Shame on Olympus

Nico,

I notice you're using manual focus. With both my c2100 & e100, "if you want infinity", you must back off from the very top of the manual focus meter to get sharp infinity focus. With my c2100 it's usually 2 or three clicks from the top, with my e100 it may be more like 5 clicks from the top.... I don't know if it'll help with your situation but in case you didn't know about it, it might be something to try. It can take several trips up & down the top of the meter to determine since the magnified view you get with each click may take some getting used to & considerable concentration to get a handle on it.....

Nico said:

You are not alone !!!!!

My e100 has ver73 and Olympus South Africa will not pay the $200 +
postage to Europe to do upgrade under warranty (maybe ? not even
under warranty as that is admitting a problem )

I will not buy another Olympus product if they don't sort this out

• I will take the matter all the way ....

Q ? Has anyone done a test on this focus problem - I have 10+ years
SLR experience and it just seems as if their is a pattern in the
out-of-focus problem - I don't always get it in low light sometimes
in really decent light ? In South Africa we have great light
conditions ...
I have not had the time to do test myself but I urge other users to
record the f stop and speed but most important the focal lenght of
shots that really should have been INFOCUS BUT ARE NOT. Maybe if we
start posting some of these facts then the pattern will emerge.

I ger really great shots with this camera will post soon -
difficult with my bandwith etc...

But this weekend doing a Kick-boxing tournament I had focus
problems and the data on some of the shots are:
FOCUS NOT CORRECT :
Software - V151P-73
ExposureTime - 10/8000 seconds
FNumber - 5.0000
ExposureProgram - 1 (manual control)
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 3.5000 (average)
FocalLength - 57.3000 mm

ExposureTime - 10/6500 seconds
FNumber - 5.0000
ExposureProgram - 1 (manual control)
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 3.5000 (average)
FocalLength - 54.0000 mm

Both of these were really full frame shots of subjest so not really
possible for the focus system to focus on another area of picture.

I will cont with my personal testing please assist if you can.

Thanks
Nico

PS - any place in the exif info that gives the actual focus distance ?
PSS - when you autofocus and switch to manual does the cam keep the
focus distance ? This could really help to overcome this problem in
some situations.

Click to expand...

--
'Happy Shootin' !!!

http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz http://www.pbase.com/uzgroup/root http://www.pbase.com/otfgallery/uzpshooter

Me & My UZI, Strollin Down The Avenue. Me & My UZI, Focusin On Somethin New. To 'UZe' Or Not To 'UZe'? That 'IS' The Question. EOneHndrdArEss/sEEtWNTYoNEhNDRDyOUzEE/BeeCCC/sEE-CCX

they keep track of what units are manufactured with whatever different OEM parts there might be over time. Wouldn't the serial number be enough to determine what version of a particular update would work with any given unit to provide the same reliable improvements across the whole model line?

Couldn't they just have a version 78a for one serial group and a 78b version for a later serial group & so on?

Offer them up on a download page with detailed instructions, As well as specific warnings just as Diamond, ATI & others do.

I'm pretty sure these warnings would cover any repair responsability to the extent that Oly would no longer be responsible for, as long as they're prominently displayed in the update description etc.

Then I for one have no qualms if Oly charges through the roof to repair or replace units carelessly updated by users.

And if what you say is true with regard to OEM's folding or discontinuing certain parts. How is it Canon, Minolta & Nikon don't seem to have the same attitude?
Do you think they're exempt from having thier OEM companies disappearing???

I'm completely ignorant to the ways & means with regard to most of the inner workings of modern computer electronics but based on my expierience with my c2100, combined with what I've read over the past year & a half here & the semi-consistant complaints of lock-ups & card errors. I'm of the uneducated oppinion there's an inherant, general weakness in the basic Operating system in Oly cameras to begin with, that merely requires a slight write back to a card (CF or SM) to turn some cameras into a useless brick with that card till it can be formatted with SM/CFPrep or something other than an in-camera format. Which if Oly's OS could at least recognize the card & combined with a more thorough Fugi-like or SMPrep/CFPrep-like in-camera format, might be more beneficial. This seems to be a possible problem with many models since I've read of it happening to models from the earliest c2??? all the way up to the most recent c5050.

