Disappointed with my NEX 5n

had it for around 5 months, and whilst initially I was wowed by potential IQ for such a small body - I'm finding:

(1) I don't really enjoy using it - hard to describe really - but partially the form factor doesn't do it for me - and the menus I find so clunky any annoying (especially going from RAW to HDR etc)

(2) I don't seem to get many "keepers" - hard to describe - but a lot of photos just seem off - I'm sure its not my photography skills as I didn't have this problem with my previous DSLRs. Note I'm not saying I'm a skilled photographer- a lot of my photos prob. would be classed as record shots (of the family etc) - but even a lot of those don't seem to be keepers

(3) photos often seem "dull" and lacking in contrast - I know the sensor has high dynamic range - which is good - but it doens't often seem like it from the photos I take with it. The images are reasonably sharp (most of the time) - but lack any gloss IMO - even after PP

(4) corners often seem "off" - not sure if my 18-55 lens - but they are certainly lacking

overall - I'm just not convinced - but perhaps it just doesn't work for me

i totally agree with you on (1), but other than that...

well, good luck.

cheers

I thought with the small form factor I'd take it out a lot more than my DSLR

if anything I'm taking it out less as I don't enjoy it - also it doesn't seem to hang very well round your neck either

Mark Buckley said:

(4) corners often seem "off" - not sure if my 18-55 lens - but they are certainly lacking

Click to expand...

There's your problem right there. I've never been anything other than disappointed by the performance of a kit lens. Get a few good manual focus lenses on there and see what the camera can really do!

(For the record, I've never used a 5n. But I have used the 18-55 and can safely say that it's unfair to judge a camera by it.)

Mark Buckley said:

had it for around 5 months, and whilst initially I was wowed by potential IQ for such a small body - I'm finding:

(1) I don't really enjoy using it - hard to describe really - but partially the form factor doesn't do it for me - and the menus I find so clunky any annoying (especially going from RAW to HDR etc)

Click to expand...

Well, this one could largely be a personal thing. Agreed, switching off RAW to do stuff like HDR is a bit of a pain, something fixable in firmware. For most things though, the 5N customization of the C button isn't bad, and you shouldn't have to dig into the menus for much else.

Mark Buckley said:

(2) I don't seem to get many "keepers" - hard to describe - but a lot of photos just seem off - I'm sure its not my photography skills as I didn't have this problem with my previous DSLRs. Note I'm not saying I'm a skilled photographer- a lot of my photos prob. would be classed as record shots (of the family etc) - but even a lot of those don't seem to be keepers

Click to expand...

Sounds like you might be dependent on an PDAF dependent SLR snapshooting style. Other types of photography aren't a big problem. Imagine my issue going from my autofocus DSLR with 18-200 zoom to a manual focus prime lens! It was quite an adjustment, and I lost quite a few shots. I got others, however, and got myself an SEL18200 eventually, for those situations where I just need to snap the shutter.

Have you tried the firmware update yet? There is a minor improvement in AF speed that might make a difference for some scenarios.

Mark Buckley said:

(3) photos often seem "dull" and lacking in contrast - I know the sensor has high dynamic range - which is good - but it doens't often seem like it from the photos I take with it. The images are reasonably sharp (most of the time) - but lack any gloss IMO - even after PP

Click to expand...

This issue is clearly something you can overcome. How are you processing your raw files? You see lots of evidence of images with plenty contrast and pop coming from the same camera and lens combination on this site. Roughly half of them OOC Jpegs, others with light processing.

Mark Buckley said:

(4) corners often seem "off" - not sure if my 18-55 lens - but they are certainly lacking

overall - I'm just not convinced - but perhaps it just doesn't work for me

Click to expand...

Could be a lens performance issue in your case. Kit lens QC isn't exactly even. I'm real unexcited about the copy 16mm Sony Lens I ended up with. But the 18-200 is pretty worthy. I also see that others are getting good results with the kit lens.

