D5100 focus questions - Sports

Thanks for reading...

I sold my D700 and bought a D5100 in the mean time before anything fun comes out (D600 or D7100) and have a quick question

I had it out at a perfect summer day taking some action shots of softball. Using Shutter priority and trying to keep focus points on the target. Im having hit and miss success with focus even though the focus points are red right on target.

I used continuous mode and as you can see the first shot is perfect...





then the very next shot, is way off but focus point is right on her perfectly.. (not sure if you can see focus point in shot)





i am using AF-C with single focus point and it has not moved from center. on aperture, I can see the focus point and it is center chest both shots...

Help!

I am not an expert but here is my guess:

The setting you used for both pictures is as follows:

Nikon D5100, 135 mm, ISO 100, 1/1250 sec, f3.2, 0 EV, Jun 3, 2012 12:07:08

You certainly used a fast enough shutter speed. However, I think the aperture of f3.2 provided too narrow a depth of field. The first photo was of the batter standing still and your camera captured her within the depth of field. In the second photo I think she moved slightly out of the depth of field and for that reason she is a little blurred.

You must allow a wider depth of field in action shots by using a smaller aperture. Also, use a slower shutter speed which will allow you to use a smaller aperture.

spineguy wrote:

I ran the DOP calculator, and assuming 50-60ish feet distance, you would have had at least 5-7 feet of usable depth of field, so I'm not sure it's a DOp issue. But y guess i that it's motion blur that you are seeing. Look at the fence..the blur is consistent across the fence and you can sort of make out ghosting on the left and right edges of the fence poles.

You didn't pan the camera unintentionally during the frame burst, did you? The funny thing is that you panned right to left if you did (the girl in the red socks is closer to the edge of the frame in the second). Unless these are crops.

Just a reminder too... AF-C means that the camera is tracking motion fore/aft. It works best if the focus point stays over the moving subject and is moving in a consistent way. The camera will predict motion in between shutter clicks, but it works best if you give it a fighting chance. AF-C does not track motion side to side in the frame. For that you have to turn on dynamic area or 3D-tracking.

--
http://1000wordpics.blogspot.com

spineguy said:

i am using AF-C with single focus point and it has not moved from center. on aperture, I can see the focus point and it is center chest both shots...

Click to expand...

It's not a depth of field problem. Looking at the ground, nothing is in focus near the batter.

I'm just guessing. I think it's either serious camera shake, or regardless of where the focus point is indicated, that the lens went out of focus. Or maybe a VR problem?

It looks like camera shake. Are you sure someone didn't bump your elbow on that second exposure!

That second shot is OOF... my D7000 does the exact same thing, no matter the focus mode, number of focus points, AF-C, AF-S, AF-A, center point, another point, doesn't matter. I'm convinced that Nikon has changed something since the D90, either with the AF or the mirror mechanism that produces bad inconsistencies.

I had a D90 that did not have AF fine tune and it never gave a minutes trouble keeping subjects in focus with only 11 points, with any lens I used on it. My D700 has bulletproof AF that doesn't miss unless I try to (honestly). The D7000 is another story. It misses focus regularly, even when I am really trying hard to focus (pun intended) on what I am doing. And what's more, it does not like my 50 F1.8G (+20 AF fine tune and still is slightly off), it hates my 70-200 f2.8 VRII that is absolutely perfect on my D700, and hits about 1 in 20 times on a Tamron 70-300 VC when it is at 150mm or higher (also perfect on my D700 at all focal lenghts). It's barely tolerable with my 24-70 f2.8, but even misses every few shots with that one. The D90 was arguably better, and the D700 is hands-down superior.

If you find a lens that the D7000 likes, you better keep it. In my case, a Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4 OS is unbelievably sharp at all focal lengths and apertures, and a Tokina 11-16 f2.8 is also simply amazing. The D7000 is capable of some real stunning images, but only if the damn thing focuses right. I am really frustrated with it. I have to use Q mode on anything slower than 1/200 or it shows motion blur from the mirror slap. There are serious issues with it, and you cannot convince me otherwise, after 28,000 clicks on the D90 and 26,000+ on the D700. I am at 8600 clicks on the D7000 and am certain that it is a flawed body...the D5100 has much of the same hardware, so assume that your issues are similar to mine. Good luck and don't let the frustration get you down.
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K.B.

Interesting with dof issues. These are indeed crops as I can post the real deal in the morning.

