inane challenge rules

I recently submitted a photo to the "Where I went this summer 2011 version" challenge. The rules included this superfluous gem:

You must state in the caption:
"Date and place taken"
I have read the rules and this complies with those rules"

I looked at other submissions, many actually included in the description of the picture "I have read the rules and this complies with those rules". Many others had not. It decided that since dpreview's submission form has a checkbox stating that you read and understood and are complying with the rules, that this was unnecessary. Moreover, it does not in any way belong in the "caption" (which the entry form calls a "Description") about the picture. And, suppose I wrote that, but the challenge host determined that the photo didn't meet the entry rules - he would disqualify it anyway, of course; so the attestation is meaningless. I couldn't believe that was really the rule.

Somewhat to my surprise, my entry was disqualified the (anonymous) challenge host wrote:

"Does not follow the rules of entry. Incomplete caption. Please re read the rules and re enter your image with complete caption. I do like the caption that you did put, though. If you are not sure about how to write the caption, please see the other entries for a template.

Regards,

Challenge Host"

I know what was wrong with the caption, it did not include the phrase "I have read the rules and this complies with those rules". I purposely did not follow that rule. I for one will not submit to such an arbitrary, not photo related, useless rule. I am surprised such a rule can be enforced. I will not change my mind and resubmit to follow it.

Dpreview has rules that a challenge host must follow also, I think requiring an exact quote like that in the caption is arbitrary enough that it must violate those rules. Just because someone hosts a challenge shouldn't mean they can make up rules that have nothing to do with the photo being submitted, IMHO.

Thank you for reading this.

That is exactly what it means, the Host controls the Challenge and sets the rules . . if you don't like the rules don't enter that particular Challenge.

JosephScha said:

Just because someone hosts a challenge shouldn't mean they can make up rules that have nothing to do with the photo being submitted, IMHO.

Thank you for reading this.

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RaptorUK said:

That is exactly what it means, the Host controls the Challenge and sets the rules . . if you don't like the rules don't enter that particular Challenge.

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Ditto that.

For a time I included a similar rule in my challenges, it proved just how many ticked the box when entering but clearly lied when doing so because they had NOT read the rules at all, the number of DQ's for non-compliance was relentless but necessary.

Given the number of entries in my animal colours set which I had to DQ because people simply didnt bother reading the rules, and in many cases didnt even read the title but threw in shots they thought were vaguely similar to the thumbnails of other entries they gave a cursory glance to, I am strongly considering including a text requirement again if only to make the point that whatever the rules are, whether people like them or not, they need to be read and adhered to if making the choice to submit an entry !

If you don't like the way the challenges are being run by dpr why are you always complaining here. No one is forcing you to participate.

RaptorUK said:

That is exactly what it means, the Host controls the Challenge and sets the rules . . if you don't like the rules don't enter that particular Challenge.

JosephScha said:

Just because someone hosts a challenge shouldn't mean they can make up rules that have nothing to do with the photo being submitted, IMHO.

Thank you for reading this.

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edited to add by dpr

From someone who has more posts complaining than actual challenge entries and votes.

Patchandcrew said:

RaptorUK said:

That is exactly what it means, the Host controls the Challenge and sets the rules . . if you don't like the rules don't enter that particular Challenge.

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Ditto that.

For a time I included a similar rule in my challenges, it proved just how many ticked the box when entering but clearly lied when doing so because they had NOT read the rules at all, the number of DQ's for non-compliance was relentless but necessary.

Given the number of entries in my animal colours set which I had to DQ because people simply didnt bother reading the rules, and in many cases didnt even read the title but threw in shots they thought were vaguely similar to the thumbnails of other entries they gave a cursory glance to, I am strongly considering including a text requirement again if only to make the point that whatever the rules are, whether people like them or not, they need to be read and adhered to if making the choice to submit an entry !

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JosephScha said:

Somewhat to my surprise, my entry was disqualified the (anonymous) challenge host wrote:

"Does not follow the rules of entry. Incomplete caption. Please re read the rules and re enter your image with complete caption. I do like the caption that you did put, though. If you are not sure about how to write the caption, please see the other entries for a template.

Regards,

Challenge Host"

I know what was wrong with the caption, it did not include the phrase "I have read the rules and this complies with those rules". I purposely did not follow that rule. I for one will not submit to such an arbitrary, not photo related, useless rule. I am surprised such a rule can be enforced. I will not change my mind and resubmit to follow it.

