given image.

On a 3.3MP camera, the image is going to be roughly 2,200 pixels wide
(by 1,500 pixels tall). Therefore, an 8X10 will have a maximum
resolution of 220 pixels per inch. Printing at 720 DPI, the printer
will represent each pixel (at highest resolution) with an average of 3.2
dots, or 6.4 dots per pixel at 1440 DPI. Now if you print the same
image on a 4X6, the printed image resolution is 366 pixels per inch
wide. Printing at 720 DPI, you only have 1.96 dots representing each
pixel, or 3.9 at 1440 DPI. So to get the equivalent dot per pixel print
resolution of an 8X10 at 720 DPI on a 4X6, you need to print at 1440DPI
on the 4X6.

My 4X6's at 720 DPI are stunning and I haven't been able to see a real
big difference printing them at 1440 DPI. This leads me to hypothesize
that there is not a significant difference beyond 2 dots per pixel. I
should test this by comparing 3X5's and wallet size 3.3MP images printed
at 720DPI and 1440DPI. I bet there is a noticeable difference when you
go below 4X6's on 3.3MP images?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

KW said:

I have had the same thinking as you some time ago. Please see my posting
on this subject (and some of their replies).

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=266547

I happily bought a C2020 (1600 x 1200 pixel) thinking that since most of
the time I'd print only 4R size, learning from this forum that anything
over 300 ppi will not give noticeable difference on printout anymore. I
myself was also thinking the same way as you, that for example if I
print a 340 ppi picture (2048 pixel / 6 inch) under 720 dpi mode, how
the printer gonna print it correctly using only around 2 dots to
represent 1 pixel?

But theory is theory, fact is fact. Yesterday I just downloaded a sample
photo of Fujifilm S1 Pro from Steve's Digicams. And I anxiouly printed
that 3040 x 2016 (6 megapixel) photo using Epson Stylus 860 (4 colors)
under 720 dpi mode on a small piece of cut-out (remaining) photo paper.
The printout size was 4.67 x 3.1 inches maintaining the aspect ratio of
the original photo. Now, by theory, this would give a 650 ppi printout,
how would you think the printer will print that under 720 dpi mode,
using 1.1 color dot to represent 1 pixel (which is not possible)???

And when I looked at the printout, guess what? I took a deep breathe.
That was what I call a PHOTO! A photo quality photo, needle sharp.

I'm now no more happy with my C2020, or even the C3030 (I have sample
printout from that too some time ago). That is just for people who do
not demand much. And now when people say '...anything beyond 300 ppi is
blah blah blah....' or '....my C2020 gives excellent photo
printouts...', I call that nonsense. (Apologize if I offend anyone.)

I also understand now why those sample printouts contain in the album
promoting printers in store look SO nice and sharp. It is not because
that the printer can print so great, the photo itself is the key. Those
photos must be taken from professional cameras like D1 or S1 Pro etc.
The printers (whatever brand) nowadays are already so great. It's just
the cameras (consumer level) which can't follow.

I guess I'll rob a bank.

KW

KW said:

I haven't noticed any difference with the naked eye of 720 vs 1440dpi
primarily at 5X7 and 8X10 sizes. I believe some people say they use
1440dpi on larger prints, 8X10 and up, to get better results. However
this is contradictory to my understanding of how DPI works. It seems
like the higher DPI would make more of a difference, the SMALLER the
print media size is for a given image.

On a 3.3MP camera, the image is going to be roughly 2,200 pixels wide
(by 1,500 pixels tall). Therefore, an 8X10 will have a maximum
resolution of 220 pixels per inch. Printing at 720 DPI, the printer
will represent each pixel (at highest resolution) with an average of 3.2
dots, or 6.4 dots per pixel at 1440 DPI. Now if you print the same
image on a 4X6, the printed image resolution is 366 pixels per inch
wide. Printing at 720 DPI, you only have 1.96 dots representing each
pixel, or 3.9 at 1440 DPI. So to get the equivalent dot per pixel print
resolution of an 8X10 at 720 DPI on a 4X6, you need to print at 1440DPI
on the 4X6.

My 4X6's at 720 DPI are stunning and I haven't been able to see a real
big difference printing them at 1440 DPI. This leads me to hypothesize
that there is not a significant difference beyond 2 dots per pixel. I
should test this by comparing 3X5's and wallet size 3.3MP images printed
at 720DPI and 1440DPI. I bet there is a noticeable difference when you
go below 4X6's on 3.3MP images?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Paul Linder said:

I won't upgrade untill I see the pixel count double from my 950 at the
same price.

Click to expand...

KW said:

Dear user,

Thank you for your mail.

For your query, please refer to the following information.

When printing using 1440dpi, it utilizes only slightly more ink and it
depends on the image you print. EPSON printers utilize Variable Sized
Droplet Technology in 720dpi and 1440 dpi mode.

Variable Sized Droplet Technology employs the smallest droplet for areas
of fine details, medium droplet for areas of gradiation and large droplet
for solid areas. In areas of fine details, slight more ink is used to produce
the details that you need in your picture. That's the beauty of our
technology. Hence it is not twice the ink volume.

Rgds,
Tina (Customer Service Dept)
Epson Singapore Pte Ltd

Click to expand...

Jeff said:

But did you compare the same photo printed at 1440 DPI?

Click to expand...