I'd really like to see some sample shots with EXIF data from the OP.

I have a 5N and have been more than pleased with the 18-55 that came with it. That doesn't exclude the possibility of a bad sample.

Some questions/comments for you?

Mark Buckley said:

had it for around 5 months, and whilst initially I was wowed by potential IQ for such a small body - I'm finding:

(1) I don't really enjoy using it - hard to describe really - but partially the form factor doesn't do it for me - and the menus I find so clunky any annoying (especially going from RAW to HDR etc)

Click to expand...

Do you have the EVF? Or Hoodman? It makes a difference, it will show you in more detail what the LCD is showing, but moreover, it removes the glare and increases contrast. You may find this the most rewarding change?

Also, get at least one fast lens, to explore shallow DOF, low light, etc.

And try shooting JPG for a while, maybe the RAW flow is hindering you? Both in usage and in final results?

Mark Buckley said:

(2) I don't seem to get many "keepers" - hard to describe - but a lot of photos just seem off - I'm sure its not my photography skills as I didn't have this problem with my previous DSLRs. Note I'm not saying I'm a skilled photographer- a lot of my photos prob. would be classed as record shots (of the family etc) - but even a lot of those don't seem to be keepers

Click to expand...

Turn the electronic first shutter on - this will shorten the response time from when you press the shutter. Unsure what makes your pics non-keepers, but I am guessing that most are OOF shots.

Turn the AF assist light off (at least with FW 1.0) - this helped a little against the loss of focus under low light.

Try P mode, or decide on a ISO/shutter-speed/aperture that works for you. Try shooting at higher aperture stops and/or higher shutter speeds. Do not be afraid of higher ISO (e.g. 1600).

Indoors, start using the bounce flash - you will like the results over the low light shots - unless you have a lot of indoor lights.

What rate is a good keeper rate for you? Under what circumstances?

Mark Buckley said:

(3) photos often seem "dull" and lacking in contrast - I know the sensor has high dynamic range - which is good - but it doens't often seem like it from the photos I take with it. The images are reasonably sharp (most of the time) - but lack any gloss IMO - even after PP.

Click to expand...

Is your monitor calibrated?

You can boost colors, shoot in vivid mode, or do this in post. Make sure you add sharpening and contrast in post, and add colors if you like to.

Mark Buckley said:

(4) corners often seem "off" - not sure if my 18-55 lens - but they are certainly lacking

Click to expand...

Are you shooting a lot at 18-24 at f/3.5? Is this applicable to all pictures?
Are you talking about the E-16, at f/2.8?

Often, items in the corners are in a different focal plane. No point in looking for sharpness then. Only in pictures when it matters, and make sure that you have proper FL, aperture, etc. for optimizing sharpness.

Mark Buckley said:

overall - I'm just not convinced - but perhaps it just doesn't work for me

Click to expand...

Dull - OOC





Post - simple color boost





Low light - fast lens (contax G35mm at f/2)





Kit flash - direct mode only





Bounce flash - with flash compensation dialed way back.





--
Cheers,
Henry

Have you had the same feelings about your previous cameras as well?

blue_skies - thanks for that long post will take a look and read through

re previous cameras no - I loved my Fuji S3 Pro (till it broke) and I'm regretting selling my S5 Pro

will experiment more - and perhaps try some legacy lenses

Mark Buckley said:

had it for around 5 months, and whilst initially I was wowed by potential IQ for such a small body - I'm finding:

Click to expand...

Mark Buckley said:

(4) corners often seem "off" - not sure if my 18-55 lens - but they are certainly lacking

Click to expand...

That's the 18-55 which is soft in the corners and super-sharp at the center.

I dont have the 18-55, but on this photo, It doesn't like bad at all.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1042&thread=40886598
Corners look ok too me.
--
Philippe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miwok/

High dynamic range = soft looking image - always. Small dynamic range = very bright contrasty image with dense shadows and bright highlights.

