SD1 lens concerns

Alf

If I am looking for a Zeiss Distagon 28mm to convert, but I do not have access to metal working tools, what would you recommend if I am prepared to spend up to US$300 total?

Is this one suitable, for example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZEISS-DISTAGON-28mm-f2-8-T-C-Y-/320850927153?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item4ab4349e31#ht_598wt_1109

Thanks

John
Sorry for the late reply John...Just got your email so went back and found your reply.

Yes, that looks like a MM version so it should be a good candidate for conversion and it should be easier than my AE version. The chrome aperture dial is not feature I've seen on one before but it should'nt matter. I will assume that the C/Y mounting plate on this lens is the exact same diameter as an SA mounting plate, as is the case with the 85mm f1.4 Planar T*...I cant be sure about it as mines an AE version but I will assume that is the case anyway.

First you will need a clean towel, decent set of micro posidrive/philips screwdrivers, an electric drill, a drill stand (a necessity!), a 1mm to 1.5mm drill bit, a small countersink bit and of course an SA mounting plate. If you cant get a genuine SA mounting plate, an M42-SA adapter can be used as a substitute, but avoid the ultra cheap chinese made versions as their front flange is so thin you probably wont be able to fully contersink the head of the securing screws into it...And they need to be flush or the lens wont fit!
That should be all the tools and materials you will need to convert it.

Place your clean towel on your table and place the lens onto it with the rear mounting plate facing upwards. (The reason for using a towel is that any screws you drop will stay exactly where they drop and not roll away onto your floor!) Try not to lift the lens off the towel at any point during the conversion in case you lose something critical like the tiny ballbearing which sits under the aperture dial and/or its associated tiny spring, which together control the click stops when you turn the aperture dial.

Note the four mounting plate securing holes around the outer rear flange on the C/Y mounting plate. Undo and remove these with the correct size micro philips screwdriver (dont use one that is too small or it can strip the screwdriver crossheads in the heads of the screws and if that happens its game over!)

You should now find that the mounting plate simply lifts off the back of the lens. Do not lift the aperture dial off the lens! , just lift off the mounting plate. Keep the screws safe as you will need them later to hold the SA mounting plate on.

Make sure you note down the top dead center position of the plate when its mounted on a camera (Normally the numbers on the aperture dial face upwards when the lens in mounted) and which way round it goes before you take it off in case you ever want to put it back on later for some reason.

If it still cant be lifted off then remove the other three screws that are closer to the middle axis of the mounting plate too (they probably hold the bezel ring on...The ring that keeps dust out of the lens during focussing). Remove the bezel ring then try lifting the plate off again.

Once the C/Y mounting plate is off the lens you will then have to use it as a drill template, ie: you have to very accurately transfer the positions of the four securing holes in the C/Y plate onto the SA plate or M42-SA adapter. You will find it far easier if you find something short and cylinderical like an HP2 battery which both plates can be pressed onto to keep them perfectly central to one another. The battery will probably be a lot smaller than the bore of the two plates so simply wrap some PVC tape around the battery until its very tight fit when you try to push the plates onto it.

One plate might need more tape than the other as the bore diameters will probably be different. Make sure the SA plate is the same way up as the C/Y plate when you do this (both should have the flanges facing down) or the securing holes in the lens wont line up with those in the SA plate!) Fit the SA plate or M42-SA adapter, on its own onto your Sigma camera until it locks and using a fine permanent marker mark the top dead centre position on the plate. Now remove it and press it onto the battery/mandrel followed by the C/Y plate, making sure the top dead centre marks on both line up perfectly. If you added enough tape and the fit is tight enough to keep them from moving you can now go ahead and very carefully drill your four new securing holes in the SA plate underneath by drilling through the holes in the C/Y plate on top...You must make sure they do not move about at all when you do this as you need to drill them to a high accuracy.
If all goes well, you can now remove the SA plate from your Battery/mandril and

countersink the securing holes you just drilled with your countersink bit...Make sure you countersink the correct side of the SA plate! Now, assuming your drilling was accurate, you should now be able to fit the SA plate onto the lens the right way up

and screw it down. If the screws are a little too short now, dont worry you can buy longer ones from most good modelling or ironmonger shops...You need 10ba screws.
 
A well known seller in the UK lists 37 lenses for the SA mount, with about 15 fixed focal length lenses. Perhaps you could show some photographic evidence for your claims showing each lens on the SD1 over a variety of apertures, distances etc.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/
If not then I'll have to assume you're just spouting your usual Sigma marketing guff.
Sorry, I post real images, not marketing. I'll assume you are just posting assertions of which you know nothing...
As an aside didn't Sigma themselves acknowledge that most of their lenses weren't up to scratch ? If so then you need to check with head office so you are both singing from the same hymn sheet,
Just like that. No link I see, rather humorous after you asked me for one. So at this point what credibility would a reader place in you?
Nick

EDIT - I seem to remember as well another post of yours where you spopke about faults with other prime lenses than the 30, though it may be that I'm mistaken about that and I lack the patience to search for it. If I'm mistaken then I apologise if I'm wrong.
The issue is that I do not have access to EVERY prime, so I cannot say for sure exactly how well some of the other ones work (or not). But generally the primes have a pretty high level of quality and you could assume they would be decent.