I have no idea why this kind of stuff happens to a relative minority of units, in widely varying degrees, yet doesn't happen ever to the lions share of units but I feel Oly must know about it & would think that since it's been an issue across many models, over several years that the 5050 by now wouldn't/shouldn't be having to use such a few brands of CF cards because of it. And now some of thier recommended brands are also fouling.

This might be a little off the subject but it's been a real problem for me & a few others and even firmware updates doesn't seem to fix it & is probably my main reason for not having any brand loyalty towards Oly. They just happened to hook me with a couple unique cameras that deliver well between lock-ups. If it weren't for SMPrep with my reader, I'd have trashed all 5 of the SMcards I'm using, including Oly cards. My e100 has not had a CF card problem but I have CFPrepped someone elses e100 CFcard that his e100 wasn't recognizing after a long period with no problem. If I wasn't so enamoured with the 10x "IS" fun I've had for the past 2 years & with any other electronic product if I were to have the same problems I'd normally be fuming. I think Oly should be held to a higher standard than we've been reading about here.

They've obviously solved many of the major developements such as thier truer to life color & saturation & are quite leading edge in overall design but they're lacking considerably with regard to the smaller details IMHO & don't seem willing to rectify those smaller details & QC.

All it takes to lock my Uzi up is the Thumbnail view command from windows being written to any of my cards. That's pretty feeble for something that's made to take pictures. who amongst us hasn'd used thumbnail view to view a cards contents????

I would love to be able to selectively download only the good shots & erase the bad ones prior to loading them on my computer but I can't & if it weren't for this forum and especially the Yahoo2100 group. I'd have spent hundreds on SM cards instead of saving the ones I've got & or I'd have sent my camera to Oly several times by now. Instead of just once.
Sorry for the rant but!?

Gordon Uchenick said:

I'm in the embedded computing industry. From my point of view, a
digicam is just one example of an embedded computer. Things are not
quite as simple as you indicate. Between production run small
changes will often be made. Most commonly these changes are because
a different supplier for some component is being used and that
different component requires an accomidating change in the
firmware. You can't always take the latest firmware for a device
and install it. The hardware foundation may have changed underneath
you.

Click to expand...

.

Gordon Uchenick said:

I wrote
this long message so that the group could understand the difficulty
of providing this service and not claim that it is simple. Hope it
helped.

Click to expand...

--
'Happy Shootin' !!!

http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz http://www.pbase.com/uzgroup/root http://www.pbase.com/otfgallery/uzpshooter

Me & My UZI, Strollin Down The Avenue. Me & My UZI, Focusin On Somethin New. To 'UZe' Or Not To 'UZe'? That 'IS' The Question. EOneHndrdArEss/sEEtWNTYoNEhNDRDyOUzEE/BeeCCC/sEE-CCX

Came home early this evening, and my room was eerily silent. My PC was off , but I'd left with it on . UPS or no UPS, it doesn't turn on anymore. Looks like the power-supply went out. No fans, not hard drive spin-up, no nothing. Got my fingers crossed it didn't take any other hardware with it.

Probably won't be able to take it in for a few days either (would do it myself, but it's a warranty issue).

At least I've got a backup system to check mail, etc.

Gene Miller said:

Inigo Montoya said:

Gene Miller said:

The same holds true for motherboards. I build computers and do this
all the time. A power failure could cause enough corruption to
cause one to return a motherboard back to the vendor.

Click to expand...

Not at my house. I've got an UPS that ensures enough power for the
time it would take to flash a BIOS. ;-)

Memory is a little hazy, but I think power did actually "blink"
once during an update.

Click to expand...

--
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Click to expand...

It sounds like a power supply problem. Since it is under warranty they should fix it. What brand is it? Nothing like having another computer as a backup. I have a Sony notebook as a backup with a wireless network. For backup on my main computer, I have a spare a motherboard, a 1ghz cpu, hard drive, ram. I have enough equipment to build another computer. I keep upgrading and then end up with extra equipment. I also backup all my data on CD's. Just don't have a UPS. I hope you're up running soon with your main computer. Let us know what's happening with you. Take care.

Inigo Montoya said:

At least I've got a backup system to check mail, etc.

Gene Miller said:

Inigo Montoya said:

Gene Miller said:

The same holds true for motherboards. I build computers and do this
all the time. A power failure could cause enough corruption to
cause one to return a motherboard back to the vendor.

Click to expand...

