teleconverter for birding?

Mo Kwart

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I have the Canon 70-200 f4 L and love it. I have never used teleconverters and would like to double my reach to allow me more bird and nature photography.
1) What are the limitations of teleconverters?
2) Who likes them and why?
3) Is a Canon converter the only proper way to go?
Thanks,
Mo



 
I should have mentioned with the questions in the previous post that I am shooting with a 50D.
Thanks again,
Mo
 
With a 50D and your lens, if you use a Canon teleconverter it won't autofocus unless you tape pins and then autofocus is haphazard. You could use a third party teleconverter and hope to get autofocus. Perhaps others can discuss this.
 
With a 50D and your lens, if you use a Canon teleconverter it won't autofocus unless you tape pins and then autofocus is haphazard.
Only true for a 2X extender. A 1.4X extender should AF without taping pins.
 
The Canon and Kenko 1.4x will work well with little difference between them.

A 2x will only AF with a 1 series body and even then the AF is too slow to use for birds in flight. I have only used the Canon 2x - Its good for static birds but does require post processing to remove chromatic abberation.

Here is link to my Galpagos penguin shot. I used the 70-200 with a 2x because I was shooting from a crowded zodiac boat that would have made my 800mm impractical. The 1Ds mkIII allowed AF despite the f8 maximum aperture with the converter.
http://www.dpphotoimages.com/galapgall/galapagos_penguin.html

--
Dave Peters
http://www.dpphotoimages.com
 
I have the Canon 70-200 f4 L and love it. I have never used teleconverters and would like to double my reach to allow me more bird and nature photography.
1) What are the limitations of teleconverters?
speed, resolution and contrast loss, slower or no AF.
2) Who likes them and why?
when you need more reach in a pocket and/or don't have longer glass
3) Is a Canon converter the only proper way to go?
no, for your glass that is F4 I'll use a kenko dgx mc4 2.0X, for what it costs (I have found it at £80) it has a lot to offer, it will also (try to) AF without tape on the pins

I find it really useful on F2.8 glass, I have no slower glass to try it, but in the manual it's reported to AF on F4 glass and if you search on the forum many are able to use it also on slower glasses
 
I have the Canon 70-200 f4 L and love it. I have never used teleconverters and would like to double my reach to allow me more bird and nature photography.
1) What are the limitations of teleconverters?
They multiply not only your focal lenght, the also multiply the f-number. A 1.4x turns an 4/200 lens into a 5.6/280 and a 2x into a 8/400. So you need a shorter shutter speed to avoid camera shake because of the longer focal lenght but takes away the option of opening the aperture. So you have to use high ISOs or a tripod more often.

It also interferes with phase-detect AF systems for which the effective aperture is a physical limitation. The AF system of the 50D only supports lens/converter combinations up to f/5.6. Beyond that it deactivates the AF if it detects the converter because it can't uphold speed and precision. There are non-reporting converters marketed under the name of Kenko/Soligor/etc. (some models, nor all of them). Or you can tape some pins on the converter. Thus the camera does not know the true aperture and tries to focus. Depending on the combination of lens, converter and camera the results vary widely. Some can be worth the try others not.

Mounted on a tripod you can use liveview to focus manually or contrast AF (if your camera offers this) which is not physically affected by the aperture.

Also, if the camera detects an extender it slows down the AF speed to uphold precision and consistency, a little bit with a 1.4x and a lot with a 2x. When using non-reporting converters or taping the pins the speed might be faster but the hit rate will drop. I also met the problem that a non reporting converter on a f/2.8 lens left the AF sensor for f/2.8 or faster lenses active which couldn't cope with the effective f/4 aperture.

Oh, coverters often introduce some back or front focus. With reporting converters you can save different MFAs for the bare lens and the extender combinations. With non-reporting/taping you might have to adjust MFA whenever you add or remove the extender.

Canon extenders have a protruding lens element that has to fit into the rear of the lens. So you can use them only with long L lenses (your lens is compatible) and you can't stack them unless the one in front is a 2xII.
2) Who likes them and why?
I like them because I can turn my excellent 4/500L IS into a 700mm and 1000mm depending on the situation. There is no zoom lens covering this range within the same weight class. I am a little less impressed with converters on the 2.8/300L IS (maybe I have a sub-par sample) and disgusted with them on a 100-400L.

Converters 'stretch' the image and enlarge all the faults of the lens in front. If the IQ of the bare lens is excellent wide open expect great results with a 1.4x and adequate to good results with a 2x. With the latter it often helps to stop down a bit. If the lens is less than excellent, results with TCs are less positive too.

On top of the side effects of 'stretching' the image the additional lens elements degrade contrast and bokeh, enhance flare/ghosting and might introduce CA (for me one main difference between 2xII and 2xIII).

The 4.0/70-200L IS works very well with 1.4x converters, it easily beats the 70-300IS (non L). I haven't tried it with a 2x. It might do quite well in good light (AF issues aside) but I expect a dedicated 400mm lens to do better.
3) Is a Canon converter the only proper way to go?
No. With 1.4x it doesn't matter too much IQ wise. Go for Canons MKIII extenders when weather sealing is important to you. AF speed and accuracy is more difficult to assess. I litterally put my money on Canon but many others are equally satisfied with Kenkos. Converters are optimized for a certain range of focal lenghts. Many of the third party offerings do better with 200 to 300mm lenses than longer ones (might be different with the Kenko Pro series).

Tinu

--
If the text above reads like real English, it must be a quotation :-)
Some of my pictures: http://www.pbase.com/tinu
 
As others have said, with a doubler your effective f/stop will effectively double to f/8 with the 70-200 f/4. I didn't see this mentioned, but in addition to losing AF the viewfinder will also be darker making manual focus more challenging.

