5DIII vs 5DII (an unbiased RAW workflow comparison) - lots os samples!

. . . The point of the test is to seek differences in the sensors so using any lens wide open is foolish. Using the same lens at it's peak aperture eliminates the lens from the equation.
Yes - that was not my point - I wanted to see (as stated in my introduction) the differences in my daily "normal conditions" and I have also posted examples with the peak aperture of the TS-E 90 as well - none of these settings proofed the 5D III to be a significantly better performer.

In fact the 5D III seems to have more saturated colors which can either be adapted to the color appearance of the 5D II or the other way round. Since I did not do any scientific test I can be wrong with simply using a camera in normal conditions ;-)
Nice - so you've convinced yourself! LOL! Good for you! :-D

Me - I bought a 5D3 for different reasons. Unfortunately, the 5D2 is not quite up to the job, whereas the 5D3 is.

I guess what you are saying is that you don't need the extra capabilities that the 5D3 provides over the 5D2. Uh-huh ... OK.

However, we all know you really want a 5D3 - why else would you have gone on so long about this? ;-) Go on - be honest - you're not really fooling anyone. LOL! :-)
 
deleted post
 
However, we all know you really want a 5D3 - why else would you have gone on so long about this? ;-) Go on - be honest - you're not really fooling anyone. LOL! :-)
Yes - I'd want a real 5D III LOL :-)

nothing to add here

(a real 5D III would have at least 4x MPixel

;-)

just for the record - I am spending now double the price for a 300 f/2.8 II

--

isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'

“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
 
just for the record - I am spending now double the price for a 300 f/2.8 II
I guess Canon has decided that there is more money to be made with 'better lenses' (or higher framerates) than with 'better sensors'. There is a clear pattern with almost all recent L glass :(

I hope they make a better 4/300IS (rumoured for end of 2012, I wonder if I'm still a Canon user by then). The 2.8/300ii sounds great but for me it's a hobby and its price is ridiculous, plus I'm worried about the weight for handholding. Even then, one worries how much they are going to ask for a significantly improved 4/300 IS ii.
 
just for the record - I am spending now double the price for a 300 f/2.8 II
Nice :-)

Then - once you go birding or sports shooting with it, you'll be wanting a 5D3 so you can get 6fps and more shots in focus! (or, of course, a 1Dx!)

But, one thing at a time. ;-)
 
Yes, I agree, but the problem is that each photo was individually processed and some may have more or less sharpening done in post. Hence it is difficult to know which is really best fresh out of the camera. I personally would like to take a look at the original raws.

My feeling from the thread is that there may not be that much difference between the 5D2 and the 5D3 without post processing. Perhaps I am wrong. It certainly would not be the first time! But that is my impression.
 
Thank you for taking the time showing us your excellent and writing up the detail comparison.

IMHO, the 5D3 improves upon the 5D2 on two most important areas among many other incremental improvements.

1. The AF system
2. The high ISO performance

As your work does not rely on either, the improvement may not be intuitively obvious.

--
Nelson Chen
http://pbase.com/nelsonc
http://NelsonChenPhotography.com/
100% RAW shooter with Capture One Pro



Colorado Renaissance Festival photos:
http://www.pbase.com/nelsonc/renaissance_festivals

 
Thank you for taking the time showing us your excellent and writing up the detail comparison.

IMHO, the 5D3 improves upon the 5D2 on two most important areas among many other incremental improvements.

1. The AF system
2. The high ISO performance

As your work does not rely on either, the improvement may not be intuitively obvious.
Agreed. I don't think anyone expected to see a difference at base ISO. The open question is how much the High ISO has improved and this comparison doesn't really speak to that.
 
tried the 300 f/2.8 and 400 f/2.8 and like them both!

The 300 f/2.8 II is lighter then the old version and it is hand holdable for a few minutes and works fine from a monopod.

Was amazed by the AF performance on the 5D II.

I can only recommend to everyone to try the 5D II with a 300/400 f/2.8 to understand what I mean - more the adequate for many things but most of all . dead sharp and crisp images.

Now if only I could have a bit more fine details.

today I printed several 5D II / III samples side by side 18x24 inches - very interesting - neither the dark nor the light areas look better on the 5D III.

For the manual optimization I have to say that I know the limits of the 5D II much better and the target was to adapt the colors and appearance of both cameras equally and to reach the limits of the sharpening before over sharpening starts - the 5D II behaves differently - if the 5D II looks sharper it is not intended to be that way - maybe the 5D III is simply a bit more tricky to be optimized since it has IMHO very saturated colors to begin with and that is a bit too much of rmy taste - I'd love to own a 4x Mpixel 5D III

And I would afford two of them if I really wanted them - in fact I would not spend a singe USD extra for the5 D III
just for the record - I am spending now double the price for a 300 f/2.8 II
I guess Canon has decided that there is more money to be made with 'better lenses' (or higher framerates) than with 'better sensors'. There is a clear pattern with almost all recent L glass :(

I hope they make a better 4/300IS (rumoured for end of 2012, I wonder if I'm still a Canon user by then). The 2.8/300ii sounds great but for me it's a hobby and its price is ridiculous, plus I'm worried about the weight for handholding. Even then, one worries how much they are going to ask for a significantly improved 4/300 IS ii.
--

isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'

“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
 
. . . I don't think anyone expected to see a difference at base ISO . . .
It was my hope to get a better camera at base ISO

One big competitor seems to be able to do that ;-)

At ISO 1600 is see also no significant difference - unfortunately I see also no improvements in the shadows and highlights which would be an indicator for more DR.