The 30mm is a special case because I have been shooting with it for years, and even on other cameras the edges could be off at times which I knew from prior experience. But the center is still decent as I said, and when you have enough MP to crop then you can simply shoot to crop a bit.

--
---> Kendall
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home
 
30mm x 1.5 = 45mm.

You've seriously never shot portraits with a 50mm lens?

Not to mention that because the 30mm edges would be soft, I would probably drop 10% around the edges if I wanted to keep everything sharp across the frame.

The Bokeh is really nice, that's the main reason I like the lens... and really that's one of the more important things for portraits anyway.

--
---> Kendall
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kigiphoto/
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home
 
Alf

If I am looking for a Zeiss Distagon 28mm to convert, but I do not have access to metal working tools, what would you recommend if I am prepared to spend up to US$300 total?

Is this one suitable, for example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZEISS-DISTAGON-28mm-f2-8-T-C-Y-/320850927153?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item4ab4349e31#ht_598wt_1109

Thanks

John
Sorry for the late reply John...Just got your email so went back and found your reply.

Yes, that looks like a MM version so it should be a good candidate for conversion and it should be easier than my AE version. The chrome aperture dial is not feature I've seen on one before but it should'nt matter. I will assume that the C/Y mounting plate on this lens is the exact same diameter as an SA mounting plate, as is the case with the 85mm f1.4 Planar T*...I cant be sure about it as mines an AE version but I will assume that is the case anyway.

First you will need a clean towel, decent set of micro posidrive/philips screwdrivers, an electric drill, a drill stand (a necessity!), a 1mm to 1.5mm drill bit, a small countersink bit and of course an SA mounting plate. If you cant get a genuine SA mounting plate, an M42-SA adapter can be used as a substitute, but avoid the ultra cheap chinese made versions as their front flange is so thin you probably wont be able to fully contersink the head of the securing screws into it...And they need to be flush or the lens wont fit!
That should be all the tools and materials you will need to convert it.
Dear Alf,

This is extremely helpful. Two more naive questions:

Would obtaining a genuine SA mounting plate mean taking one from a broken SA mount lens?

For using an adapter, is it just thickness I need to worry about? There seem to be straight aluminum and black anodized aluminum adapters, but I cannot tell which ones might be thick enough

Thanks greatly for your help

John
 
Alf

If I am looking for a Zeiss Distagon 28mm to convert, but I do not have access to metal working tools, what would you recommend if I am prepared to spend up to US$300 total?

Is this one suitable, for example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZEISS-DISTAGON-28mm-f2-8-T-C-Y-/320850927153?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item4ab4349e31#ht_598wt_1109

Thanks

John
Sorry for the late reply John...Just got your email so went back and found your reply.

Yes, that looks like a MM version so it should be a good candidate for conversion and it should be easier than my AE version. The chrome aperture dial is not feature I've seen on one before but it should'nt matter. I will assume that the C/Y mounting plate on this lens is the exact same diameter as an SA mounting plate, as is the case with the 85mm f1.4 Planar T*...I cant be sure about it as mines an AE version but I will assume that is the case anyway.

First you will need a clean towel, decent set of micro posidrive/philips screwdrivers, an electric drill, a drill stand (a necessity!), a 1mm to 1.5mm drill bit, a small countersink bit and of course an SA mounting plate. If you cant get a genuine SA mounting plate, an M42-SA adapter can be used as a substitute, but avoid the ultra cheap chinese made versions as their front flange is so thin you probably wont be able to fully contersink the head of the securing screws into it...And they need to be flush or the lens wont fit!
That should be all the tools and materials you will need to convert it.
Dear Alf,

This is extremely helpful. Two more naive questions:

Would obtaining a genuine SA mounting plate mean taking one from a broken SA mount lens?
Yes, or even a fully functioning one because its mounting plate will be of much better use on a decent quality Zeiss prime ;)
For using an adapter, is it just thickness I need to worry about? There seem to be straight aluminum and black anodized aluminum adapters, but I cannot tell which ones might be thick enough
Any of the Aluminium ones should be fine because they generally have a thicker front flange than the cheap Chinese made ones, which are made from Chrome plated Brass.

If you can find one of the Polish made Aluminium versions which have a secondary flange built in the base of the adapter to compress the AA pin found on most M42 lenses, then I would'nt use one of those as an SA mount substitute as that flange could get in the way of the rear element on some lenses...But I would certainly recommend you get at least one Polish made M42-SA adapter to allow you to use M42 lenses because they are one of the M42-SA adapters I do recommend, along with the Japanese JTAT version.
Thanks greatly for your help

John
No probs.
 
That's why the classic portrait lenses are 85 - 135 mm. Anything less than that and things like noses get distorted and look larger than they should - which is why ML suggested everyone would look like Pinnochio ;-)

Nick
 
That's why the classic portrait lenses are 85 - 135 mm. Anything less than that and things like noses get distorted and look larger than they should - which is why ML suggested everyone would look like Pinnochio ;-)
It depends on what kind of portrait you do.

