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Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. But then you will need two control wheels instead of one !

I think it will be more or less the same, but there are more choices on the mode dial than with the dual exposure wheels.
dotborg said:
rrr_hhh said:
How are you going to change quickly from Aperture priority to shutter priority without it ? Not with the aperture/ shutter button.
Click to expand...
I believe that Jogger is referring to the recently announced Fujifilm X-Pro 1. The shutter and aperture dials both have an "A" (auto) setting. If you want aperture priority then you set the shutter speed dial to "A". If you want shutter priority then you set the aperture dial to "A". If you want full auto then you set both to "A".

Personally, I don't see much difference in use between that and having a mode dial. I mean, one isn't going to provide a better shooting experience over the other.

--
http://www.pbase.com/dot_borg
Click to expand...
--
rrr_hhh
 
If it does not have pop-up flash, that will be a mistake by Olympus.

Comparing it to pro cameras doesn't make sense. It will be semi-pro at best, and plenty of semi-pro cameras have pop-up flash. Also, it's not as if there's never been a pro camera with this feature.

Is it just me, or does the EVF/hot shoe look detachable/modular?
 
dotborg said:
SirSeth said:
... is something I can live with out. It's an emergency quick and dirty half-solution: for me at least.
Click to expand...
A popup flash is very nice to have for triggering remote speed-lights, so you don't have to carry another flash just to be used as a trigger.
Click to expand...
Kodak did it just right with its P880 prosumer camera. The pop-up was there for fill-in, family snaps, etc., located in the pseudo prism hump right above the lens. Kodak also produced a very nicely sized dedicated accessory flash you could fit in the hot shoe immediately behind the pop-up.

BUT when you had the accessory flash fitted, you could also still use the pop-up flash so you could provide a little direct light, if you wished, when bouncing the accessory flash. Very neat design and very useful.

Cheers, geoff
--
Geoffrey Heard
http://pngtimetraveller.blogspot.com/2011/10/return-to-karai-komana_31.html
 
Louis_Dobson said:
Without wishing to be argumentative, I never understand a) why so many people are obsessed with high ISO and b) why they take any interest in an FT sensor, which is never going to be much cop at that.

I'm interested in its behaviour at ISO200 (or 160, or whatever). It should match the GH2, and that's more than enough.
Click to expand...
I agree. Less noise at hi ISO is nice but I want less shadow noise at base ISO than the E-P3 currently has.

--
http://www.pbase.com/dot_borg
 
Neither my E3 nor D3 have mode wheels, and I regard that as fine. I want instant access to aperture, exp comp, ISO and focus point. Or, if you like, three control wheels and a controller, operating those functions as a default. Everything else major, press dedicated button and spin control wheel. Minor stuff, in the menus.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
 
Louis_Dobson said:
Neither my E3 nor D3 have mode wheels, and I regard that as fine. I want instant access to aperture, exp comp, ISO and focus point. Or, if you like, three control wheels and a controller, operating those functions as a default. Everything else major, press dedicated button and spin control wheel. Minor stuff, in the menus.
--
Click to expand...
What you want and what everyone else wants doesn't always match up. Yes, I'd like instant access to the things you've listed, but I'd also like instant access to a manual video mode, a custom mode with bracketing set up and a shutter priority mode.

The idea of 3 dials, one for each setting, doesn't sound bad. But that means to change from fully manual to aperture priority you've got to turn 2 control wheels. How's that better than the 1 that we have to turn currently?
 
Press a mode button, spin a wheel. What's wrong with that?

There is limited space on a camera, and I don't want to lose a great swathe of it to a control that is secondary...

One does not change the mode with every shot normally, unlike A , ExP, and (possibly) ISO, which are constantly being changed on the fly.
Dheorl said:
Louis_Dobson said:
Neither my E3 nor D3 have mode wheels, and I regard that as fine. I want instant access to aperture, exp comp, ISO and focus point. Or, if you like, three control wheels and a controller, operating those functions as a default. Everything else major, press dedicated button and spin control wheel. Minor stuff, in the menus.
--
Click to expand...
What you want and what everyone else wants doesn't always match up. Yes, I'd like instant access to the things you've listed, but I'd also like instant access to a manual video mode, a custom mode with bracketing set up and a shutter priority mode.

