10D long exposure noise like this---------->

david hickey · Mar 12, 2003

That would really bother me if I needed to take that long of an exposure. The longest exposure I ever made with my D60 was about 45 seconds. If I needed a camera that could take 4 minute exposures I would not buy a 10D if all I had to base it's purchase on was those images.

Lucky for me I spend most of my time shooting beautiful women on Southern California beaches so my exposures are usually no longer than 1/200 of a second. I think the 10D should handle that situation OK!

David Iliff · Mar 12, 2003

8 seconds is nothing though... we're talking about 5-15 minute exposures... HUUUGE difference in both processing times and practicality.. how would you like to wait another 15 minutes after taking a shot before being able to use the camera again.. and for that matter, what if you wanted to take sequential night shots and combine them? You wouldn't be able to do it.. thats what made the D60 so good....

Adam-T said:
I've not tried it on a D30, I'd have expected it to be at least as
good as on an S30 which is totally clean and noise free

S30 at max time - Maybe 8 secs, can't remember but it was at it's
maximum time

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=27855

Michel26604 · Mar 12, 2003

Gee, is my lovely D30 being beaten by a 'lowly' 'point-and-shoot' S30?? You're hurting me Adam! Now I really have to get one of them 10D camera's

One without white specks that is.

Seriously, 0-4s exposures are great on a D30, 5-10 is OK, beyond that, it's the real NeatImage stuff...

gr. Michel

Adam-T said:
I've not tried it on a D30, I'd have expected it to be at least as
good as on an S30 which is totally clean and noise free

S30 at max time - Maybe 8 secs, can't remember but it was at it's
maximum time

--

Jack O'Neill · Mar 12, 2003

Obviously, The new image processor in the 10D is not made for long exposures. I was afraid of this when they described the new processor and noise reduction. I think it will do fine for everyday photography, but for long exposure night or astrophotography the 10D is a no go.

I posted last week on this very subject.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4508082

Jack
--
http://www.pbase.com/joneill

Derek Hawkins · Mar 12, 2003

What was he trying to get? The softest looking shots possible? That fellow is a novice IMO.

hawkeye1 said:
Hey, before any of you flame me, look at the pictures by Maurice
and tell me what you think?
my D60 does better than this by far..........(and be sure to look
at the original sized)

http://www.pbase.com/joubert/night

cccnnn · Mar 12, 2003

PRE-prodution version. No manual, no software, no nothing, only a body. Seems like a test body distributed to some photographers for a testdrive. But somehow a deal sold it to him. Obviously not a Canon style long-exposure. Even a D100 can do better than that

So no panic here.

hawkeye1 said:
Hey, before any of you flame me, look at the pictures by Maurice
and tell me what you think?
my D60 does better than this by far..........(and be sure to look
at the original sized)

http://www.pbase.com/joubert/night

OddJob · Mar 12, 2003

Is it just me, or is IMG_0258.jpg (250s f/22.0 iso100 ) worse than IMG_0256.jpg (375s f/22.0 iso100) for the specks.

Neither is any good (awful, in fact) but how come another 125secs of exposure improved things?

Unless, of course, the photo info were muddled up...

hawkeye1 said:
Hey, before any of you flame me, look at the pictures by Maurice
and tell me what you think?
my D60 does better than this by far..........(and be sure to look
at the original sized)

http://www.pbase.com/joubert/night

michael pappas140935 · Mar 12, 2003

Why is Phil Askey not saying anything?

Joo said:
Joo

frankb said:

David Iliff said:

Adam-T said:

Black frame subtraction method used by the D30 and S30 . 100% clean
pics! if Canon had the sense to combine the low noise system in the
D60 with blackframe - the 10D images would be the best for long
exposures as the few stray pixels there are would be gone..

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
regards,

FB

Click to expand...

--

Maybe one day I'll take a decent picture. In the meantime, I'll

blame the equipment.

http://www.pbase.com/jchung/portfolio

Derek Hawkins · Mar 12, 2003

At some shutter duration the 10D/D60 will start to show hot pixels/noise and the only way to address it is via post-processing. While no hot pixels at 30 seconds may be impressive, what happens if 1, 2, 3 or five minutes is what you want for your composition? I would rather wait 2, 4, 6 or 10 minutes and have it done in-camera. Also, what happens if your D60/10D is one of those showing hot pixels after 10 seconds? Exchange it...Send it back to Canon? People will think you're nuts. Both my P&S cameras have BFS and with it they will do better than any D60 in terms of hot pixels/noise at any shutter duration, albeit with twice the time to take the shot. BTW, I also have two D60s. One is slated for my wife.

Adam-T said:
Black frame subtraction method used by the D30 and S30 . 100% clean
pics! if Canon had the sense to combine the low noise system in the
D60 with blackframe - the 10D images would be the best for long
exposures as the few stray pixels there are would be gone..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=27855

Trevor Ash · Mar 12, 2003

I think the red "spot" is lens flare. It's more than one pixel.

All the white pixels on the other image though......not very pleasant.

Michel said:
Joo said:

I agree something has to be wrong. What is with those consistent
specks? The first photo looks great though.

Click to expand...