Not at my house. I've got an UPS that ensures enough power for the
time it would take to flash a BIOS. ;-)

Memory is a little hazy, but I think power did actually "blink"
once during an update.

Click to expand...

--
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Gene Miller said:

It sounds like a power supply problem. Since it is under warranty
they should fix it. What brand is it? Nothing like having another
computer as a backup. I have a Sony notebook as a backup with a
wireless network. For backup on my main computer, I have a spare a
motherboard, a 1ghz cpu, hard drive, ram. I have enough equipment
to build another computer. I keep upgrading and then end up with
extra equipment. I also backup all my data on CD's. Just don't have
a UPS. I hope you're up running soon with your main computer. Let
us know what's happening with you. Take care.

Click to expand...

What brand? LOL.... ummm...... "Mom and Pop Special"??

It's an Athlon 2200+ with a gig of RAM. A "bare bones" special I ported most of the guts of the system I'm using now over to. I picked it up at one of those "computer show and sale" deals, but from a local vendor with a real storefront.

Some good news -- I was able to confirm a little while ago that the drives are operational.

I suspect the power supply too, but ever since they came out with these #@%@%@!% motherboard/case combos where the power switch is simply a "suggestion" to turn off/on (momentary contact, vs a real make/break the main electrical path) I'm never quite sure anymore. My own fault on that really -- should have known better with this case.

Sounds like a real powerful unit. Mine is only a 1.4 Ghz Athlon with 3/4 gig ram. I'm glad your drives are good. Now at least all you data and programs will be fine. I think you'll have it up and running soon. Hopefully without too much fustration. Good luck.

Inigo Montoya said:

Gene Miller said:

It sounds like a power supply problem. Since it is under warranty
they should fix it. What brand is it? Nothing like having another
computer as a backup. I have a Sony notebook as a backup with a
wireless network. For backup on my main computer, I have a spare a
motherboard, a 1ghz cpu, hard drive, ram. I have enough equipment
to build another computer. I keep upgrading and then end up with
extra equipment. I also backup all my data on CD's. Just don't have
a UPS. I hope you're up running soon with your main computer. Let
us know what's happening with you. Take care.

Click to expand...

What brand? LOL.... ummm...... "Mom and Pop Special"??

It's an Athlon 2200+ with a gig of RAM. A "bare bones" special I
ported most of the guts of the system I'm using now over to. I
picked it up at one of those "computer show and sale" deals, but
from a local vendor with a real storefront.

Some good news -- I was able to confirm a little while ago that the
drives are operational.

I suspect the power supply too, but ever since they came out with
these #@%@%@!% motherboard/case combos where the power switch is
simply a "suggestion" to turn off/on (momentary contact, vs a real
make/break the main electrical path) I'm never quite sure anymore.
My own fault on that really -- should have known better with this
case.

Click to expand...

--
C700uz, E100rs, Stylus 300
http://www.pbase.com/gene
Life is just a stage and we all have enough pictures to proof it!

Thanks for response.

I was using Aotufocus ? where do you see Manual Focus ? I use manual exposure program to have better control as I use a "big" Pentax 400T flash for fill-in most of the time.....

BTW I get around 6/8 bursts with with flash set on 1/16 or 1/4 power and up to 7.5frames per second on the EZI. (mostly use 3seconds per frame)

Did another kickboxing event yesterday some great shots but even really concentrating on the focus some were still out ? I really enjoy a SLR viewfinder when I pick it up... Will have to rob a bank and go that route one day.

Well I will continue my testing and will start a new post this week with results..

Thanks
Nico

'UZ'pShoot'ERS' said:

Nico said:

You are not alone !!!!!

My e100 has ver73 and Olympus South Africa will not pay the $200 +
postage to Europe to do upgrade under warranty (maybe ? not even
under warranty as that is admitting a problem )

I will not buy another Olympus product if they don't sort this out

• I will take the matter all the way ....

Q ? Has anyone done a test on this focus problem - I have 10+ years
SLR experience and it just seems as if their is a pattern in the
out-of-focus problem - I don't always get it in low light sometimes
in really decent light ? In South Africa we have great light
conditions ...
I have not had the time to do test myself but I urge other users to
record the f stop and speed but most important the focal lenght of
shots that really should have been INFOCUS BUT ARE NOT. Maybe if we
start posting some of these facts then the pattern will emerge.

