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opticsguy

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I am in need to make action panoramics with available light inside buildings. Most panos require anywhere from 5 to 9 frames to accomplish the goal.

The only way I can figure out how to do this is with multiple cameras, all identical with the same settings and all tripped at the same moment. (Expensive!!)

The subjects are moving in the room both close and distant.

I am now using one camera to accomplish this task with rather limited results, so looking for options.

Your comments and ideas appreciated.
 
opticsguy said:
I am in need to make action panoramas with available light inside buildings. Most panos require anywhere from 5 to 9 frames to accomplish the goal.
Click to expand...
3 frames are usually "good enough".
opticsguy said:
The only way I can figure out how to do this is with multiple cameras, all identical with the same settings and all tripped at the same moment. (Expensive!!)
Click to expand...
Physically "impossible". There will always be a minor delay, very minor delay from 1/100th to 1/1000th but significant enough for the action.
opticsguy said:
The subjects are moving in the room both close and distant.

I am now using one camera to accomplish this task with rather limited results, so looking for options.
Click to expand...
Here is a pano with somebody (June 2012) and some very, very minor movement. I had to remove the ghosting.



You can "monkey" as much as you want, but the only real answer is to properly light your subjects. You have 2 solutions:
  1. 2 sets of photos. One without the person/persons, the other with flash on the person/persons. Then layer the 2 sets of photos in PS.
  2. No HDR, but many, many photos and each one is properly light for its own section, extend the canvas, then layer everything in its own position in PS.
--
Thanks
http://foto-biz.com
The Business of Being a Photographer -- Lightroom Q&A
 
I have no ability to control any lighting in the varaible situations I will be working in and in my limited experience with panoramic photography, I really need much more than 3 frames. Flash is not an option. it is also not possible to photograph the people in action and PS then into the room, does not work in this situation. Maybe this is simply not a realistic possibility??

Thanks, again.
 
there are a number of special reflector lenses which may work for your situation.

try Googling 'single-shot panoramic lens'
 
I would think a setup with multiple cameras sounds okay for this situation.

Only problem with that is the center from the sensors won't be from the same point. I can imagine with a lot of cameras that this could be a small problem because the perspective will shift slightly. I worked with a custom plate I made for 5 dslrs to shoot video (rented 5 5d mkii's and bought 5 50mm f1.8's). Mounted the plate on a big sachtler video tripod, worked just fine. So you wouldn't need a series of tripods, just one (easy leveling all the cameras!). One plate, fixed mounting plates and cameras with primes overlapping. And a remote shutter to operate all cameras simultaneously. Such a setup would be easy to move around also.

Is it like a 180 pano shot or something like that? And why the high resolution, will it be a very large print? Otherwise maybe a medium format can give you the resolution you need in one frame (rent it for a couple of days).
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/60896327@N07/sets/
 
alexander kooistra said:
I would think a setup with multiple cameras sounds okay for this situation.

Only problem with that is the center from the sensors won't be from the same point. I can imagine with a lot of cameras that this could be a small problem because the perspective will shift slightly. I worked with a custom plate I made for 5 dslrs to shoot video (rented 5 5d mkii's and bought 5 50mm f1.8's). Mounted the plate on a big sachtler video tripod, worked just fine. So you wouldn't need a series of tripods, just one (easy leveling all the cameras!). One plate, fixed mounting plates and cameras with primes overlapping. And a remote shutter to operate all cameras simultaneously. Such a setup would be easy to move around also.

Is it like a 180 pano shot or something like that? And why the high resolution, will it be a very large print? Otherwise maybe a medium format can give you the resolution you need in one frame (rent it for a couple of days).
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60896327@N07/sets/
Click to expand...
Having multiple cameras should not become a problem if there is no close object or if there is only one plane where the subjects are. But Indoors with subjects close and far there will be problems with the stitching. The more details on the close/first plan, the more problems there will be.

But we haven't seen any current photo so I'm only speculating at this point.

--
Thanks
http://foto-biz.com
The Business of Being a Photographer -- Lightroom Q&A
 
Hi,

sorry but I don't understand the point: if you want a pano it means stitching several individual images to get one. If you do that in PS or ICE doesn't matter but means in any case computational image manipulation - but according to your statement this is off consideration. So the option would be to have a movement sequenced in a single shot with long exposure time using a strobe for having the main subject iluminated along its course in several moments. But flash / strobe wouldn't be a possibility as you're commenting. Hmmh. It's getting hard to imagine to accomplish this. You could use a high resolution / high frame rate video cam and use the single frames but even these have to be manipulated in PS or another editing software to join them in one image only.

Are you thinking of something similar to this?





--
Cheers,
Michael Fritzen
 
Thanks everyone.

I have been making panos for about 6 months as an amateur and exploring the possibilities. I thought my requirements were clear, but a more clear description will help. I am using ICE as my pano stich software.

I need to image up to or exceeeding 180 degrees. The subject is ballroom dancing, with multiple couples on the dance floor, thus the need for a one exposure pano. These dancers move FAST!! also wanting to encompass the audience to complete the atmosphere of what we see as observers at these dance shows and competitions.

I have found that unless the subject is very close such as flowers, etc, rotation on the optical axis is not so critical. This is only a hobby and I often make enlargements and give them away.

I will continue to think and search and appreciate everyones comments here.
 
Realistically I think your best bet is an 8mm Fish-eye on a Full Frame body for circular panorama.