If it is a close up, just head and shoulders, and you dont want the nearness feeling you get with a normal lens, you need something longer. A 50 or 70 mm for APS-C is ideal.

But if its a whole body portrait. Then 35 mm (50 mm on FF) is very nice. With a 70 mm (105 mm on FF) you have to step away so far that you lose the contact IMHO.

--
Roland

support http://www.openraw.org/
(Sleeping - so the need to support it is even higher)

X3F tools : http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html
 
Sorry I should have been clearer.

Personally I consider portraits as head and shoulders or tighter, not whole body photos. Obviously not everyone feels the same ;-) For the latter then then something around 50mm equivalent is fine, and you won't get facial distortions, as you would with the former,

Nick
 
I agree. This is also my main concern which could discourage me from buying the SD1.

In the tele range Sigma has many top quality lenses, which should suit even the most demanding users, and in the wide-angle range the 8-16mm seems to be pretty good.

But in my opinion Sigma simply doesn't have any normal/general purpose lenses (zoom and primes) to take full advantage of the demanding sensor in the SD1.

The best general purpose zoom is probably the "17-50mm f/2.8 EX", which is ok, but not as good as the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 (non OS version) for example.

The 30mm 1.4 prime is more like a niche lens with good center performance wide open, and very poor edge performance.

The problem I think is more with Sigma's position as a third party lens manufacturer.

It would not be economically wise for them to make something like a high quality 35mm prime, since both Canon and Nikon (and others) has many such lenses, and it would be hard to sell such a standard lens to Canon and Nikon lenses.

For that reason it is probably most profitable for them to make lenses that fill the holes in other manufacturers lineups, or offer extra features like macro for less money, or more affordable standard zooms like the 17-70mm.

Unfortunately this leaves SD1 users without any good standard lenses.
 
Hi

Prompted by the price drop of the Sd1 I have revisited here and I must say am really enjoying conversing and learning a thing or to!

Anyway

I am very interested in the Sd1 as it would seem to really suite my needs, I am a simple, slow working, 3 lens guy and a moderate wide / standard / short tele prime set up would do me nicely. Suggested UK retail is still too pricey though.

However this post by Kendal buried in another thread has me a bit worried.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=40642786

From reading various threads here Kendal has extensive experience and if true that an SD1 is unlikely have a standard prime equal to it's sensor or indeed the DP2m then without any other reasonable options it could be a deal breaker for me.
Surely a really good standard prime is not too much to ask?
Dont worry, there are plenty of them out there...They just are'nt made by Sigma though ;)
Look for high quality normal primes from Leica, Carl Zeiss, Nikon and Canon.

My favorite normal is my old 1960's vintage Canon FL 55mm f1.2, which I converted to SA mount.

I also have the Carl Zeiss 50mm f1.7 Planar T*, which has stellar MTF score of 4.6 (Thats better than the Zeiss 50mm f1.4 Planar T*), and the old Canon is easily its equal when stopped down...However, the Zeiss is made of plastic and feels cheaply made (which it is of course, because it was a budget Zeiss lens), but the Canon is all metal and feels fantastic in the hand and of course the Zeiss cant go to f1.2...So its no contest! ;)
Wide angle I can understand, corner issues etc but from what I have seen of the 30mm 1.4 I'm not too impressed.
Dont forget that the Sigma 30mm EX is designed for 1.7x crop format...It can handle 1.6x crop on a Canon DSLR but 1.5x crop is pushing its emvelope...Lower res Nikon DSLR's with a 1.5x crop can just about get away with it because they all have a lower res than the SD1.
 
It would not be economically wise for them to make something like a high quality 35mm prime, since both Canon and Nikon (and others) has many such lenses, and it would be hard to sell such a standard lens to Canon and Nikon lenses.
The Sigma 50mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4 are high quality 35mm primes
 
It would not be economically wise for them to make something like a high quality 35mm prime, since both Canon and Nikon (and others) has many such lenses, and it would be hard to sell such a standard lens to Canon and Nikon lenses.
The Sigma 50mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4 are high quality 35mm primes
They are, as is the 50mm macro and the 70mm macro, but what is being referred to here is 35mm focal length not 35mm format. Slight misunderstanding.

Richard
--
Formally posting as 'Blissfly'
 
It would not be economically wise for them to make something like a high quality 35mm prime, since both Canon and Nikon (and others) has many such lenses, and it would be hard to sell such a standard lens to Canon and Nikon lenses.
The Sigma 50mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4 are high quality 35mm primes
They are, as is the 50mm macro and the 70mm macro, but what is being referred to here is 35mm focal length not 35mm format. Slight misunderstanding.

Richard
--
Formally posting as 'Blissfly'
They dont make any 135mm prime lenses either, which is a shame because its a very useful focal length on crop format.

My old Sigma-made Sigmatel Multi Scalematic 135mm 1.8 proves they can do it, but they obviously choose not to anymore. Its a fantastic lens at f4-f5.6...Here is one from Yesterday, handheld @ f4 on the SD14 (shop was about 100m away):



And a 100% crop:

 

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