will the D800E give you Pentax 645D type images ?

Started Mar 5, 2012 | Discussions thread
Jon Rty Veteran Member • Posts: 3,838
Re: will the D800E give you Pentax 645D type images ?

Sure it does.

If the applications they're being used for is large prints, then I agree, they produce better results, assuming you're using a higher resolution MF kit. Other than that, you're hard-pressed to find anything quantifiable where MF is better.

You saying that they produce genuinely better image quality isn't much of a argument. Period.

Sensor performance can be quantified. SNR. DR. Color accuracy. Tonal range. And of course resolution. And in all categories outside of resolution, MF sensors are woeful compared to contemporary DSLR sensor per area. In some categories, the vast difference in sensor size has been enough to compensate, which means that the IQ180 does outperform for instance the D3x in some metrics. But the D800 is another matter completely. The reason why you don't see pros using them is because it isn't available yet.

DSLRs were CCD in the past, but as CMOS sensors outperformed them, all major manufacturers switched. It did however require significant investment to switch, something the low yield MF business couldn't justify. While the larger sensor of the 645D will give you about a stop shallower DOF, lenses are more than a stop faster on DSLRs.

That's just the way it is.

The fact that the DSLR sensors sell in the millions, while MF sensors sell in the thousands is very relevant. R&D costs can be spread over a thousand times large volume, and revenue is also thousand times larger, meaning that much more can be invested. MF cameras can't be priced lower, because manufacturers are struggling to keep on as it is. The total market for MF gear is some thousands a year, and even if every single one of them were IQ180s, that would still only be a couple of hundred million a year in revenue. A the revenue from the D4 alone is more than that, not to mention the real sellers.

I believe that that's your opinion. I also know that you'll be hard-pressed to find anything quantifiable to back that up.

topstuff wrote:

With respect , your point does not really work out in reality.

I work in the marketing & publishing business and we work with a lot of pro's.

Cameras like the 645D and the Leica S2, let alone the Hasselblad/Mamiya crew, produce a genuinely better image quality for the applications they are being used for.

Period.

Pro's are unsentimental about their gear ( although a few Leica users do seem to have a love affair with their S2's ! ) and the reality is that if they think the D800 would be better for a job then they would use it. And for some work I have no doubt that they will.

There is another point to consider - the 645D uses a different sensor tech. It is not just about size of sensor ( 1.7x the size of 35m FF) , but also that the 645D is a CCD rather than a CMOS. There is no doubt that a CCD sensor renders images "differently" to CMOS.

If you take the fact that the 645D is CCD. Add on the fact that the sensor is much larger and then add on the fact that DOF is completely different, you are left with the reality that the D800 will NEVER produce 645D like images.

That is just the way it is.

And your point about volumes sold by Canikon is not really relevant. Sure, canikon sell tens of thousands of units each month. But they are all consumer-priced items ( even a D4 ) and built down to a price so that they are relatively affordable.

MF cameras do not have to even try to be priced at a consumer level ( they are professional tools, much like a farmer spending $300,000 on a combine harvester) and so they are not so affected by the need to keep costs down. And built in obsolescence is not such a factor - many pro's may keep their MF gear for many years.

Believe me. MF digital files are a revelation compared to DSLR to work with. There is no contest unless you are into shooting sports in low light or other specialities.

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