I ger really great shots with this camera will post soon -
difficult with my bandwith etc...

But this weekend doing a Kick-boxing tournament I had focus
problems and the data on some of the shots are:
FOCUS NOT CORRECT :
Software - V151P-73
ExposureTime - 10/8000 seconds
FNumber - 5.0000
ExposureProgram - 1 (manual control)
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 3.5000 (average)
FocalLength - 57.3000 mm

ExposureTime - 10/6500 seconds
FNumber - 5.0000
ExposureProgram - 1 (manual control)
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
CompressedBitsPerPixel - 3.5000 (average)
FocalLength - 54.0000 mm

Both of these were really full frame shots of subjest so not really
possible for the focus system to focus on another area of picture.

I will cont with my personal testing please assist if you can.

Thanks
Nico

PS - any place in the exif info that gives the actual focus distance ?
PSS - when you autofocus and switch to manual does the cam keep the
focus distance ? This could really help to overcome this problem in
some situations.

Click to expand...

--
'Happy Shootin' !!!
http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz http://www.pbase.com/uzgroup/root
http://www.pbase.com/otfgallery/uzpshooter
Me & My UZI, Strollin Down The Avenue. Me & My UZI, Focusin On
Somethin New. To 'UZe' Or Not To 'UZe'? That 'IS' The Question.
EOneHndrdArEss/sEEtWNTYoNEhNDRDyOUzEE/BeeCCC/sEE-CCX

Click to expand...

I couldn't wait and just picked up a new one today. Swapped it in, everything came up. Swapped it out, still dead as a doornail, so back in the new one went, and there it will stay.

Gene Miller said:

Sounds like a real powerful unit. Mine is only a 1.4 Ghz Athlon
with 3/4 gig ram. I'm glad your drives are good. Now at least all
you data and programs will be fine. I think you'll have it up and
running soon. Hopefully without too much fustration. Good luck.

Click to expand...

Did you get your original computer case/power supply at one of the places listed on my links page?
--

• Eric, http://www.InvisibleRobot.com/

Inigo Montoya said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm given great pause at even
considering another Olympus brand camera when I finally make the
move past my Uzi/Ezi. (Unless maybe I could find a like-new E-10
for $400)

Click to expand...

I ended up going for an E-10 after all. The clincher was stumbling upon one "new in box" for the same price as Olympus is selling their refurbs. (For anyone interested - MicroCenter in Fairfax, VA should have two left).

I still have the same concerns, but when it comes right down to it, they do seem to really be able to deliver the best bang for the buck. The clincher was that it's new, not refurb, so I have a full year of warranty vs only 30 days, and I made sure I purchased it with a credit card that automatically doubles that. Two years is enough that I don't feel the need to shell out $200 more for the Olympus 2 year extension.

I'm also a bit more comfortable that the knobs aren't going to come off in my hands on this one -- the thing is a beast and built like a tank. I read some interesting info on how the solid aluminum body was designed to act as a heat sink for the CCD. It must work. I took a 30 second dark frame shot to check for noise and hot pixels and it was quieter than either my Ezi or Uzi at half that speed.

So, maybe "shame on Olympus", but if so, then I guess it's also "shame on me" for handing them my wallet again. Call me a happy hypocrite.

I think you made a good choice. They are awsome cameras and as you mention a very good buy for a dSLR. With Melanie and Gladys now looking at different cameras, I look forward to your comments and company once in a while over on the Oly forum. It is kind of quiet there.

Thanks for clearing up some of the misconceptions that have been going around lately about the Exxs.

--
Leo

Yes, but will you still respect yourself in the morning?? ;-)

I think all of our frustration over these points is that we love our Olympus cameras so fanatically that we want "the company" to realize what their products mean to us and not abandon us like orphans when a new model rolls our favorites off to the marketing dustbin.

Although I did buy a Canon, I feel like a traitor and I'm sure I'll be back for more Olympus "abuse" !

Congratulations on your new baby.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Inigo Montoya wrote:

I guess it's also "shame on me" for handing them my wallet again. Call me a happy hypocrite.

Did it come with the upgraded firmware with the hot pixel remapping feature added? Or do you have to send it in and pay the $50?
--

• Eric, http://www.InvisibleRobot.com/

Eric Carlson said:

Did it come with the upgraded firmware with the hot pixel remapping
feature added? Or do you have to send it in and pay the $50?

