D4 vs 1Dx (Imaging Resource), RAW, ACR, 6400-12800

Started Sep 4, 2012 | Discussions thread
Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 30,560
Re: D4 vs 1Dx (Imaging Resource), RAW, ACR, 6400-12800

bobn2 wrote:

Lance B wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Yes, but it yields a silly result - one where a camera can appear better in low light simply by gaming the meter to give more exposure at some set ISO. that really doesn't help, because if you need 1/30 sec, say, you'll raise the ISO till you get it, even if that results in a different setting on different cameras, so this really isn't a good tets of low light capability.

That is not what I am saying. Gees, you like to argue against a point I am not making.

I'm arguing against a point you used to be making. Your point seems to be abit flexible, as you discover that you hadn't thought it through.

No, I'm not changing my point at all. I think you are being caught up in too many of the theories you are reading and miss the point of how people actually use their cameras, and this is what I am getting at. To get "correct" exposure it is not only aperture and shutter, but also ISO that needs to be used in the equation, otherwise we'd all be getting images too bright or too dark. I know where you are coming from, but this is not how people use their equipment.

The point is, if a camera's aperture is accurate and the shutter speed is accurate and the ISO reading is accurate then this gives us an accurate reading of the lighting level. You cannot know that lighting level simply by using aperture and shutter speed, you need a third parameter. That is the point I am making.

So, if the ISO's of the tested camera's are slightly different and/or one or both is inaccurate, as I have been saying, then the testers will need to adjust one or the other's shutter/aperture combo to get similar looking test photographs. I would suggest that they use the same aperture so that DOF stays the same, but use a slightly different shutter speed.

At the end of the day, every time I see someone post an example of "how well x camera does at a particular ISO", they post a photo at the ISO that they are trying to prove is good (and possibly another photo in comparison to some other camera at the same ISO), not at some arbitary shutter/aperture combo and then dialling up the ISO to suit. I mean, even DP Review does it here, their comparos are at set ISO's as a comparison .

People do not go usually round seeing if their camera is better at noise than another camera in their day to day photography,

certainly, but that rather is the point of things like the 'comparometer' (the clue is in the name).

No fooling, but this is not how people generally use cameras or how many compare their cameras. As I say, even DP Review compares camera's at certain ISO's.

they generally set ISO, then use aperture priority, set their desired aperture and then let the camera decide the exposure by setting the shutter speed automtically. Or, they set ISO, then use shutter priority, set shutter speed and let the camera decide aperture.

Yes, they do. But if they do that they are easy pickings for unscrupulous manufacturers gaming the metering to give better 'high ISO' simply by making their 'high ISO' lower than the competitions for the same ISO setting. In fact REI allows them to do this even if the ISO measures the same on a grey card . Not to say that tehy would, except there are examples where they clearly have. The Canon G10 to G11 comes to mind, where much of the apparent improvement was due to the meter setting higher exposures.

This is why we have people testing cameras, like DxO Mark, DP review et al, to test cameras and keep them "honest" and generally, cameras are quite accurate in this department. The thing is it is a moot point as people generally use cameras in the way I described above.

Some set ISO and then set the aperture and shutter manually. At the end of the day, most I dare say, set ISO and then set the exposure accordingly. This is probably why testers test the way they do, rightly or wrongly, as it sort of reflects what people do in the field.

But it doesn't reflect the comparative performance of the cameras in low light. You might as well say do all tests in scene modes because most users use those.

See what I wrote above.

I can see where you are coming from, but it just isn't how people and testers seem to do things. I do not think we are going to agree.

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