You only have 256 steps to play with. A big dynamic range stuffs more tone steps into 256 levels, so it makes pictures look a bit dull out of camera.

I've used many kit lenses for all the major makes and I've used at least five different 18-55mm SELs. They vary slightly but no more than any other make, and they do not seem to be worse than any other comparable stabilised 18-55mm APS-C lens. The Adobe standard raw conversion profile for most Sony Alpha/NEX models is not very good and needs the Strong Contrast curve set as a default, plus some other adjustments to get it close to a JPEG - and the JPEGs can be underexposed if you judge by the EVF and try to get it looking correct.

David

redsim74 said:

I'd really like to see some sample shots with EXIF data from the OP.

I have a 5N and have been more than pleased with the 18-55 that came with it. That doesn't exclude the possibility of a bad sample.

Click to expand...

+1
Great lens (lense correction used) of course it's slow.... it's 3.5 .

This is great advice, I also check out this website on a regular basis:

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1345/cat/83

For most of the E-mount lenses, it gives 3D Blur Index graphs with sliders for focal length and F-stop, so you can find when each lens performs best. Most of the E-mount lenses seem to do best at F 5.6 or 8, but if you check out the graphs you'll get a better idea for how each lens does under different circumstances. There are definitely some focal length/F-stop combinations that don't work well for the kit lens, but there are some that up the odds.

Here is their page with links to Sony primes and zooms, although they don't have all of them, they have most of the SEL lenses:

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showcat.php/cat/81

Hi Mark, so what's the next step for you? Are there other cameras that you think might do a better job for you? Have you been looking around at other options?

Mark Buckley said:

(1) I don't really enjoy using it - hard to describe really
(2) I don't seem to get many "keepers" - hard to describe
(3) photos often seem "dull" and lacking in contrast

(4) corners often seem "off" - not sure if my 18-55 lens - but they are certainly lacking
overall - I'm just not convinced

Click to expand...

--
JohnK
Take a picture, it'll last longer.

JohnK said:

Hi Mark, so what's the next step for you? Are there other cameras that you think might do a better job for you? Have you been looking around at other options?

Mark Buckley said:

(1) I don't really enjoy using it - hard to describe really
(2) I don't seem to get many "keepers" - hard to describe
(3) photos often seem "dull" and lacking in contrast

(4) corners often seem "off" - not sure if my 18-55 lens - but they are certainly lacking
overall - I'm just not convinced

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

1) Personal liking or not. Set custom buttons and forget about the menu (except for Raw-DR). If you don't like it subjectively, nobody will be able to help you, just buy a different camera.

2) Maybe it is the liveview approach so you are not used to set up a scene using it compared to your previous DSLRS? If so, either get the EVF or a DSLR.

3) As others have explained, "dull" images show the high dynamic range of the Nex, not otherwise. If you want more pizza, try the vivid or other modes, bump up saturation or contrast. I feel that the Nex pictures look like the real world, not like ToysRus. I rather do postprocessing and adjust colors if needed.

4) The kit lens is excellent from 18 to 35mm. If you shot family indoors, it will have aperture wide open so of course corners will get soft. In addition, if you have low light, ISO will go up as well as Noise. Get the 24 or 50/1.8 or a cheap legacy 50/1.4 lens and enjoy manual focus low DOF. At 50-55mm the kit lens is soft wide open at 5-5.6. Stopping down, especially indoors is not practical. Indoors: Get closer and use wider focal length.

Can you possibly state which lenses you used with your previous DSLRs?

Mine could have been constructed from old coke bottles by myopic chimpanzees, based on what it manages to produce.

It could be the OP has one of the "less good" kit lenses as it seems to be a lens plagued by sample variation.

