Puzzling memberships, input request

Started Feb 1, 2012 | Discussions thread
christian jacob
christian jacob Regular Member • Posts: 134
Re: To reply/comment on English speaking...

[snipped stuff, the post got far too long as is]

Slynky wrote:

christian jacob wrote:

DK Baker wrote:

[..]

I won't pretend to understand everyone's motives for requiring a post count in order to enter challenges but I can offer up my own reasons (if I were a host) to do it. I won't retype them--they are listed above. It's to help stop one method of cheating. If I were a host, my satisfaction would be in watching a challenge fill up before the deadline and seeing some good/great photos and the smallest amount of cheating toward the goal of winning. I have NO alternate agenda to limit it to a close circle of "friends". I would welcome entries from the entire world. As I have stated before (in varioius places), I've been to 25 countries and besides the sights, interacting with the different inhabitants was part of the interest. (for example--something near to you--learning that northerners in (W) Germany made fun of their southerners, Bavarians, much as northerners look down on southerners in the US ;)).

I am a "Rheinländer"[1] living half my live in Bavaria (Niederbayern, to be exact, the hard core version), so I am living that

Please understand that I was going for a more generalised "use vs them" then nationalism; I was more speaking about "us here in this forum" vs "those who doesn't post message after message here".

A portuguese was for a short time (and will be again, I guess) the most active poster.

And as a counter point, digital alfredo had, as far as i can remember (his profile is now gone), quite a lot messages, and it wouldn't have been a problem for him to write some message under his other personas.

An analagy (that may or may not fit well). Countries/states require people to be a certain age before they are allowed to drive a vehicle. I think it is obvious that some people should never be allowed on a public highway while others have the maturity and skill to drive a car before they reach that minimum age. Yet, the rule exists--you must be a certain age before you can drive. I don't see much difference in requiring, say, 25 posts in a forum before you can drive, errrr, I mean enter challenges ;).

I got that, but I think it is a measure which penalizes ones who doesn't deserve that; also, as a simple count, there is not accounting for quality of the posts -- a troll or one unable to google would have less problems to clear it than others.

I would also add, as I said above, since all the challenge rules and descriptions are written in English, it would seem to be a bad argument to say something like, "all people don't speak english and that's why they might not be participating in the forums" and yet, they must have a pretty good grasp of English in order to understand and enter challenges correctly.

You overlook, as someone who, i guess, isn't surrounded by language other than his native one, that understanding/reading a foreign language is far easier than actively using it.

Long time ago I started to only buy english books, if that is the original language, and watch films/tv series in english; I understand it rather good I'd guess.

But now, typing this, I have to look up every ninth word, even if i would have no problems understanding reading it (difference between active and passive vocabulary), and, for instance I never know if it's "then" or "than" (I guess I made a few errors in this post already). And my sentence structure may be rather atrocious and too german.

It may be a prejudice, but i have the feeling that other cultures are more self-concious about showing mistakes in public, so it may be an unfair hurdle.

In the end analysis, there are plenty of challenges to enter. If some turn out to require a post count before you can enter, then each person (even those shy English-speaking people ;)) needs to decide how important it is to be able to enter all challenges or not and participate or not. In my opinion, the more serious a person is about their photography, the better it is to exchange ideas in forums anyway.

I often look at the profiles of challenge winners, and often the americans also don't have that much messages (but, as USA is the default country, they may not be americans)

Writing/speaking is not the same skill set as photographing, and people willing to have their pictures criticised may not feel the same about their language skills (and, as you have written, this is not the place to learn about proper english).

I have problems describing why, in my opinion, a photo is great even in my native language; one thing is visual, I just see it, the other is language, a whole other world in my mind.

Also, the moment you begin to describe something using words, your perception changes; you start using preconceived rules and such, and judging a photo by them, even if often the breaking of such rules can make for a better or at least more original picture. So talking about photos can sometimes be detrimental to understanding them.

All in all, for me it would be nothing more than a nuisance for the cheater, but more than that for honest, but not that extroverted people.

For Usenet (RIP) it was an educated guess that for every active poster there were ten or more lurkers, I don't think it has changed that much for net fora.

What challenges need are more fair participants (even more cheaters could cancel each other out, all in all diminishing their effect at least at sandbagging), well, more voters, so always saying challenges are now hopless is worsening the problem; not doing anything is even worse, but this "the sky is falling" isn't really productive either.

[...]

[1] even more complicated, but that's rather offtopic

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