What f stop would u recommend then? F4 or even higher? I guess maybe I should use a mode and set f stop first and let camera take control of shutter speed

As far as focus I'm up for suggestions as well. Dynamic and 3d I guess I have never trusted as the camera hunts and has a possibility of grabbing something totally out of the shot. At least now I can say it is not a focus point.

Although I am seriously considering taking d5100 back for the d7000 so I can lock focus.

Thanks! I look forward to more responses and recommendations

It is obviously out of focus, not DOF problem. You can see at the very bottom of the image, the gravel is in focus several feet in front of your subject (front focus). Surprised no one else noticed that yet. Not motion blur, either, or the in-focus gravel would be blurred, too. This is classic OOF.

Sorry I was referring so much to the D7000 in my post above. I have been meaning for a while to go on a rant about my displeasure with the D7000's auto focus, that I took this opportunity to do so. I still believe that the D5100 has enough similarities in hardware, that my experience could be similar to what you are seeing here. Just sayin'...
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K.B.

My 3100 does the exact same thing with the 18-55 kit lens and my 50 1.8G regardless. There is no rhyme or reason and Im 100% convinced it is a camera issue. Problem is I received it as a gift and Im afraid they wont honor the warranty. I spoke with someone in that department about it and they wouldnt give me a 100% definitive answer one way or the other. Good luck, I know Im thinking about ebaying mine for whatever I can switching back to Pentax, Canon or Fuji. All cameras I own and have previously owned that never failed me. Ive heard for many horror stories with Nikon focusing issues over the past few months Im starting to wonder if something isnt seriously wrong.
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http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3317198770/albums

The second shot looks to me to have camera shake. Contrary to a previous post, I don't see the front of the picture as sharp, just possibly less blurred than the rest of the picture.

Saying which, while overall I'm very happy with the D5100, moving subject AF is not great. I know the D700 is a more expensive camera with a more sophisticated AF system, but it certainly focuses much more consistantly on moving subjects.

If I were regularly shooting any kind of sport (instead of my mostly landscapes), I would be looking to see what other cameras in the same price bracket do moving AF better. Or I'd decide I had to pay more to get a camera that suited sport photography.
--
Rens

There are optimists and there are realists

I agree and I am willing to change cameras as I just got the d5100 as a stop gap until something more recent comes from Nikon.

I am indeed married to Nikon because I have the
70-200 vrII
24-120 f4 vrII
85 1.8
50 1.4

From when I had the d700

I didn't want to compare the d700 to the 5100 simply because I am not unreasonable as the two cameras are apples and oranges. I don't expect the 5100 to do things the d700 can.

But when the 5100 is on focus, I don't think I am unreasonable to expect it to stay in focus for literally the next shot .25 seconds later. (4 clicks per second)

Lost now what to do since user above is having same problem with d7000

oh, i wanted to address camera shake. while I am sensitive about taking blame (I deal enough with the "not me" at home with 6 kids) with this shot, I am resting my hand on top of a waist high fence down first base line. My hand is cupping the 70-200 as frankly the lens weighs 2-3 times what the camera does.

While it could be camera shake, I feel the fact that I am anchored pretty well and shooting at pretty high rate of shutter speed, I would have a hard time believing that very very slight camera shake would be the reason for the blur on the second shot.

spineguy said:

While it could be camera shake, I feel the fact that I am anchored pretty well and shooting at pretty high rate of shutter speed, I would have a hard time believing that very very slight camera shake would be the reason for the blur on the second shot.

Click to expand...

Mirror slap? I use a Gorilla pod often, so it's a very short and stiff base which amplifies the mirror slap. Grasping at straws, but if you were wedged in there good, there can be a thing as 'too stabilized'. I still think it's some kind of camera/lens movement based on how the fence looks in the second picture.

If it were me, I might have prefocused and turned off AF in the chance that the camera would lose focus on the body and try to pick up the motion of the bat.

--
http://1000wordpics.blogspot.com

not sure if I have ever heard of too stabilized.

am i just being too picky to expect a consumer or even pro-sumer camera to stay in focus?

frustrated to say the least...

Looking at the bat she using it's quite a reflective one, I am wondering if as she swung the bat the sun reflected off it and threw off your cameras AF as the bat in the picture is just to the right of center.