Click to expand...

Funny you should ask.... yes, it has pixel mapping. I've already run a couple long exposure dark frames, and at 8 seconds there were a handful (more than 4) of hot spots. I also ran some dark frames using the "bulb" exposure setting and ran it all the way up to 30 seconds. The 30 second shots were overall cleaner than the 16 second ones on either my Ezi or Uzi, so I was suitably impressed. Still, I figured let's see what the pixel mapping could do.

The initial run worried me -- the test images following it had a noticeable area in the middle of them that was brighter than everything else... sort of a very soft glow. Then I realized I'd run the test with the eyepiece open and that light had probably leaked in. I also wasn't sure if it was better to run the test on a hot or cold CCD, so I let it sit overnight and re-mapped again in the morning, making sure to close the eyepiece. Much better results. No glow, anymore, but the hot spots were still there, but somewhat dimmer. Nothing I'm going to worry about immediately. Will probably see how things go, and if it's an issue do like I did with my Uzi and send it in under warranty before the year is up.

Umm. That's $20, not $50....

Eric Carlson said:

Did it come with the upgraded firmware with the hot pixel remapping
feature added? Or do you have to send it in and pay the $50?
--

• Eric, http://www.InvisibleRobot.com/

Click to expand...

Here's something else I experienced with olympus. They told me that they could do a firmware upgrade for me and it would be covered by the warranty. 8 days later I got it back, and they didn't even tell me that nothing was done. Smacks of unprofessionalism, they probably thought I wouldn't know how to check for a firmware upgrade and kept quiet about it.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27850

I believe as a general rule, they don't / won't upgrade firmware "just to upgrade firmware". What you need to do is give them a reason you need it. For example, if you know that a later version has better low-light focusing, or corrects some kind of exposure problem, then in your request for service you should say something like "I'm having some trouble with the accuracy of the camera's low-light focus ability. I understand that the latest firmware corrects this issue." It's like a magic pass-phrase or something. In my case, I had version -74 firmware which has a bug that causes the camera to forget its settings and default back to AUTO ISO even when "RESET OFF" is set.
Give them a reason you need it. That shouldn't be too hard.

I read your thread, and I don't think the link between version -73 firmware and SDS is quite as you explained it. As I understand it, at the time the cameras sensitive to SDS were made, -73 was the latest firmware, so it's more a way to date the time of your camera's production and less a direct cause/effect.

Since you had the thing in under warranty, I'm pretty sure they tack on a few more months after that. I'd resubmit the request, but "give a reason".

briareos said:

Here's something else I experienced with olympus. They told me that
they could do a firmware upgrade for me and it would be covered by
the warranty. 8 days later I got it back, and they didn't even tell
me that nothing was done. Smacks of unprofessionalism, they
probably thought I wouldn't know how to check for a firmware
upgrade and kept quiet about it.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27850

Click to expand...

But this whole firmware issue is just a exercise in pettiness. There is little risk involved.

Someone reported that they had watched an Oly technician upgrade firmware, and that it requires booting the camera from a memory card. So that would mean that you require a card reader in order to write the firmware image to a memory card, but this obviates the potential risks caused by computer/mains instability. All you need is charged batteries in the camera, which the camera could actually check before allowing a firmware upgrade.

And I have similar gripes about the mediocre formatting by the Oly cameras, especially with respect to SM cards. I still believe that this is just an evil plot to protect their panorama feature, but with the unintended result of causing great inconvenience to thousands of users who have their card corrupted by simple things such as Windows XP trying to save thumbnails on the card.

Wake up Olympus !!!

Trouble is, we don't submit it directly to the technician. We enter the olympus service center, sit at the front desk and the counter staff there do a cursory inspection and key in what you request and print out a form. Because of this, I can't directly tell the technician that "I heard the latest firmware stops this problem."

When I submitted it last time, my submission form indicated "viewfinder dirty. Firmware upgrade", and the technician still didn't do it.

I also mentioned the ISO reset issue in my service request, and I got the firmware upgrade.

Inigo Montoya said:

In my case, I had version -74 firmware which has a bug that causes
the camera to forget its settings and default back to AUTO ISO even
when "RESET OFF" is set.

Click to expand...

--

• Eric, http://www.InvisibleRobot.com/