Mark
 
As others have said, with a doubler your effective f/stop will effectively double to f/8 with the 70-200 f/4. I didn't see this mentioned, but in addition to losing AF the viewfinder will also be darker making manual focus more challenging.
with (at least) the kenko dgx it will AF, and the viewfinder will not be much dark in daylight
 
If you want to try it out - go for the Kenko Teleplus Pro 300 DGX series TCs. I have both of them and the 1.4x is on par with the Canon (not as sharp, but somewhat better when it comes to contrast I've found) and the 2.0x will correctly report the focal length and aperture to the lens but will not disable the autofocus capability of your 50D. I can tell you that in good light that lens (which I also own) will work wonderfully with a 1.4x while at 2.0x you'll see some image quality degradation.
 
I had a 1.4 converter on the 70-200 f/2.8. Then went and bought the 400mm f/5.6 and that has a converter on it almost the whole time.

Anything that says 560mm is the 400+1.4 and that's pretty much all the bird images. (the top are the most recent) http://www.pbase.com/billrobinson/wildlife

But then I'd love to own the 500 f/4.

cheers
Bill

Gotta believe in something....I believe I'll take another photo!

http://www.pbase.com/billrobinson
 
I have the Canon 70-200 f4 L and love it. I have never used teleconverters and would like to double my reach to allow me more bird and nature photography.
1) What are the limitations of teleconverters?
They multiply not only your focal lenght, the also multiply the f-number. A 1.4x turns an 4/200 lens into a 5.6/280 and a 2x into a 8/400. So you need a shorter shutter speed to avoid camera shake because of the longer focal lenght but takes away the option of opening the aperture. So you have to use high ISOs or a tripod more often.

It also interferes with phase-detect AF systems for which the effective aperture is a physical limitation. The AF system of the 50D only supports lens/converter combinations up to f/5.6. Beyond that it deactivates the AF if it detects the converter because it can't uphold speed and precision. There are non-reporting converters marketed under the name of Kenko/Soligor/etc. (some models, nor all of them). Or you can tape some pins on the converter. Thus the camera does not know the true aperture and tries to focus. Depending on the combination of lens, converter and camera the results vary widely. Some can be worth the try others not.

Mounted on a tripod you can use liveview to focus manually or contrast AF (if your camera offers this) which is not physically affected by the aperture.

Also, if the camera detects an extender it slows down the AF speed to uphold precision and consistency, a little bit with a 1.4x and a lot with a 2x. When using non-reporting converters or taping the pins the speed might be faster but the hit rate will drop. I also met the problem that a non reporting converter on a f/2.8 lens left the AF sensor for f/2.8 or faster lenses active which couldn't cope with the effective f/4 aperture.

Oh, coverters often introduce some back or front focus. With reporting converters you can save different MFAs for the bare lens and the extender combinations. With non-reporting/taping you might have to adjust MFA whenever you add or remove the extender.

Canon extenders have a protruding lens element that has to fit into the rear of the lens. So you can use them only with long L lenses (your lens is compatible) and you can't stack them unless the one in front is a 2xII.
2) Who likes them and why?
I like them because I can turn my excellent 4/500L IS into a 700mm and 1000mm depending on the situation. There is no zoom lens covering this range within the same weight class. I am a little less impressed with converters on the 2.8/300L IS (maybe I have a sub-par sample) and disgusted with them on a 100-400L.

Converters 'stretch' the image and enlarge all the faults of the lens in front. If the IQ of the bare lens is excellent wide open expect great results with a 1.4x and adequate to good results with a 2x. With the latter it often helps to stop down a bit. If the lens is less than excellent, results with TCs are less positive too.

On top of the side effects of 'stretching' the image the additional lens elements degrade contrast and bokeh, enhance flare/ghosting and might introduce CA (for me one main difference between 2xII and 2xIII).

The 4.0/70-200L IS works very well with 1.4x converters, it easily beats the 70-300IS (non L). I haven't tried it with a 2x. It might do quite well in good light (AF issues aside) but I expect a dedicated 400mm lens to do better.
3) Is a Canon converter the only proper way to go?
No. With 1.4x it doesn't matter too much IQ wise. Go for Canons MKIII extenders when weather sealing is important to you. AF speed and accuracy is more difficult to assess. I litterally put my money on Canon but many others are equally satisfied with Kenkos. Converters are optimized for a certain range of focal lenghts. Many of the third party offerings do better with 200 to 300mm lenses than longer ones (might be different with the Kenko Pro series).

Tinu
Best answer of the day award! Thanks for the effort and clarity (yeah, bad pun when talking converters).
Steve
 
Bill,

I looked at your very beautiful gallery. I think that I see a consistent difference between the 400mm and the 560mm shots - as you said, 400mm or 400mm + 1.4 converter. The 400's are amazingly crisp and detailed. The 560's are almost as good. Am I correct or am I not viewing under conditions good enough to compare?

Also, when using a fixed focal length, either 400 or 560, what do you do when your frame is too full and the subject is not waiting for you to take off your converter? Do you have a second camera on your side or do you just decide that for this hour I am at 400mm and make the best of it?

Thanks very much,
Mo
 
There is not a lot of difference in IQ with the tc attached. The keeper rate without the tc attached is slightly better. Obviously not that much better to prevent me from using the tc. I take multiple bursts to give the camera every chance of catching something sharp.
I do have the 70-200 on a seperate body.

If there are larger birds about, then it does come in handy, but I don't always carry it.

Very rarely do I take off the converter for just one moment and I am more likely to try and move further away if it's possible.

If the moment passes without a photo, and there have been plenty, thems the breaks.

cheers
Bill

Gotta believe in something....I believe I'll take another photo!

http://www.pbase.com/billrobinson
 

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