Fortunately I got my NEX to use with manual lenses so I'm not unduly bothered by how poor the kit lens was - it will sit in a box somewhere until it's time to be sold,

Nick

blue_skies what bounce flash did you use for that last shot?

blue_skies said:

Mark Buckley said:

had it for around 5 months, and whilst initially I was wowed by potential IQ for such a small body - I'm finding:

(1) I don't really enjoy using it - hard to describe really - but partially the form factor doesn't do it for me - and the menus I find so clunky any annoying (especially going from RAW to HDR etc)

Click to expand...

Do you have the EVF? Or Hoodman? It makes a difference, it will show you in more detail what the LCD is showing, but moreover, it removes the glare and increases contrast. You may find this the most rewarding change?

Also, get at least one fast lens, to explore shallow DOF, low light, etc.

And try shooting JPG for a while, maybe the RAW flow is hindering you? Both in usage and in final results?

blue_skies said:

(2) I don't seem to get many "keepers" - hard to describe - but a lot of photos just seem off - I'm sure its not my photography skills as I didn't have this problem with my previous DSLRs. Note I'm not saying I'm a skilled photographer- a lot of my photos prob. would be classed as record shots (of the family etc) - but even a lot of those don't seem to be keepers

Click to expand...

Turn the electronic first shutter on - this will shorten the response time from when you press the shutter. Unsure what makes your pics non-keepers, but I am guessing that most are OOF shots.

Turn the AF assist light off (at least with FW 1.0) - this helped a little against the loss of focus under low light.

Try P mode, or decide on a ISO/shutter-speed/aperture that works for you. Try shooting at higher aperture stops and/or higher shutter speeds. Do not be afraid of higher ISO (e.g. 1600).

Indoors, start using the bounce flash - you will like the results over the low light shots - unless you have a lot of indoor lights.

What rate is a good keeper rate for you? Under what circumstances?

blue_skies said:

(3) photos often seem "dull" and lacking in contrast - I know the sensor has high dynamic range - which is good - but it doens't often seem like it from the photos I take with it. The images are reasonably sharp (most of the time) - but lack any gloss IMO - even after PP.

Click to expand...

Is your monitor calibrated?

You can boost colors, shoot in vivid mode, or do this in post. Make sure you add sharpening and contrast in post, and add colors if you like to.

blue_skies said:

(4) corners often seem "off" - not sure if my 18-55 lens - but they are certainly lacking

Click to expand...

Are you shooting a lot at 18-24 at f/3.5? Is this applicable to all pictures?
Are you talking about the E-16, at f/2.8?

Often, items in the corners are in a different focal plane. No point in looking for sharpness then. Only in pictures when it matters, and make sure that you have proper FL, aperture, etc. for optimizing sharpness.

blue_skies said:

overall - I'm just not convinced - but perhaps it just doesn't work for me

Click to expand...

Dull - OOC





Post - simple color boost





Low light - fast lens (contax G35mm at f/2)





Kit flash - direct mode only





Bounce flash - with flash compensation dialed way back.





--
Cheers,
Henry

Click to expand...

Hi Mark,

I do not like the UI at all on the 5N and that stops the fun factor....you have to have some fun factor when using a camera or it will show in your photos as well...the 5N is a great camera in it's own rite...

The Nex-7 would be your next choice and the UI and Camera layout is much more user friendly than the 5N for those of us who prefer controls to touch...

I have the G3 and GH2 as well and prefer using the GH2 over the G3 due to UI and Manual Controls even though the G3 is a fabulous cam...

--
FlickR Photostream:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46756347@N08/

I bought mine super early (one of the first on this forum).

I shot it in tandem with my 5D on a photo workshop, and it really let me down. Part of that is the autofocus, and part of that is how the camera handles.

Both can be addressed. I plan to practice a lot more, and I plan to use more MF lenses more often. AF is the biggest gripe though. I used it over the holidays and nearly all of the images were focused on the wrong spot despite doing a lot of zooming and tweaking.

Just installed 1.01 so maybe that will help.