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gary ng
Guest
I was refering the use of FEL .
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G3 vs 10D
- Thread starter Jay Gerzog
- Start date
A few things to consider:
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http://www.pbase.com/dnewell228/
- The 10D does not include a lens, so the low price is a little misleading unless you already have EOS lens(es)
- The major price cut of the 10D compared to the D60 tells me that Canon has figured out how to efficiently mass-produce high-quality CMOS sensors. This should be a clear signal that the price of future digital SLR cameras will continue to drop even further. There is rumour of a sub-$1000 Canon digital SLR later this year.
- If I were you (and had more self-disipline than I actually do!) I would wait six months and see what the market is like then. If you can't wait, I would recommend buying a compact, less expensive camera, maybe even a 2 MP unit, to learn the digital photography basics. You can use this knowledge when you step up later.
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http://www.pbase.com/dnewell228/
You can buy a 50mm lens for $50. You can also get many lenses used for not a lot of money. Cetainly this adds to the total cost, but not everyone needs to invest another $1000 on lenses.
Dan Ferrin
Senior Member
I know that its just my own interests and preferences, but I rarely shoot wide angle, but if I have a need to, I'm not getting rid of my film cameras and may be keeping the G2. With the film cameras, I have the 20-35mm zoom, which even on the 10D will give me 32mm on the wide end if I need it. And by the way, I would rather have the CMOS in the 10D than any full frame CCD. Again, personal taste, but I love the image quality of the CMOS sensor.
Dan
I must be a photographer - I keep running around in circles of confusion.
Dan
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I must be a photographer - I keep running around in circles of confusion.
Gediminas 8
Senior Member
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Well, I've been waiting for an affordable digital camera of sufficient quality for prints of up to 8x10 or something like that, plus a set of manual options. It should be a compact (P&S) type of camera so that I can carry it with me more often than I do with my film gear (=almost exclusively on holidays). D-SLRs have been - and still are - a little over my budget. I would also prefer to spend my hard-earned cash on a full-frame model.
Nevertheless, I like the 10D despite of the cropping factor, and there are things I still dislike about the G3: comparatively bulky size, inferior macro mode, just 4x zoom, 4 mp and the price. Not to mention the general shortfalls of compact digicams like shutter lag and enormous DOF.
As I said: the G3 is one of the best in its class, but I just hate to invest into something which I know to be limited in a number of ways. An S45/50 would seem a better interim solution - simply because they are cheaper - if not for the absence of a hotshoe.
I am not willing to do so. Much as I like Sony products, cameras included, I prefer not to fund their proprietary technologies.
Hi,
You can hardly compare this two cameras, they are not in the same "class"!
G3 is a compact-camera with features like a DSLR, but it is not a DSLR. The price is even half of the 10D.
10D is ok, when you want a DSLR with removable lens (and think of it, you have always to carry the equipment with)!
So, you have to decide for what purpose to you need your camera!
BTW, you can't buy a "many years best camera" , because the DC's will be better year for year. So, your DC will be "old" after 1 year!
If you want to shoot pics digital, don't wait for the best DC, buy one of the good DC's on the market and have fun!
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andy
G3+380EX
If portability is an important factor, than that rules out an SLR regardless of the performance or price. The G3 has a very extensive set of manual controls and capabilities, plus a few features not available at all on any SLR such as the LCD viewfinder (and a swiveling one at that), not to mention a 35-140mm zom lens with f2/f3 aperture. You'd be hard pressed to find such a fast (bright) zoom for an SLR at an affordable price.
That would give you a huge advantage if you want to use wide angle lenses. But again, you're mising two different needs - SLR vs, compact.
It's not bulky considering the features. You have a wide choice of more compact models but they all have slow lenses and poor battery life, among other limitations.
Well, you don't have any macro mode at all on an SLR until you buy a lens with such a capability. The G3 also has the option of accepting closeup lenses.
Once again, show me a camera of equal or smaller size with a longer zoom. Doesn't exist. You'd have to go with a much larger camera like the F717. But you can always buy a relatively inexpensive accessory lens to significantly increase its focal length.
I think the image quality at 4MP is excellent for the needs of most people. A 5MP camera doesn't offer significantly better quality. The main advantage of a lower priced SLR is not resolution, but the large CCD size which permits use of higher ISO speeds with no noise.
Price? Where else can you get the functionality of the G3 for $600?
Actually, the bigegst shortfalls in my opinion are poor autofocus and limited ISO speeds due to noise, then followed by shutter lag. The added depth of field can be good as well as bad, depending on the situation.
