Fuji X Pro 1 or Olympus EM-5? Which one would you get and why?

Choices are good.

Why not at least give us the option to control the aperture or other settings with the manual focus ring? For most users, it's simply wasted space.
 
Why not at least give us the option to control the aperture or other settings with the manual focus ring? For most users, it's simply wasted space.
There should be three rings in that area - just like the good old OM cameras : shutter speed , focus and aperture. ;-)

As for camera choice, I had waited for the Fuji X pro details to become clear before making my move ( which I had been considering for a good few months )

I decided any camera that's is to be used to primarily mount legacy MF lenses is really just a compromised pretender to the throne.

The GXR, NEX and Fuji all loose so much at the wide end with their crop. MF focus is never as fast and as clear as with a coupled rangefinder.
The currently perceived AF issues with all Fuji cameras put me off it.

My choice was for a Leica M9 and a Olympus EM-5 .
The M9 replacing my M6 and GXR-M mount and the EM-5 replacing the E- P1.

The Olympus is small, sleek and with so many good native prime lenses lends it's self to the jobs the Leica is poor at :single handed operation with fast AF, macro, video , wide indoor work. Even with the E-P1, the 12mm f/2 backed with IBIS is a far better experience than a 21 Summilux with separate OVF ( unless subject-focus differentiation is the task ).

The Leica is the one for street work with preset focus and a 35mm lens.

The depth of field differentiation with the larger sensor and really fast lenses is unbeatable.

More importantly both cameras and a brace of lenses still fit together in a small courier bag for walk aborts.
 
Fuji could send the pro to weight watchers and make it the same size as the x100
As the title says, which of the 2 new cameras will you buy and why?
Compared to the E-M5, the X-Pro1 is a big, chunky, expensive camera with big, chunky, expensive lenses. As a DSLR shooter, I want a light, compact, inconspicuous alternative to my DSLR gear. For me, that ideal alternative is the E-M5, not the X-Pro1.
 
I think you missed the point. Canon started the "hey, look, it's electronic, no aperture ring!" deal, and others copied that fashion. I think most people regret it, and if anyone were starting a new high end mount now there would be an aperture ring. Panny made their first dSLR with an aperture ring, but the whole system was too pricey so they backed down, despite the fact the aperture ring was the only bit of the camera most people liked. Now Fuji have a fresh mount, and there it is, looking beautiful! I think most people would welcome it back with open arms, yes, on long lenses too.
Personally, I think Canon took the ring off to make it clear that theirs was a fully electronic mount, and we have all been suffering ever since.
Tell that to every other camera system maker that has been making cameras and lenses "ever since".

Do you really think that larger/longer lens users want to deal with an aperture ring on the lens? I think the answer is pretty much a resounding "No", otherwise lens designers would be clamoring to put the aperture ring back on lenses! Clearly that hasn't happened, even two decades after Canon first took the aperture ring off the lens. Obviously, all the lenses from various manufacturers that have been introduced since then haven't been without aperture rings simply "to make it clear that theirs was a fully electronic mount." No, I think it has more to do with the fact that the aperture ring on the lens is an outdated anachronism that compromises camera handling.







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http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
 
As a matter of ergonomics, aperture rings no longer exist on most lenses for good reason.
And yet, on the brand new 12-50 lens Olympus made the decision to add not one, but two buttons to the place where the aperture ring used to be. Almost as if Olympus doesn't agree with you on the ergonomics issue.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelthek/
 
I have both preordered. I will need to decide in a couple of weeks.

At this point we have not seen enough from the OM D as real cameras are not out in the wild yet.

What we have seen since the XPro 1 has been released is absolutely phenomenal from Japan, and the rest of the Far East. Some of the preproduction stuff is OK but what we are seeing from real cameras is mind boggling.

Hopefully the OM D will show the same kind of improvement over currently available cameras. I have seen some pre production stuff from the Oly that gives hints that it may be a game changer.

Time will tell.

Perry
 
As the title says, which of the 2 new cameras will you buy and why?
Compared to the E-M5, the X-Pro1 is a big, chunky, expensive camera with big, chunky, expensive lenses. As a DSLR shooter, I want a light, compact, inconspicuous alternative to my DSLR gear. For me, that ideal alternative is the E-M5, not the X-Pro1.
I just wrote at mirrorlessrumors.com:

From a m4/3 perspective, that camera is 2 years late. It might have a better sensor, but even that has to be demonstrated. And the choice of lenses is really very boring.

IMHO it is the demonstration that there is a point where going retro forbids progress.

When I began considering it I thought it could be an interesting camera but now I find it boring – and expensive. For comparison please consider not only the E-M5, but also the NEX 7 with an increasing set of lenses.

Being a Leica substitute in 2012 is really an argument for fools – waste your money at leisure.

