X10 back to the future: the XZ-1 - 30% smaller, lighter, f1.8

As someone who owns and uses both the XZ-1 & X10 I can say the only thing I find missing on the X10 is a 'Bulb' mode and an external connector for attaching a wired remote controller.
The 30 sec max shutter speed and only at ISO100 is unforgivable Fuji.

Especially when I can dial in any shutter speed on the XZ-1 and am not restricted by ISO ranges.... and to top it off I can then add a Remote Timer to do some nice Time-Lapse shooting.

Mike
--
Happy with most Cameras but use:-
Nikon D200 + various differing Lens.
Fuji X10
Olympus XZ-1
Panasonic LX3

Other favs of recent use:
Various Nikon DSLR's,
Canon SX95
Panasonic TZ5, TZ7, TZ10

Wellington100 said:

PerL said:

You dont need to be reminded of the shooting parameters every moment, but there are many times when you are handicapped without viewfinder (shooting in snow, strong sun, backlight, contrasty light, following action etc).

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True enough but don't you think those are the very same conditions where you need to know that the exposure or focus is still spot on as you are about to take the shot? To me, an EVF is the answer to the conditions you mention.

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Yes, but at least it is better to have a viewfinder than to have none.

If you have the optional EVF for the Olympus you need to decide when to take it and when not. Often you might miss it, or you might regret that you bothered to increase the bulk of the camera. There are also some issues with EVFs, but that is a longwinded discussion...

Wellington100 said:

Wellington100 said:

Wellington100 said:

I mean a Kodak Instamatic at the decisive moment as the shot is taken.

--
S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, Z5, V10, D40, EX1

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http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

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S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1

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--
http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

Can the EVF of the XZ-1 be combined with an external flash?

Portuense said:

I used it and I can´t understand it´s practical use other than a backup framing tool for when the sun is too bright. I am a viewfinder guy but unless you shoot in automatic you have to look to the backscreen for exposure info. That is completly unpractical. You can get used to guess central focus point and with lots of practise even the framing with only 85% coverage (altough not practic at all), but you can´t guess exposure settings. Other than the orbs and the quality control issues, I think the OVF is something Fuji can and should definitely improve in the next model, at least to include basic exposure info.

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The OVF, I like it! It does what I need - shows the photograph area just fine!





















. I didn't know the OVF was supposed to be an entertainment center.... I've take hundreds of photo with the X10 using the OVF. Absolutely no problems.

Another Oly user here who likes his X-10.

The viewfinder is fine and its shortcomings don't bother me much and I use it for the majority of my shots now I'm confodent in the camera's decision-making.

The mechanical zoom is an even better gift than a viewfinder.

And I don't really want a camera smaller than this.

Different strokes for different folks.

The strenghts for the XZ-1 are in low ISO. It is a Gold awarded camera in dpreview.com

Photo-Wiz said:

You make a lot of excellent points. But I used the XZ1 on a recent trip to Europe. I found that much too often, the camera exhibited noise, even at very low ISO. I also found that the XZ1 had a copper tone added to nearly every picture. So if I took a picture of the gold sculptures in Melk, even the walls had a copper tint to them.

The XZ1 is an excellent camera in many respects. But I found the above two characteristics objectionable. So I sold the XZ1, and now I'm trying out the X10 and hoping for better results.

photo perzon said:

Seems to me the Olympus XZ-1 is what the next generation X10 wants to be. 30% lighter, 30% smaller, truly jacket pocketable.

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PerL said:

Wellington100 said:

PerL said:

You dont need to be reminded of the shooting parameters every moment, but there are many times when you are handicapped without viewfinder (shooting in snow, strong sun, backlight, contrasty light, following action etc).

Click to expand...

True enough but don't you think those are the very same conditions where you need to know that the exposure or focus is still spot on as you are about to take the shot? To me, an EVF is the answer to the conditions you mention.

Click to expand...

Yes, but at least it is better to have a viewfinder than to have none.

If you have the optional EVF for the Olympus you need to decide when to take it and when not. Often you might miss it, or you might regret that you bothered to increase the bulk of the camera. There are also some issues with EVFs, but that is a longwinded discussion...

Click to expand...

The solution is the hybrid viewfinder, it combines the best of all worlds.

PerL said:

PerL said:

PerL said:

Wellington100 said:

I mean a Kodak Instamatic at the decisive moment as the shot is taken.

--
S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, Z5, V10, D40, EX1

Click to expand...

--
http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

Click to expand...

--
S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1

Click to expand...

--
http://dslr-video.com/blogmag/

Click to expand...

--
S100, S6500, S5, F300, F200, F70, F11, F31 (deceased), Z5, V10, D40, EX1

Bottom line - no EVF will ever make up for lack of OVF, when the blasted cameras, like the oly pens and xz1, have the utterly useless burst mode.

If you ever try to use burst mode, you will find you get a review of your photos, starting 2 shots back. It is completely impossible to use burst mode for any thing useful and moving, on oly cameras.

The x10 with adequate nice rapid burst mode, and OVF, can get the shot.

And the jpgs blow away the vaunted oly jpgs, in color, and detail.