You haven't told us what you want to use the camera for that would make the G3 a poor choice. Do you want to take sports photos?
I prefer not to either, but you should be practical about things instead of stubborn. Think about how much memory you want. If you can live with 256MB, then you can get a couple of 128MB Memory Sticks for a reasonable price. Not a perfect solution, but then nothing is. If a compact camera with full manual control and a flash hot shoe are your target, the V1 does seem tempting I think (pending Phil's review).
Gediminas 8
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I agree. I guess I should have stated my needs more clearly. I am looking for a digital camera to use before I get myself a D-SLR which I am planning anyway. It would also serve as my second, 'portable' camera yet would ideally be as flexible as possible. I already have a film EOS and some lenses for those really important shots.
I agree, but because I am not exactly pitting the G3 against a D-SLR (but rather against other P&S digicams as explained above) I am not disputing the above points either.
Agreed (although I already have access to an EF 100/2.8 Macro which I can use at any time). But what irritates me most is that some other point-and-shoots in the same (or even lower) price class offer macro superior to that of the G3 which would otherwise be near-perfect. The Coolpix 4500 springs to mind first, of course. Why can't Canon pay a little more attention to this persistent drawback of their cameras to cure it once and for all? Somehow I didn't get the impression that the (optional) close-up lens for the G3 is a radical improvement to its macro capability.
The only decent macro pictures I've seen from a Canon Gx were those shot with a G2 and an inverted 50 mm lens on a self-made adapter.
Have never handled (or seen) them in real life, but how big are the Olympus C7xx series cameras? Fuji S602 (6x) also seems to be pretty similar in size.
Of course I realise that any zoom lens beyond 3x is at risk of compromising image quality, and therefore am prepared to sacrifice a little of the range for the sake of the latter.
1.4x, is it? But did I get it right - does the use of this teleconverter limit the G3 lens to a fixed position at its maximum range? In other words, can I stil zoom all the way from 35 mm to the maximum distance offered by the teleconverter or does it obstruct the lens movement/FOV in any way?
I agree that this latest price is not much (at least by US standards, not necessarily where I live where it is ALSO much more expensive), especially when you compare it to what the camera cost just a short while ago. Nevertheless, I personally would like my purchase for this amount to be closer to perfection than what it is now
Sports - hardly. My main photographic interests are travel, people (including portraits), landscapes, macro...
But I might want to take the occasional action snapshot, such as at the dance class which I attend. I used a borrowed Coolpix 995 for that purpose recently, and hated its slow focus (often on the wrong places) and wrecked composition because of this, even though the lighting was good with rays of daylight falling through the tall windows of the gym.
I understand that the G3 has superior AF and lesser lag than this camera.
Right you are
I would want to take my camera on my travels so 512MB or even greater storage capacity would seem more appropriate.
And again, Memory Sticks cost even more here in Eastern Europe than in the US, which makes selecting the most competitive format even more important.
I am interested in the review as well but it seems now that I should be getting the G3 anyway
I agree, to a point. I just don't consider DSLRs have reached a position where they rival their 35mm counterparts for the money. For me personally they cost too much to justify the outlay considering they are not used to make my living, and until the price comes down cameras like the G series are filling a viable niche. It just strikes me that we aren't too far away from very affordable quality DSLRs but at this precise moment you must surely agree that they are priced with the professional or VERY serious amateur in mind, i.e. not consumer items like the lower to mid range film SLRs available. My film SLR is no doubt very out of date, lacking bells and whistles features, but the film SLR market settled down along time ago to the point where many models are within the reach of the amateur whilst providing the important features and (above all) image quality sufficient to make most users' purchase a long term solution.
A D60/10D CMOS sensor in a (roughly) G3 sized package with a high quality built in lens and manual features currently offered in a G3. Price it at say $1200 or so. Although not the versatility of an SLR, still the low noise, high quality image capability that the sensor offers. Don't you think it would be a hot item? They would get my money.
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gary ng
Guest
That would mean a new lens and at this price, it would overlap with the DSLR lines. What would be the advantage for such a model over DSLR ?
If it price at say 800, I would blink my eye.
If it price at say 800, I would blink my eye.
Oh, I know. The price is arbitrary. Still many consider the G3 to be superior to the $1200 Nikon 5700 in many respects. The advantages would be all the advantages the G3 has over DSLR's including (relatively speaking) portability, not having to carry big, bulky lens, etc. Of course many disadvantages of a consumer point and shoot digicam would still apply, such as shutter lag and slower autofocus. Still for such as myself and I would assume many others, I don't often shoot in situations that require the speed and versatility advantages of an SLR but if only could get that low noise image quality.