If Fuji wants to sell more than thousands of cameras, but ten or a hundred times more, I predict it will have to lower the price to its competitors’ level, ore else be considered a failed experiment one year from now.

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The only thing I like is that it has dedicated controls, but by now being used to placing the stuff on the right buttons I can handle Oly or Panny, despite short memory problems. Sony instead looks to me like a nightmare :)

Am.

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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
 
A few points.....

1) The difference in quality between an APS-C and m4/3 sensor will rarely be noticeable, and when it is, the differences will be slight.

2) The sensor has nothing to do with bokeh. That's all on the lenses. The sensor size does determine depth of field (and amount of background blur), but that is different than bokeh (DOF/background blur is the amount of blur, bokeh is the quality of the blur). The differences in background blur between APS-C and 4/3 is not very much.

3) High ISO capabilities is different than image quality.
While an APS-C sensor is going to fair better than the 4/3s in terms of picture quality and bokeh, I've seen dPreviews high ISO shots using the OMD and to me I think I'll be satisfied with that.
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Completely infatuated with the "OMG"
 
No offense taken.

And you're right, I've never handled one. I only know what I've read online, and what I've read is enough to keep me from the purchase. I felt like I'd be "rolling the dice" buying the X100; and my point remains that I've never heard a vocal minority that was upset over Olympus build quality.
 
As a photographer with lots to learn, I am happy with my GF1 and G1, and don't need anything else until I master them. But if I did want a new camera, quite apart from anything else, I would not get a Fuji. There are too many reported reliability and service issues in the X100 and X10 to give me faith in their products.
 
A few points.....

1) The difference in quality between an APS-C and m4/3 sensor will rarely be noticeable, and when it is, the differences will be slight.
Debatable. The X-Pro1 sensor is not only larger though, it lacks AA filter, which could potentially make the difference massive.
2) The sensor has nothing to do with bokeh. That's all on the lenses. The sensor size does determine depth of field (and amount of background blur), but that is different than bokeh (DOF/background blur is the amount of blur, bokeh is the quality of the blur). The differences in background blur between APS-C and 4/3 is not very much.
With a 35 mm on the 4/3 and a 50 mm on the APS-C and a subject distance of 2 meters and f/2.8 aperture the 4/3 has a DOF of 27 cm and the APS-C has 18 cm, not insignificant.
 
Being a Leica substitute in 2012 is really an argument for fools – waste your money at leisure.
An argument that is likely going to make yourself feel clever, but unlikely to convince anyone else.
If Fuji wants to sell more than thousands of cameras, but ten or a hundred times more, I predict it will have to lower the price to its competitors’ level, ore else be considered a failed experiment one year from now.
Which is exactly what people like you said about the X100 a year ago. 100,000 X100 sales later its nice to see you making the same argument now.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelthek/
 
Being a Leica substitute in 2012 is really an argument for fools – waste your money at leisure.
An argument that is likely going to make yourself feel clever, but unlikely to convince anyone else.
If Fuji wants to sell more than thousands of cameras, but ten or a hundred times more, I predict it will have to lower the price to its competitors’ level, ore else be considered a failed experiment one year from now.
Which is exactly what people like you said about the X100 a year ago. 100,000 X100 sales later its nice to see you making the same argument now.
100.000 is still an order of magnitude less of O&P's combined one million something, and growing ' which is exactly' my argument.

I don't suffer snobs gladly, even 100.000 of them. You must be boring to buy such a boring camera.

BTW Leicaphiles were boring even before you, and they might have a Fuji destroyer at Photokina so you'll have wasted your money. But that's neither here or there. Wrong forum, Fuji troll.

Am.

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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
 
I think you missed the point. Canon started the "hey, look, it's electronic, no aperture ring!" deal, and others copied that fashion. I think most people regret it, and if anyone were starting a new high end mount now there would be an aperture ring.
I don't think there are many people who still wish we were still using mechanical aperture rings! Certainly not at the expense of being able to do it electronically by other means. Secondly, there have been new high end mounts introduced since Canon came out with EOS, and they don't have aperture rings. Just take a look at the Leica S2. Or Hasselblad's H3D. Or the Mamiya/Phase One MF system. NONE of which have aperture rings. So what were you saying about "if anyone were starting a new high end mount now there would be an aperture ring"?

Plus, I think if "most people" really did regret not having aperture rings, the manufacturers would have heard about it by now, and they would be offering aperture rings on their lenses. Heck, if you look at the Phase One medium format lens below (third image below), there looks like there's a narrow aperture ring near the lens mount, but they've instead decided to use it as an AF/MF switch ring! LOL. I guess they did that just to tease you, Louis!