--

isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'

“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
 
. . . I don't think anyone expected to see a difference at base ISO . . .
It was my hope to get a better camera at base ISO
What was wrong with the 5D2 at base ISO? How could it have been better?

I take it you are simply talking about resolution - in which case you must be printing some very large prints!
 
As others have said seems to further confirm what we have been seeing again and again. Having a 5Dii I'm certainly not in line for a 5Diii.

Still, waiting for the final verdict on the D800 before I decide if I should go to go the dark side, but until further my 5Dii is doing as well as ever.

Finally I agree with several others here, that the best way forward for many Canon 5Dii-shooters that are reluctant to change brand is probably to forgo the 5Diii and invest in some great glass in stead. Nothing - not even a D800(!) - will improve your pictures and iq as much as a great piece of glass will.
 
. . . you must be printing some very large prints!
well - what is large - I own a HP Z3200 12 ink Fine Art printer and even at smaller sizes the subtle differences are visible but in bigger formats they show dramatically.



24 inch wide I sometimes print 60 to 70 inches long. At 20x 30 inches print size I clearly see differences between stitched 50 MPixel images and 'normal' 21 MPixel shots
.

Sometimes stitching is no option because fast moving objects or situations where the moment counts more then the quality - yet this kind of photography is not interesting to me now because the quality of the 5D II is nice but not sufficient for decent print sizes and some cropping at the same time.

The 5D II was my 1st DSLR and it was from the beginning a compromise in quality - after four years no progress in printing quality - that's disappointing and not what I had expected from Canon.

I'd love to see a 7D sensor blown up to FF with the other enhancements of the 5D III - now that would be a camera where I'd happily spend 1 k USD more compare tot he 5D II

--

isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'

“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
 
At 20x 30 inches print size I clearly see differences between stitched 50 MPixel images and 'normal' 21 MPixel shots.
Could you please tell from what distance you see a difference in those? Thanks!
 
At 20x 30 inches print size I clearly see differences between stitched 50 MPixel images and 'normal' 21 MPixel shots.
Could you please tell from what distance you see a difference in those? Thanks!
2 to 3 feet (m)

It is more the dynamic and 3Dish look ;-)

Seriously!! The images with the better resolution figures just pop out and have a much better contrast and they are visible cleaner. My brother (he is no photographer or PP) immediately pointed to the image with the higher resolution and said: "that's a beautiful shot!"

if you look closer you can see more details and better rendering of the colors and of corse better dynamic in the image.

It all comes down to the same principles in technology - it is analog to the situation with CD players - oversampling gives you more headroom for image processing e.g. cropping, framing and heavy manipulations.

Medium format in the analog days had the possibility of cropping to a different format after shooting. If you crop 21 or 22 MPixel to the size of the crop format (which sometimes can occur) you are at some 10 to 12 Mpixel which is fine for DIN A3 or maybe DIN A2 - but these prints will be clearly sub prime - just to my standards maybe.

If you want to go for really fast AF look at this:

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/04/canon-eos-1d-x-delays/
The good news is the AF system on the 1D X is being called the “best” and “fastest” system on any current DSLR, this includes the new Nikon D4 and Canon 5D Mark III.
If I were into sports and PJ I would opt for the 1Dx which seems to be clearly the winner in high ISO and AF speed.

The whole AF speed discussion is like telling an of thirst dying guy that he could get a bottle of Fiji Water where all he wants is water.

Yes AF is sometimes key to get a good shot - but what's wrong with an 1Dx?

I am very disappointed that Canon did not bring the 1Dx and a real 5D II high res successor.

I care about printing - that's what I always loved and in this discipline the 5D III seems to be more or less on par with the 5D II - even at bigger print sizes. the differences are negligible.

Just download the test RAW' images of the various studio shots and print them big - that's what I did until I did my own tests which clearly showed the same results - if you don't own a big printer just print a portion of the image that would translate into a DIN A2 or DIN A1 print - you will understand what I mean - no difference at all (sharpening and prefect optimization as precondition)

Just sharing my findings with others - it is an altruistic approach and no offense to anyone. If you care about printing quality the 5D II is more then good enough within the Canon system - clearly on the same quality level as the 5 D III is - save a lot of money - my spouse now buys a 5D II because it is the bargain of the year ;-)

--

isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'

“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
 
LR is not good tool to test.
We need wait for DPP without bug
is that true?

http://naturewindows.com/articles/article090203.html

for me it looks like LR is one of the best workflow tools - there may be one or two others that are on the same quality level but other RAW converters simply show slightly different results instead of significantly better ones - it is clearly a question of taste and your own perception but it is no night and day thing.

--

isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'

“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
 
the only problem with 1Dx - it costs as hell. On the other side people who need super fast AF usually earn money with photography and can afford such investment.

From my point of view 5D mk2 needed just a little bit improved AF: cross-sensors on the 1/3 and 2/3 lines. But not 51 points with 20 cross-sensors.

In the rest I totally agree with you, Canon is selling old wine in new bottles.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top