Lastly, if a camera does not have a manual zoom, I am not interested. Your puny xz1 is not much larger, nor better, than a cell phone.

--
Don Erway
http://picasaweb.google.com/onederway
http://www.pbase.com/derway

Will Hickman said:

Portuense said:

I used it and I can´t understand it´s practical use other than a backup framing tool for when the sun is too bright. I am a viewfinder guy but unless you shoot in automatic you have to look to the backscreen for exposure info. That is completly unpractical. You can get used to guess central focus point and with lots of practise even the framing with only 85% coverage (altough not practic at all), but you can´t guess exposure settings. Other than the orbs and the quality control issues, I think the OVF is something Fuji can and should definitely improve in the next model, at least to include basic exposure info.

Click to expand...

The OVF, I like it! It does what I need - shows the photograph area just fine!





















. I didn't know the OVF was supposed to be an entertainment center.... I've take hundreds of photo with the X10 using the OVF. Absolutely no problems.

Click to expand...

The OVF as it is is indeed an entertainment center, you can play guess the outcome. Exposure info for me is not entertainment, but if some people are perfectly fine with a photo camera that ruins photos with orbs nothing really surprises me.

That's why some buy an XZ-1,

and that's why I bought a X10 after trying an XZ-1 !!!!

Don Erway said:

Lastly, if a camera does not have a manual zoom, I am not interested. Your puny xz1 is not much larger, nor better, than a cell phone.

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Care to elaborate? I am not fond of electronic zooms either but to say that the XZ1 is not much better than a cell phone is absolute nonsense. We could argue that X10 is even worse since it would not be better than a cell phone but much larger and heavier (sensor and lens wise the XZ1 and X10 are similar). That would of course be complete nonsense.

Don Erway said:

Lastly, if a camera does not have a manual zoom, I am not interested. Your puny xz1 is not much larger, nor better, than a cell phone.

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Sorry to ask this, but do you actually have eyes and a brain to coordinate what you see?

SHILL

Guess what photo perzon……you basically starter this exact same thread on Nov 18th, so what is the point of doing it again.

I noticed that you are all over these forums and from what I can tell, your sole purpose is to generate forum action. You ask questions, get answers and then ask the same questions in other threads.

Unless this is a new sickness of our population, I have also noted some other ‘people’ on DPR that seem to do exactly the same thing.

So, here is hoping that in 2012 you start contributing actual information and/or photos rather then simply stir the pot….and the same for those other forum ‘contributors’.

wj

--
nikonandricoh

wymjym said:

SHILL

Guess what photo perzon……you basically starter this exact same thread on Nov 18th, so what is the point of doing it again.

I noticed that you are all over these forums and from what I can tell, your sole purpose is to generate forum action. You ask questions, get answers and then ask the same questions in other threads.

Unless this is a new sickness of our population, I have also noted some other ‘people’ on DPR that seem to do exactly the same thing.

So, here is hoping that in 2012 you start contributing actual information and/or photos rather then simply stir the pot….and the same for those other forum ‘contributors’.

wj

--
nikonandrich

Click to expand...

That's the core problem. Instead of useful photographic related discussion involving techniques, observations,tips and explanations it is all 'mines bigger than yours' playground arguements with very little based on actuallity.

Dave. (UK)

Well, like I said the XZ1 is an excellent camera. Here is an ISO 125 photo. If you look at the bottom of the grill, do you think there is too much noise? or do you think most cameras would do the same?

photo perzon said:

The strenghts for the XZ-1 are in low ISO. It is a Gold awarded camera in dpreview.com

Photo-Wiz said:

You make a lot of excellent points. But I used the XZ1 on a recent trip to Europe. I found that much too often, the camera exhibited noise, even at very low ISO. I also found that the XZ1 had a copper tone added to nearly every picture. So if I took a picture of the gold sculptures in Melk, even the walls had a copper tint to them.

The XZ1 is an excellent camera in many respects. But I found the above two characteristics objectionable. So I sold the XZ1, and now I'm trying out the X10 and hoping for better results.

photo perzon said:

Seems to me the Olympus XZ-1 is what the next generation X10 wants to be. 30% lighter, 30% smaller, truly jacket pocketable.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

wymjym said:

SHILL

Guess what photo perzon……you basically starter this exact same thread on Nov 18th, so what is the point of doing it again.

I noticed that you are all over these forums and from what I can tell, your sole purpose is to generate forum action. You ask questions, get answers and then ask the same questions in other threads.

Unless this is a new sickness of our population, I have also noted some other ‘people’ on DPR that seem to do exactly the same thing.

So, here is hoping that in 2012 you start contributing actual information and/or photos rather then simply stir the pot….and the same for those other forum ‘contributors’.

wj

--
nikonandricoh

Click to expand...

I agree! Guess there's no one to play with over on the Oly site.....:-(

We do not yet know, but the sensor in the XZ-1 is not top-rate. Compare shadows in RAW at high ISO in DPR or look it up in DXOMARK.

The S90/S95/G11/G12/TL500 sensor is about a stop better, which means even though the XZ-1 lens is more than a stop faster than the G12 lens once the better G12 sensor is factored in the XZ-1 has a vanishing advantage in low light and the TL500 is the best low light P&S if you are willing to use RAW (the TL500 jpeg engine is not very good).

