Top 10 Minolta legacy lenses!

Started Apr 17, 2012 | Discussions thread
cyainparadise Veteran Member • Posts: 5,577
Re: No, 'bokeh' is a Japanese term

Then I guess non-Japanese people don't care about the taste of their food either, as there is no German, French, or English word comparable to 'umami'.

Your logic is faulty. Just because there is no comparable word for bokeh, doesn't mean that 'Occidentals' didn't care about the non-focused area of a picture.

And, since you brought up Pictorialism, if you look at the second definition below, how do you get an "artificial romanticized pictorial qualities" without creamy bokeh?

1: the use or creation of pictures or visual images

2: a movement or technique in photography emphasizing artificial often romanticized pictorial qualities

If you take two pictures with the same "resolution and sharpness", but with different boken, and ask people to choose the one they like better, I can almost guarantee you that the one with smoother bokeh would be preferred.

And you might want to read Ken Rockwell's article on bokeh-

or, the Zeiss article on depth of field and bokeh listed in Ken's article- $File/CLN35_Bokeh_en.pdf

Apparently, you don't understand bokeh, so you dismiss it as something new, or as something only the Japanese care about.

pako wrote:

FYI, we use the "Japanese term" because Occident never really cared about the quality of unfocussed areas of the images until 20 years ago or so -and even Japanese makers didn't start rounding apertures until 20 years ago or so... That's why you don't have an equivalent term in German, French or English.

The qualities searched by western lens makers were (are) resolution and sharpness -and this since the end of Pictorialism (thanks, Mr Stieglitz...). Bokeh didn't count until the Japanese brought their input.

Don't take me wrong: smooth bokeh is nice to have. But it is just one more quality on lens design. And I don't believe the most important...


cyainparadise wrote:

Just as 'umami' is a Japanese word, that is used to describe a taste sensation that can't quite be explained, 'bokeh' is a Japanese word to describe the 'feel' of the out of focus areas of a picture.

You cannot say you like, or don't like, bokeh, as all lenses have 'bokeh'. You can say you like the boken of one lens over that of another lens. In order to not have boken, everything in your picture would need to be in focus.

There is nothing wrong with liking resolution, as it it is quantifiable, unlike boken which isn't.

pako wrote:

You might like bokeh, or not. German school prefer resolution, nothing wrong about that, right?

With all due respect, I prefer more scientific "rates" than Dyxum results.



cyainparadise wrote:

So, we know David likes the 1997 version of the lens. Would he say the same thing if he tried the older version? The RS version beat the Xi version by a wide margin, and scored slightly better than the '94 non-Xi version, on Dyxum-

Anyway, the Xi version is crippled on any non Xi body. And, that is the main reason I took issue with the individual who first brought it up. As the topic wasn't 'Best Bargain' lens.

pako wrote:

design is the same in the 3 versions of this lens. "improvement" in bokeh is subjective. only newer coatings can make a difference.

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