The idea of 3 dials, one for each setting, doesn't sound bad. But that means to change from fully manual to aperture priority you've got to turn 2 control wheels. How's that better than the 1 that we have to turn currently?
Click to expand...
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
 
Louis_Dobson said:
Press a mode button, spin a wheel. What's wrong with that?

There is limited space on a camera, and I don't want to lose a great swathe of it to a control that is secondary...

One does not change the mode with every shot normally, unlike A , ExP, and (possibly) ISO, which are constantly being changed on the fly.
Click to expand...
I can change 2 of the three with 1 wheel already and ISO is hardly a challenge to acess.

I'd much rather have the mode dial but I guess it's personal prefrence.
 
Hen3ry said:
dotborg said:
SirSeth said:
... is something I can live with out. It's an emergency quick and dirty half-solution: for me at least.
Click to expand...
A popup flash is very nice to have for triggering remote speed-lights, so you don't have to carry another flash just to be used as a trigger.
Click to expand...
Kodak did it just right with its P880 prosumer camera. The pop-up was there for fill-in, family snaps, etc., located in the pseudo prism hump right above the lens. Kodak also produced a very nicely sized dedicated accessory flash you could fit in the hot shoe immediately behind the pop-up.

BUT when you had the accessory flash fitted, you could also still use the pop-up flash so you could provide a little direct light, if you wished, when bouncing the accessory flash. Very neat design and very useful.

Cheers, geoff
--
Geoffrey Heard
http://pngtimetraveller.blogspot.com/2011/10/return-to-karai-komana_31.html
Click to expand...
Unfortunately for Kodak, the P880 was the last thing they did right. They should've migrated to m4/3. They had brilliant engineers, but stupid, greedy executives and managers did them in.
 
Cephalotus said:
Louis_Dobson said:
The E-PM1 solution is fine. Small plug in one.
Click to expand...
no it isn't
Click to expand...
+1

Removing the grip and flash was senseless, but Oly seem obsessed with copying NEX.

E-PL2 was much better. Flash is there when you need it. E-PM1 flash is not small. When you add the flash, it's a more awkward shape than E-PL2, so why bother? And your hot shoe is unavailable for other accessories.

Last year Oly released 3 PENs on the same day, and all 3 missed their marks, badly. They need to re-think and reposition the entire line.
 
Louis_Dobson said:
Press a mode button, spin a wheel. What's wrong with that?
Click to expand...
That's the Canon approach. Having used EOS gear for years, and now a GH2, I can say I much prefer the instant visual feedback of the mode I'm selecting, and have selected, over Canon's approach. Especially on small bodies like m43, which don't have room for top mounted LCDs. With the GH2 I can, at a glance, see what mode I'm in, whether I'm in single shot, continuous, or exp. bracketing, and what focus mode is selected. With the button and dial approach, I'd have to look through the viewfinder or make sure the LCD was on and displaying the proper information to tell.

It's the difference between a camera and an iPhone. I have no issues with menus on my computer, but until my camera has a 20" or larger screen and a mouse, I'd prefer to set my key control options with dedicated controls.

--

Bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas of an image, or the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light. Bokeh is not the same as depth of field (DOF).
 
Mk7 said:
+1

Removing the grip and flash was senseless, but Oly seem obsessed with copying NEX.

E-PL2 was much better. Flash is there when you need it. E-PM1 flash is not small. When you add the flash, it's a more awkward shape than E-PL2, so why bother? And your hot shoe is unavailable for other accessories.

Last year Oly released 3 PENs on the same day, and all 3 missed their marks, badly. They need to re-think and reposition the entire line.
Click to expand...
To each his own, I guess, but I love the E-PM1. I love that I only need to carry the flash when I'm actually going to use it, keeping the body itself small. Better still, I love that I can grab the clip-in and the FL-300R as a very capable, very small RC lighting setup.