With a camera that can handle incredibly high ISO speeds and a decently fast Fish-eye lens, you can get 1 wide panorama or even make a 360° navigate-able panorama.

At work we use a custom-built rotator that ensures the lenses are in the same place on opposite sides. If you do it by hand you might still need to take 3 pictures to account for the fact that you won't perfectly get 2 hemispheres lined up by hand.

It could also be possible to have the camera facing upwards towards a reflective sphere ... this is very theoretical and not realistic but I've always wanted to try it. It'd give you a cylindrical pano of sorts.

Other than that, systems with multiple sensors facing in all directions are made by Google, if you have $30-40,000 to spend.

There's also the ball camera but I don't think it's in production yet: http://jonaspfeil.de/ballcamera .
opticsguy said:
I am in need to make action panoramics with available light inside buildings. Most panos require anywhere from 5 to 9 frames to accomplish the goal.

The only way I can figure out how to do this is with multiple cameras, all identical with the same settings and all tripped at the same moment. (Expensive!!)

The subjects are moving in the room both close and distant.

I am now using one camera to accomplish this task with rather limited results, so looking for options.

Your comments and ideas appreciated.
Click to expand...
--
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Hi again,

as far as I understand what you want to do is achievable in a single shot only with a UWA lens or a fisheye lens (with high MP DSLR with enough leeway for cropping off bottom and top).

The main point is that you want to capture synchronized movement over a larger angle of view. This is impossible to do in a multi-shot attempt since shooting will be sequenced in time. Even with some motorized / automated device that would advance the camera to the next pano position (fairly quickly) there would be at least a time shift between the shots of -being optimistic- some seconds or so.

A camera with a sweep panorama functions (Sony) might be an option but I haven't tested it yet so I don't know how the movement has to be performed to get an useable result. In this function the camera takes shots in a very fast burst which are then stitched together in-camera. But my guess is that even that fast burst would be too long for a synchronized capture of fast moving people.

--
Cheers,
Michael Fritzen
 
Hi,

let's imagine for a moment budget wasn't a problem to get that shot. Then the job could be done by several identic cameras equipped with identic lenses (perhaps short tele primes) which have to be set for the same focus plan, same exposure parametres and finally sufficient overlapping in relation to the coverage of the neighbour camera.
All cameras should be fire in exactly the same moment.

As far as I can imagine, people have to be arranged in an arc and the cameras in an inner arc with the same centre point.
--
Cheers,
Michael Fritzen
 
Couple options:
  • Start photographing where the action is in the middle of the frame so when you move hopefully the action will not be near the area of blending and cause ghosting problems. You can reduce this further by using an ultra wide angle or fisheye lens, so that hopefully you'd only need 3 shots to stitch.
  • Rig 3 cameras up with ultra wide angle or fish eye lenses use either a specialized cable release or a pocket wizard to fire them together. There may be some delay between firings but it can be reduced by half pressing to "wake up" any camera that has fallen asleep. The other problem with this is you're more prone to paralax errors as the cameras will not share the same nodal point.
  • Use a catadioptric or other mirror based single-shot panorama lens. This allows you to point the camera up and capture 360 degrees around you at once. Down side is the resolution of these lenses is usually pretty low. Good for QTVR/Virtual-Tours/Google Maps but a print is going to look pretty bad.
  • Rent something like a Seitz Roundshot D3. It's a rotating scaning camera. It's not an instantaneous photo, but it continually scans around the room in a few seconds. And the speed is dependant on resolution, so if you are ok with a 7MP image you can do it very fast, if you need 66MP it will be a bit slower. They also have a camera with a higher MP sensor than can produce 500MP images. It can also simultaneously capture HDR information (32 bit capture). Downside: very expensive.
opticsguy said:
I am in need to make action panoramics with available light inside buildings. Most panos require anywhere from 5 to 9 frames to accomplish the goal.

The only way I can figure out how to do this is with multiple cameras, all identical with the same settings and all tripped at the same moment. (Expensive!!)

The subjects are moving in the room both close and distant.

I am now using one camera to accomplish this task with rather limited results, so looking for options.

Your comments and ideas appreciated.
Click to expand...
--
~K
 
funi X100/X1-pro can do this and i think one of the 4/3 cameras can as well (sweep panorama is their name for it if i recall correctly).

another option that i've seen in used in real estate virtual tours put the camera on it's back and a funky conical mirror over the lens then their software is used to make the image 'pannable' on a computer later. Not sure if this would make a print or not.
--
Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. -Henry Ford
 
A Fisheye lens on a high resolution camera (21MP+) and using something like PT lens to correct the optical distortion wouldn't be sufficient?
--
~K
 
"" A Fisheye lens on a high resolution camera (21MP+) and using something like PT lens to correct the optical distortion wouldn't be sufficient? ""

Another possible solution, just exploring my options.

thank you
 






I understand your problem, in Houston this year I put together a 6 panel panoramic of thte race site at the Shell Eco-Marathon and then decided that I needed some cars in it. Fortunately the cars moved faifly slow so I photographed them individually in their places with the same lense and focal length and then layered them in, photo has been blown up to 3x4 feet and you can't tell. Now I am trying to accomplish the same thing with the local stock car track but the fast moving cars make the earlier process more difficult. Everyone I have talked to about the problem suggest multople identicle cameras, I don't think the wife will understand the need for 5 more Canon 5DMKII's for one shot.
 
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