Robert D. McGee
Leading Member
As of right now, I stated that I would probably get a DSLR within a year or so. I also stated that I will keep my G3 - they serve different niches and complement each other (at least, for me).
All of that said, I keep hearing talk of a G+ with more megapixels. Frankly, for this level of camera, I am plenty pleased with the four megapixels that this camera provides. The picture quality thru 13x19 is excellent and certainly I cannot find ANY criticism of a properly exposed and edited 8.5x11 photo shot with this camera. I print my own, as many/most of us do and I have little to complain about when we discuss image quality. Larger files create problems of their own and I believe, for this class of camera, that four GOOD megapixels works quite well. I am presently trying to successfully shoot a magazine cover and if I am rejected, it won't be because I am shooting at 4.0 megapixels - it will be because my image lacks artistry!! In other words, it will be a lack of photographer, not of equipment!!
FWIW
Dale53
All of that said, I keep hearing talk of a G+ with more megapixels. Frankly, for this level of camera, I am plenty pleased with the four megapixels that this camera provides. The picture quality thru 13x19 is excellent and certainly I cannot find ANY criticism of a properly exposed and edited 8.5x11 photo shot with this camera. I print my own, as many/most of us do and I have little to complain about when we discuss image quality. Larger files create problems of their own and I believe, for this class of camera, that four GOOD megapixels works quite well. I am presently trying to successfully shoot a magazine cover and if I am rejected, it won't be because I am shooting at 4.0 megapixels - it will be because my image lacks artistry!! In other words, it will be a lack of photographer, not of equipment!!
FWIW
Dale53
jscher2000
Senior Member
Well, first you need to price out all the parts of any SLR investment. It's likely to be something like $600 vs. $2000. Go to the store and put a lens you like on some other dSLR like a Nikon D100 and feel the weight. Can you live with that, or it something that will gather dust because it's such a big deal to lug it around? I rented a D100 for a 3-day weekend and found it blindingly fast compared with a G3, but also puzzlingly complex to use (this could be a Nikon problem) and immensely heavy with a long lens (5x optical equivalent). Plus I looked even geekier than usual; no coolness factor whatsoever. So I have a general sense of what a 10D would be like and frankly it doesn't fit my lifestyle. I lust for the speed, but don't want the other compromises. Your lifestyle may vary.
jscher2000
Senior Member
They want your money for the very profitable lenses, flash units, and so forth. ;-) I'm not sure there's going to be another generation of "sealed lens" SLR-like cameras (e.g., Sony 7x7 / DiMAGE 7 / Nikon 5700 / Olympus E-20), as they fall into a seemingly narrow niche of the market.
Hi Jay,
A point to consider for your case is the type of usage. I know some friends owning dslr and slr also have smaller compact cameras they use casually while on holiday. Just in case they get too lazy to lug around a huge lens and bulky camera.
I just got my G3 not long ago. Also think the 10D is great. However its still pretty expansive considering the lenses you have to buy. But the price of DSLR is really coming down and a new price level will be reached soon. Hence, I will keep my G3 and start looking around at year end to see what dslr is around.
In the meantime, the manual functions on the G3 is very similar to the Canon slr and dslr. It also uses the same battery and can use the ETTL functions of the speedlites. This means that whatever I learn from my G3 will be useful on a canon dslr. The accesories can also be reused. I am using my G3 with a 420ex speedlite and that combo is already pretty heavy.
Whatever your choice Jay, remember to shoot more. Coz the more you shoot, the cheaper your cost per shot and hence the more your gain out of your equipment.
Gd luck!
A point to consider for your case is the type of usage. I know some friends owning dslr and slr also have smaller compact cameras they use casually while on holiday. Just in case they get too lazy to lug around a huge lens and bulky camera.
I just got my G3 not long ago. Also think the 10D is great. However its still pretty expansive considering the lenses you have to buy. But the price of DSLR is really coming down and a new price level will be reached soon. Hence, I will keep my G3 and start looking around at year end to see what dslr is around.
In the meantime, the manual functions on the G3 is very similar to the Canon slr and dslr. It also uses the same battery and can use the ETTL functions of the speedlites. This means that whatever I learn from my G3 will be useful on a canon dslr. The accesories can also be reused. I am using my G3 with a 420ex speedlite and that combo is already pretty heavy.