Wide angle shots are less susceptible to camera shake than telephoto. I have found that my telephoto shots are less apt to have camera shake if I hold my breath while shooting.

This is a GOOD example of how really BAD advice is given on dpreview CONSTANTLY.

It is not a DOF issue.

It is not a "problem" with someone else's D7000 or D3100.

It is not mirror slap.

It is not a bat passing through the focus field at high speed.

It is one, or maybe 2 things:

OP: you're asking a camera with a mediocre AF system to track a black shirt (horrible focus target). You, your camera, or both failed to track focus. In addition, it appears that there MAY be some camera shake, but not for sure, based on the fence in the 2nd shot.

Go out and practice with the D5100. Pick a spot on the side of a road, and track cars moving somewhat toward you. See if you can make it fail. Pick good, contrasty focus targets. AF-C, single point, or 11-point dynamic area, depending on the speed of the subject.

Bill Randall said:

I am not an expert but here is my guess:

The setting you used for both pictures is as follows:

Nikon D5100, 135 mm, ISO 100, 1/1250 sec, f3.2, 0 EV, Jun 3, 2012 12:07:08

You certainly used a fast enough shutter speed. However, I think the aperture of f3.2 provided too narrow a depth of field. The first photo was of the batter standing still and your camera captured her within the depth of field. In the second photo I think she moved slightly out of the depth of field and for that reason she is a little blurred.

You must allow a wider depth of field in action shots by using a smaller aperture. Also, use a slower shutter speed which will allow you to use a smaller aperture.

Click to expand...

"Must", huh?

Completely wrong post.

stuntmonkey said:

spineguy wrote:

I ran the DOP calculator, and assuming 50-60ish feet distance, you would have had at least 5-7 feet of usable depth of field, so I'm not sure it's a DOp issue. But y guess i that it's motion blur that you are seeing. Look at the fence..the blur is consistent across the fence and you can sort of make out ghosting on the left and right edges of the fence poles.

You didn't pan the camera unintentionally during the frame burst, did you? The funny thing is that you panned right to left if you did (the girl in the red socks is closer to the edge of the frame in the second). Unless these are crops.

Just a reminder too... AF-C means that the camera is tracking motion fore/aft. It works best if the focus point stays over the moving subject and is moving in a consistent way. The camera will predict motion in between shutter clicks, but it works best if you give it a fighting chance. AF-C does not track motion side to side in the frame. For that you have to turn on dynamic area or 3D-tracking.

--
http://1000wordpics.blogspot.com

Click to expand...

Um, sorta.

AF-C DOES track motion side to side, IF using dynamic area.

DuaneV said:

My 3100 does the exact same thing with the 18-55 kit lens and my 50 1.8G regardless. There is no rhyme or reason and Im 100% convinced it is a camera issue. Problem is I received it as a gift and Im afraid they wont honor the warranty. I spoke with someone in that department about it and they wouldnt give me a 100% definitive answer one way or the other. Good luck, I know Im thinking about ebaying mine for whatever I can switching back to Pentax, Canon or Fuji. All cameras I own and have previously owned that never failed me. Ive heard for many horror stories with Nikon focusing issues over the past few months Im starting to wonder if something isnt seriously wrong.
--
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3317198770/albums

Click to expand...

YOUR D3100 IS BARELY A STEP UP FROM A POINT AND SHOOT.

IT IS NOT A "NIKON ISSUE".

Don't expect miracles. If you want to shoot sports, by a better camera.

nfpotter said:

Bill Randall said:

I am not an expert but here is my guess:

The setting you used for both pictures is as follows:

Nikon D5100, 135 mm, ISO 100, 1/1250 sec, f3.2, 0 EV, Jun 3, 2012 12:07:08

You certainly used a fast enough shutter speed. However, I think the aperture of f3.2 provided too narrow a depth of field. The first photo was of the batter standing still and your camera captured her within the depth of field. In the second photo I think she moved slightly out of the depth of field and for that reason she is a little blurred.

You must allow a wider depth of field in action shots by using a smaller aperture. Also, use a slower shutter speed which will allow you to use a smaller aperture.

Click to expand...

"Must", huh?

Completely wrong post

Click to expand...

Alright, not "must". If one wants to assure the action stays within the depth of field one must make certain the depth of field is deep enough to accommodate the action.

Please feel free to post a more accurate statement which would be of benefit to the op rather than a sarcastic statement which provides no benefit. Thank you.