But of course, the OM-1 (or whatever) is a large body, so there's no reason to make this compromise, and a pop-up can at times be useful as more than a glorified RC trigger.

I'm glad my GH2 has a flash, and I'm glad that the E-PM1 doesn't.
 
Hen3ry said:
dotborg said:
SirSeth said:
... is something I can live with out. It's an emergency quick and dirty half-solution: for me at least.
Click to expand...
A popup flash is very nice to have for triggering remote speed-lights, so you don't have to carry another flash just to be used as a trigger.
Click to expand...
Kodak did it just right with its P880 prosumer camera. The pop-up was there for fill-in, family snaps, etc., located in the pseudo prism hump right above the lens. Kodak also produced a very nicely sized dedicated accessory flash you could fit in the hot shoe immediately behind the pop-up.

BUT when you had the accessory flash fitted, you could also still use the pop-up flash so you could provide a little direct light, if you wished, when bouncing the accessory flash. Very neat design and very useful.
Click to expand...
Olympus had this at their E-300 (and E330?), but people considered those ugly so they had to give up the E-3xx series and make more conventional looking E-500 and E-400
 
Louis_Dobson said:
Without wishing to be argumentative, I never understand a) why so many people are obsessed with high ISO and b) why they take any interest in an FT sensor, which is never going to be much cop at that.

I'm interested in its behaviour at ISO200 (or 160, or whatever). It should match the GH2, and that's more than enough.
Click to expand...
Indoor photography is one reason. I often have to go to ISO 2500 or 3200 to get reasonable shutter speeds, even at ff1.7. Better high ISO capability would mean that I get better photos of friends and family.
 
looks like it might be a textured ep3 with a built in EVF hump style, aka a classy olympus version of the GH2
 
I guess all Conon aren't made equal ? Because both on my D60 and my 5D I had a mode wheel : PASM, bulb, custom and every thing auto.
Bob Meyer said:
Louis_Dobson said:
Press a mode button, spin a wheel. What's wrong with that?
Click to expand...
That's the Canon approach. Having used EOS gear for years, and now a GH2, I can say I much prefer the instant visual feedback of the mode I'm selecting, and have selected, over Canon's approach. Especially on small bodies like m43, which don't have room for top mounted LCDs. With the GH2 I can, at a glance, see what mode I'm in, whether I'm in single shot, continuous, or exp. bracketing, and what focus mode is selected. With the button and dial approach, I'd have to look through the viewfinder or make sure the LCD was on and displaying the proper information to tell.

It's the difference between a camera and an iPhone. I have no issues with menus on my computer, but until my camera has a 20" or larger screen and a mouse, I'd prefer to set my key control options with dedicated controls.

--

Bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas of an image, or the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light. Bokeh is not the same as depth of field (DOF).
Click to expand...
--
rrr_hhh
 
Yes the lack of space for a repeater LCD makes for some nasty compromises. Well, I would prefer no mode dial - I know what mode I'm in, and I prefer less clutter.

However, it's no big deal. If it has a mode dial, [shrug], it has a mode dial.

So long as I can change the exp comp and aperture without having to check to see which one I'm adjusting I shall be happy enough.

In my experience Oly are great at interfaces, but every once in a while they totally screw up. Fingers crossed...
Bob Meyer said:
Louis_Dobson said:
Press a mode button, spin a wheel. What's wrong with that?
Click to expand...
That's the Canon approach. Having used EOS gear for years, and now a GH2, I can say I much prefer the instant visual feedback of the mode I'm selecting, and have selected, over Canon's approach. Especially on small bodies like m43, which don't have room for top mounted LCDs. With the GH2 I can, at a glance, see what mode I'm in, whether I'm in single shot, continuous, or exp. bracketing, and what focus mode is selected. With the button and dial approach, I'd have to look through the viewfinder or make sure the LCD was on and displaying the proper information to tell.

It's the difference between a camera and an iPhone. I have no issues with menus on my computer, but until my camera has a 20" or larger screen and a mouse, I'd prefer to set my key control options with dedicated controls.

--

Bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas of an image, or the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light. Bokeh is not the same as depth of field (DOF).
Click to expand...
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com
 
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