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You claim the host's additional rule was superfluous because DPReview requires a check box to verify you read and understand the rules. Yet, you did not comply with those rules (that you verified you read and understood) and are now surprised that your entry was dq'd for not following said rules. I find that a bit ironic, actually.

I'm also wondering why you think the challenge host is anonymous. Every challenge that I've entered indicates who the challenge host is right at the top. There's no mystery there.

It amazes me how many entries in just about any challenge do not satisfy the challenge rules (whether considered superfluous or not). How about this entry in the recent challenge for Penguins?
http://www.dpreview.com/.../Entry.aspx?ID=509043&View=Results&Rows=25

I'm not sure what amazes me more, the fact that the entry had nothing to do with the challenge, the fact that the entry still managed to rank #20 out of 30 entries, or that some voters chose to award the entry with 5's and 4's. And yet you claim that DPReview's check box is enough to validate that all entrants have read and followed the rules for the challenge.

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Bruce

I kinda agree with the OP.

It's pointless..........if you read the rules and play by the rules, you entered a conforming picture, if you didn't the host would have disqualified it anyway. If you don't play by the rules the additional "I have read the rules" is superfluous.

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Arrrrrrh !

Bart.

FNG303 said:

From someone who has more posts complaining than actual challenge entries and votes.

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Your point being please ?

Unlike the OP I don't complain that rules are inane or useless. In any competition, yes even if it's just for fun, fairness is key. When I see something that puts one or more entrants at a disadvantage to other entrants then this is unfair and I will mention it.

Some examples: DPR rules that aren't being enforced, Host's rules that aren't being enforced, Host's rules that are being changed by way of the Comments, Challenge descriptions that are ambiguous.

Is it so wrong to wish for the Challenges and this Site to be run just a little better ?

FNG303 said:

If you don't like the way the challenges are being run by dpr why are you always complaining here. No one is forcing you to participate.

edited to add by dpr

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You are a guest here and you do not tell the host how to run the house. I can walk in my house with dirty shoes but I expect visitors to remove theirs. Why are you so hung up with Dpr and challenge rules that people have come up with in 5 minutes (except for BikinChris and Patch&Crew who spend more time writing their rules than monitoring their challenges) ? Why do you want to ram down our throats your interpretation of these rules? Things are not running perfectly.So what !

I'm not ramming anything down anyone's throat, that implies I am in some sort of position where I can make someone do something . . . obviously I can't. I guess you don't think I should be allowed to voice my opinion ?

What is so bad about wanting things to be better when obvious improvements can be made for very little effort by DPR and some Challenge Hosts ?

Hosts are also guests here and are governed by DPR's rules.

Obviously I have upset you personally in some way, I can't think how, but I apologise all the same.

FNG303 said:

You are a guest here and you do not tell the host how to run the house. I can walk in my house with dirty shoes but I expect visitors to remove theirs. Why are you so hung up with Dpr and challenge rules that people have come up with in 5 minutes (except for BikinChris and Patch&Crew who spend more time writing their rules than monitoring their challenges) ? Why do you want to ram down our throats your interpretation of these rules? Things are not running perfectly.So what !

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Take a look at my album . . . http://www.F1Album.com

Patchandcrew said:

RaptorUK said:

That is exactly what it means, the Host controls the Challenge and sets the rules . . if you don't like the rules don't enter that particular Challenge.

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Ditto that.

For a time I included a similar rule in my challenges, it proved just how many ticked the box when entering but clearly lied when doing so because they had NOT read the rules at all, the number of DQ's for non-compliance was relentless but necessary.

Given the number of entries in my animal colours set which I had to DQ because people simply didnt bother reading the rules, and in many cases didnt even read the title but threw in shots they thought were vaguely similar to the thumbnails of other entries they gave a cursory glance to, I am strongly considering including a text requirement again if only to make the point that whatever the rules are, whether people like them or not, they need to be read and adhered to if making the choice to submit an entry !

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Absolutely, anybody who doesn't like the rules doesn't need to enter the challenge, I believe that this is quite simple. What is it going to take for participants to understand this.

Having a quick look through the current challenges open for submission I read in the title or the challenge description the following:

• Read the Rules
• Please Read the Rules
• See Additional Rules
• Please read the rules carefully
• Read the rules please

Why is it that challenge hosts have to add those comments in the title or description, which is plain and clear for everyone to see, when there is a tick a box on your entry to say that you have read the rules and that your entry complies? Simple. Pleople don't read the rules. I have yet to run a challenge (and I have hosted close to 100 of them) where I have not had to disqualify any of the entries because they have not adhered to the rules.