So if the X10 sensor is better than the 2nd rate sensor in the XZ-1 it will have the best overall IQ of any P&S.

Fuji has a history of occasionally making top rate sensors so I have my fingers crossed.

Oh come on.....we all need the occasional idiot on parade and it will never end that a select few will populate the dpreview chatboards with "mine is better than yours blah blah blah".....let 'em!

Gotta love an idiot on parade....with the unsuspecting tapping to his/her beat right behind the idiot as they rah rah rah about what they have or someone else does not have.....INSTEAD OF USING THEIR CAMERAS TO TAKE PICTURES! LOLOLOLOL!!!

Happy holidays all.

Richard

David Clarke29 said:

wymjym said:

SHILL

Guess what photo perzon……you basically starter this exact same thread on Nov 18th, so what is the point of doing it again.

I noticed that you are all over these forums and from what I can tell, your sole purpose is to generate forum action. You ask questions, get answers and then ask the same questions in other threads.

Unless this is a new sickness of our population, I have also noted some other ‘people’ on DPR that seem to do exactly the same thing.

So, here is hoping that in 2012 you start contributing actual information and/or photos rather then simply stir the pot….and the same for those other forum ‘contributors’.

wj

--
nikonandrich

Click to expand...

That's the core problem. Instead of useful photographic related discussion involving techniques, observations,tips and explanations it is all 'mines bigger than yours' playground arguements with very little based on actuallity.

Dave. (UK)

Click to expand...

I own both the XZ-1+VF2 and the X10. I'm seeing a lot of fan boyish comments from both sides and I'm willing to bet most of those people have never used both cameras. I bet some of them haven't even used EITHER camera.For the moment I'm keeping both as they are two very different cameras.

I'll make a few points about both cameras. Note that I have zero emotional investment in either camera or manufacturer. These opinions are based on how I feel about the cameras themselves. If you don't want to read any further, the take home message is this, "The X10 feels like a real full camera while the XZ-1 feels like a compact camera".

JPEG System: The X10 clearly wins here, no contest IMO. The XZ-1 is heavy handed with the noise reduction and the Olympus JPEG system adds a reddish tint to photos that I just don't like. Not a real big deal to me though as use raw 90% of the time. Occasionally I'll keep a JPEG from either camera but I'm more likely to keep a JPEG from the X10.

Sensor: The X10 has about a stop of better ISO performance in raw. The XZ-1 on the other hand is a true 10mp camera. The X10 really needs to be used at 6mp. Will have to wait for DXOMark to run their tests to come to any real conclusions about other parameters.

Image Stabilization: The XZ-1 wins here, it offers about a stop of better performance.

Lens: XZ-1 no contest. It's a 1/3 of stop better and sharper across the board wide open. Don't believe me? Look at the DPReview samples and look at the corners, its obvious. Stop it down to about F4 and even here the XZ-1 is a tad better when pixel peeping. The real difference is when you use the lens wide open though. One thing I absolutely hate about the X10 is the flare. It flares too easily and when it does flare it's downright ugly. The XZ-1 has much better flare control and when it does flare its not so ugly.

Handling: X10 no contest. The X10 feels like a real camera with the built in OVF, smooth manual zoom ring, ability to take filters, and all those manual buttons. The size and heft can be a good or bad thing depending on what you're looking for. The XZ-1 is much more pocketable but it also feels like a compact camera when you handle it. What's your priority?

Viewfinder: This one is a bit tough. An OVF is so much more pure than an EVF. The X10's OVF is bright and with practice you can adjust for both the 85% framelines and the lack of focus point. I find the OVF is great for street photography but for other stuff I'll take the EVF. The EVF also has a larger magnification and the ability to see the exposure information means you're thinking less about your settings and more on the composition. The VF-2 on the XZ-1 does not refresh at 60fps either, so its a bit laggy.

Firmware: Another thing that puts me off the X10 is the buggy firmware. Too many things to list. The XZ-1 does not have any glaring bugs that need to be fixed.

So prospective buyers should ask themselves a few questions.

1. Are you looking for a camera that will fit in a pocket? (XZ-1).

2. Are you looking to have one camera that looks and feels like a real camera? (X10).

I say that if you're looking for a compact to occasionally augment a system camera then I say the XZ-1 is a better choice because it serves as a real compact in size. The X10 is a tough fit, even in a large jacket pocket. Not only that, the difference in weight will be felt.

Since I find I prefer the X10 for street photography and I tend to keep the camera mostly at 35mm I may sell it if there is an X100 refresh. I'm also looking at a system mirrorless camera so having a real compact will be more desirable for me. I won't be deciding till next year though when Fuji releases their mirrorless and Olympus releases their new mirrorless (well just a rumor now). If I were going to choose to own just one camera though, I would keep the X10.

Image quality is a bit up in the air but based on some limited tests I've done, I would lean toward the XZ-1 with low iso's because of the lens. I haven't done a real test to see how much dynamic range improvement one would notice in high contrast situations with the X10 though.