Whatever your choice Jay, remember to shoot more. Coz the more you shoot, the cheaper your cost per shot and hence the more your gain out of your equipment.
Gd luck!
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gary ng
Guest
With a D60/10D sensor, you can't expect the Gs to be the current size. The advantage of small sensor is the small lens, thus overall size and weight. A lens of what G3 has now suitable for a D60/10D sensor would be much bigger and heavier. Just check for the 'L' lens with f2.0 zoom, there isn't such beast.
film processing and printing already paid off for my G1 in 1 year. So therefore, the argument that a Digital SLR is aiming at professional and serious amateur due to its "high" prices is pointless. With a $2000 spend on a DSLR w/ couple nice lenses, one can fully recover this cost w/i 2 years just due to the saving from film processing and printing alone. Now to make this happens, one must also resist the temptation of wanting to upgrade whenever a replacement model comes out!
it seems alot if you look at it from the standpoint of the initial outlay of cash. But over 2-3 years, it will pay off.
Thang.
http://www.pbase.com/tnt_imaging
it seems alot if you look at it from the standpoint of the initial outlay of cash. But over 2-3 years, it will pay off.
Thang.
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http://www.pbase.com/tnt_imaging
Eloff
New member
Jay, I found myself in EXACTLY the same dilemma, and at about the same time, except that I have already owned several Digital Cameras, the latest acquisition being the G1, so, as you can see, time to upgrade.
Well, It's VERY EASY to LUST after the D10 ... I have fought mighty mental and emotional battles with myself over this one since it was previewed by Phil. My Wife even OK'd the purchase (which for most of us married guys is a MAJOR hurdle to clear) and all was set ... but now "I finally had to cross the rubicon" ... easier said than done! If I purchased this D10 and a couple of half-decent lenses, I would be looking at $2,000US (at least) while the G3 was now being discounted to the high $500's, often including S&H!
I guess, it's kind of like lusting after Nicole Kidman but, wisely, deciding to marry that really lovely brunette ... the girl next door. With her you will be able to go many places and truly enjoy life, with Nicole you'd be VERY limited, since she's quite picky about where you are going to take her, and oh yes, did I mention that She's "HIGH MAINTENANCE"?
My continuing experience is to HOLD onto my money and upgrade every 3 years or so, thus saving money, getting PERFECTLY lovely cameras and still spending less over 10 years and I would not feel bad taking my G3 to the beach!
Now this is where my "Nicole Kidman" comparison is a little dangerous. DO NOT trade in the "Girl next door" every 3 years or so! Ironically that advise seems to apply to the STARS ...
I cannot classify myself as adept enough at photography to justify buying a D10 ... but damn, it sure is SEXY! I will still be learning nuances of the G3 in 5 years from now, by which time DSLR's will be priced at around $700, and I would have spent a total of
What value would I place on 5 years of photos taken with a G3 that would never have seen the light of day if I had to lug a D10 and accesories everywhere I would tend to go? Well, there would be a lot of memories without pictures. I suppose, there would be a few lost images of action shots without owning the D10 too, but far fewer ... I would venture to guess.
So Jay, to cut a long story short, I bought the G3 at Ecost for $598 which includes free S&H (SURFACE)
Some 5 years from now, maybe, I will buy the Canon D777 with 20MegaPixels and a Foveon-type sensor, though at the current rate of change, that may not be hi-tech enough! In the meanwhile, my G3 will reproduce lovely memories ... everywhere I go, as my G1 has done.
Regards,
Ian.
Morris Getz
Well-known member
The G3 (and other digitals) is essentially a dSLR! I love the real time and accurately framed image on the screen and would hate to give it up, even with its faults (and those are few on the G3!). I'm a long time conventional SLR user (Olympus OM) and I can never go back to looking through a conventional viewfinder at eye level. My photographic vision (creativity) has improved dramatically because the camera has been freed from eye level.
Yes, I want a more responsive (focusing speed and accuracy) and versitle (focal length, macro) camera than the G3 is at present, (and hope the future will bring these features in a similarly sized package to the G3) but even given its limitations, I have never enjoyed the art or action of photographing as much as I do now. My pictures show it too.
Don't others feel the same?
Yes, I want a more responsive (focusing speed and accuracy) and versitle (focal length, macro) camera than the G3 is at present, (and hope the future will bring these features in a similarly sized package to the G3) but even given its limitations, I have never enjoyed the art or action of photographing as much as I do now. My pictures show it too.
Don't others feel the same?
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