Ohno! It has a hotpixel! Red, in the building above the car.

michael pappas140935 · Mar 12, 2003

I am really getting sick of the neophytes who accept issues that professional never would. Those of us that owned a D60 and D30, but especially the D60 know how clean it is. I did ten minute shots with no peppered pixels. Canon claimed that the D60 was so clean that they didn't need the black frame system like on the D30. The 10D uses the same god for saken CMOS. So it should be the same image in basic form. I did tons of long exposures and some on are my site. There are ones I did that are longer then the peppered ones posted that's for sure.

Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
[email protected]

warren prasek said:
LOOK AT PHOTOS 2 and 3.

Joo said:

Hot pixels are a fact of life for digital cameras. Otherwise, the
photo does look very clean.

Joo

Click to expand...

michael pappas140935 · Mar 12, 2003

Derek take a look at my site ( http://www.pbase.com/arrfilms ). there are long exposures that go on for many minutes with the D60. I never cleaned one image at all. They came clean out of tha camera like that.

Here is Phil askey's D60 long test and then the Niko D100. See this is the difference, and why I picked the D60..

And the peppered Nikon D100

Derek Hawkins said:
Adam-T said:

Black frame subtraction method used by the D30 and S30 . 100% clean
pics! if Canon had the sense to combine the low noise system in the
D60 with blackframe - the 10D images would be the best for long
exposures as the few stray pixels there are would be gone..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=27855

Click to expand...

Michel26604 · Mar 12, 2003

Could be, it's a bit 'largish' for a hot pixel. Then again, it can be seen on some of the church-posts too, and I'm not the only one that noticed them.

gr M.

Trevor Ash said:
All the white pixels on the other image though......not very pleasant.

Michel said:

Joo said:

I agree something has to be wrong. What is with those consistent
specks? The first photo looks great though.

Click to expand...

Ohno! It has a hotpixel! Red, in the building above the car.

Click to expand...

Derek Hawkins · Mar 12, 2003

Agreed, not too many but you are missing something....All D60s are not "created" equally. One of mine has no HPs up to about a minute, the other has HPs over 10 seconds. I wouldn't ever want to use the latter for long exposures but if someone ever heard me complain about HPs over 10 seconds they would laugh at me because that is generally considered excellent. However, what most people assume is that all cameras have BFS to resort to. My Nikon CP5700, with BFS, will produce completely noise free images up to 3 to 5 minutes but without BFS it has HPs over 1 second. So which would be better from a noise only perspective to use for long exposures, the CP5700 with BFS or the D60 with HPs over 10 seconds? Clearly the CP5700. If the D60 also had BFS to resort to then it would be a no brainer.

michael pappas said:
Here is Phil askey's D60 long test and then the Niko D100. See
this is the difference, and why I picked the D60..

And the peppered Nikon D100

Derek Hawkins said:

Adam-T said:

Black frame subtraction method used by the D30 and S30 . 100% clean
pics! if Canon had the sense to combine the low noise system in the
D60 with blackframe - the 10D images would be the best for long
exposures as the few stray pixels there are would be gone..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=27855

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Stephen Waits · Mar 12, 2003

you've seen samples from ONE camera and you're freaking out like schoolboy in the arms of a h0rny catholic priest.

RELAX!

--Steve

Isaac Sibson · Mar 12, 2003

Just to prove it, here's my Coolpix 700 on an 8sec exposure:

--
Full Frame user!

EOS 3 + Nikon Coolscan III

Adam-T · Mar 12, 2003

The Coolpix 700 is a plastic stripped down version of one of the BEST digicams ever made - the Coolpix 950 - I used that 950 in preference to the E10 for Landscapes because of far lower noise and better infinity focus .. It took me a LONG time to find a pocket Digicam which trounces the 950 at most things (the S30) and even then it's no where near as good for Macros and the 950 AWB is almost as good as the frelling 1D !!!!

While we're on the subject, How good is the 700 for Macros, does it do that 5mm trick like the 950 ?? I know someone with a mint one for sale for £100 and I could buy it for my mother (Who will pass her noisy Fuji 2400 on to my aunt) and I get to use it for Macros

)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=27855

james64808 · Mar 12, 2003

Just in case that hawkeye1's 10D is faulty some how..

can anyone else with 10D do a 5-10 min shots at ISO100, 1600 and 3200??

I want to get the 10D mainly for astrophotography, therefore will need to shoot at high ISO and long exposure most of the time.

Thanks!

John Davis · Mar 12, 2003

It's quite possible that when you reach 1 minute exposures you may start seeing hot pixels. These are not TE-cooled sensors for astrophotography.

BTW, Maurice's example can easily be cleaned up using automatic hot pixel tools - QImage does a good job at that (even w/o a drak frame).

John

hawkeye1 said:
Hey, before any of you flame me, look at the pictures by Maurice
and tell me what you think?
my D60 does better than this by far..........(and be sure to look
at the original sized)

http://www.pbase.com/joubert/night

Mishkin · Mar 12, 2003

D60, 16-35L, 480s, f/16, ISO100, +2 stops at conversion (frame was too dark)

Full size: http://www.pbase.com/image/14227785/original

There are stuck pixels, but not soooooo many as on photos 2 and 3 at the link below.

The temperature was a little below freezing temp -- maybe that's the difference?

hawkeye1 said:
Hey, before any of you flame me, look at the pictures by Maurice
and tell me what you think?
my D60 does better than this by far..........(and be sure to look
at the original sized)

http://www.pbase.com/joubert/night

10D long exposure noise like this---------->

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