And on the lower end of the scale, we've had the new Olympus 4/3 mount, Olympus m4/3 mount, Sony NEX mount, and Nikon 1 mount, all of which don't have aperture rings either. Plus, with Pentax's medium format digital system, even though it's still compatible with its older 645 lenses, they chose not to give the newer AF lenses aperture rings either. So clearly, there have been plenty of opportunities for multiple manufacturers to go back to using aperture rings. And each time, they've opted not to do so.

 
As a matter of ergonomics, aperture rings no longer exist on most lenses for good reason.
And yet, on the brand new 12-50 lens Olympus made the decision to add not one, but two buttons to the place where the aperture ring used to be. Almost as if Olympus doesn't agree with you on the ergonomics issue.
There's a bit of a difference between putting buttons on a particular lens, versus putting aperture rings on all of there lenses. You definitely don't see those buttons across their entire lens system.

 
Although there are always exceptions, most people seem to love the Fuji aperture ring, as I loved the Panny one, and I bet future mounts will tend to have them.
I think you missed the point. Canon started the "hey, look, it's electronic, no aperture ring!" deal, and others copied that fashion. I think most people regret it, and if anyone were starting a new high end mount now there would be an aperture ring.
I don't think there are many people who still wish we were still using mechanical aperture rings! Certainly not at the expense of being able to do it electronically by other means. Secondly, there have been new high end mounts introduced since Canon came out with EOS, and they don't have aperture rings. Just take a look at the Leica S2. Or Hasselblad's H3D. Or the Mamiya/Phase One MF system. NONE of which have aperture rings. So what were you saying about "if anyone were starting a new high end mount now there would be an aperture ring"?

Plus, I think if "most people" really did regret not having aperture rings, the manufacturers would have heard about it by now, and they would be offering aperture rings on their lenses. Heck, if you look at the Phase One medium format lens below (third image below), there looks like there's a narrow aperture ring near the lens mount, but they've instead decided to use it as an AF/MF switch ring! LOL. I guess they did that just to tease you, Louis!







And on the lower end of the scale, we've had the new Olympus 4/3 mount, Olympus m4/3 mount, Sony NEX mount, and Nikon 1 mount, all of which don't have aperture rings either. Plus, with Pentax's medium format digital system, even though it's still compatible with its older 645 lenses, they chose not to give the newer AF lenses aperture rings either. So clearly, there have been plenty of opportunities for multiple manufacturers to go back to using aperture rings. And each time, they've opted not to do so.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
 
Although there are always exceptions, most people seem to love the Fuji aperture ring, as I loved the Panny one, and I bet future mounts will tend to have them.
You have to remember that the Fuji X-Pro1 is heavily driven by retro considerations, both aesthetic and functional. They really want you to feel like you're using an old-school camera from a bygone era. That's definitely part of its appeal. After all, how many camera designs basically said, "We need an old-school self-timer lever on the front of the camera, even though we'll make it serve a different function." Heck, I'm surprised they didn't also put a fake film advance lever on the camera, as well. Maybe we'll get that on the X-Pro2.
 
I'm actually torn on this one. I have pre-orders on both. And I already have a lot of m43 lenses. I also have a Canon system, which I use when I want the best IQ. But, at the end of the day, the m43 gets much more use.

There are a couple of things I'm thinking -- and yes, they are a bit inconsistent.

1. the fuji's IQ looks amazing. The reports on its AF are troubling. And the size seems like it may cross that threshold where I won't carry it around anymore.

2. high ISO/low light (people shots) matter to me. The OM-D sort of worries me in this regard when I see samples. And it seems not much smaller than the fuji, despite the smaller sensor. But the AF I'm sure will be good, and I have a 12/25/45 prime lineup already.

So, I think I want the fuji, but know I should probably get the OM-D.

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Brian. Too much stuff; not enough stuff.
 
A few points.....

1) The difference in quality between an APS-C and m4/3 sensor will rarely be noticeable, and when it is, the differences will be slight.
Debatable. The X-Pro1 sensor is not only larger though, it lacks AA filter, which could potentially make the difference massive.
2) The sensor has nothing to do with bokeh. That's all on the lenses. The sensor size does determine depth of field (and amount of background blur), but that is different than bokeh (DOF/background blur is the amount of blur, bokeh is the quality of the blur). The differences in background blur between APS-C and 4/3 is not very much.
With a 35 mm on the 4/3 and a 50 mm on the APS-C and a subject distance of 2 meters and f/2.8 aperture the 4/3 has a DOF of 27 cm and the APS-C has 18 cm, not insignificant.
But 2.8 is irrelevant, if the μ43 can shoot at f/2. And there's no reason why it can't. The DOF difference would only matter is we were talking about apertures below f/1.4 because other μ43 can always go larger.
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--Mike
 
I'm with Louis. I love manual aperture rings.
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--Mike
 

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