As a challenge host it is frustrating when you have to disqualify entry after entry for things that could have been avoided simply by people reading the rules.

While I have never gone to the length of the challenge host you are complaining about, I can certainly appreciate the frustration behind what prompted him to do it.

If you have ever been disqualilfed for not complying with the rules don't complain about it, either comply with the rules or don't enter. Your choice.

As for those that want to continue to complain about what hosts do and don't do about their rules, please step up and become a challenge host for yourself and see what fun it is to have people constantly complaining about your challenges and the things that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't do.

Well said. And indeed, due to my unwillingness to follow that rule I did not (re)enter.

I appreciate very well the point that all challenge hosts are volunteers who put in their time, and apparently having submissions that don't actually follow the rules is a significant issue - I didn't know that.

What can I say. Maybe it's my personality quirk. I still find that rule superfluous. And, I wonder with some trepidation what else someone may ask us to type into the description field in some future challenge. But at least now, having read the responses, I have some understand why the challenge host did that.

FNG303 said:

(except for BikinChris and Patch&Crew who spend more time writing their rules than monitoring their challenges) ?

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You really do want to take the proverbial dont you ? You have bog all idea how much time anyone spends monitoring their challenges, in my case due to laptop issues which I made people aware of recently when I did finally manage to get online with pages taking several minutes each to load I was up all flippin' night going through a challenge to ensure it was a clean entry for voting, and for all challenges messaging people as often as I can to thank them for being vigilant about hitting the complain button or to explain in a message why I felt any entry with a complaint was not getting a DQ, and never mind having anything else going on in real life of horrendous proportions so concentrating on something here gives a little mental respite, well why the hell do I bother at all when I see a smart ar*e comment like that, thanks a flippin' bunch, way to go to now very likely lose a host who actually gives a damn about trying to create thoughtful and fair challenges.

Oh and regarding people not reading rules, if you can be bothered to do anything other than be downright spiteful, have a look at my current challenge at entries there which yes will be DQd but are still there at this moment as they prove the point so well in terms of people not bothering to read even the title let alone anything else, but hey how would I know if I dont bother monitoring of course :-

'Animal Colours [ or textures ] : Human and Animal Similarities ! [ READ THE RULES PLEASE ! ]

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Challenge.aspx?ID=5405

Why the hell DO I flippin' bother !

It is nothing personal between us. Just saying that nothing will come out of butting heads with dpr and that you are wasting your energies. My view on why you lost that host appointment is that a certain host came back and is running 2 aimless series. There are now 5 pages of challenges instead of 3-4.

JosephScha said:

Well said. And indeed, due to my unwillingness to follow that rule I did not (re)enter.

I appreciate very well the point that all challenge hosts are volunteers who put in their time, and apparently having submissions that don't actually follow the rules is a significant issue - I didn't know that.

What can I say. Maybe it's my personality quirk. I still find that rule superfluous. And, I wonder with some trepidation what else someone may ask us to type into the description field in some future challenge. But at least now, having read the responses, I have some understand why the challenge host did that.

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Thankyou

I would like to be a Host . . . I applied and was accepted quite quickly. Then a week later it seems I was no longer a Host . . .

AussieJo said:

As for those that want to continue to complain about what hosts do and don't do about their rules, please step up and become a challenge host for yourself and see what fun it is to have people constantly complaining about your challenges and the things that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't do.

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should have added :

and another is running a series based on Cat with white paws, then cat with black paws, then cat with white tail, then cat with black tail, then cat with white tail and black paws, then cat with black tail and white paws, then cat with black tail and black paws, then cat with white tail and white paws, then dog with white paws, then dog with black tail, then ...
I prefer some Optional Clothing to this.

I do not see all the hang-ups about rejecting entries. It only takes 2 clicks of the mouse. I liken it to playing at the fair with the hammer. Is it the sadist in me ?

RaptorUK said:

I would like to be a Host . . . I applied and was accepted quite quickly. Then a week later it seems I was no longer a Host . . .

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It is what it is but maybe it will come back. Good luck.

RaptorUK said:

AussieJo said:

As for those that want to continue to complain about what hosts do and don't do about their rules, please step up and become a challenge host for yourself and see what fun it is to have people constantly complaining about your challenges and the things that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't do.

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I think that some people just want to complaint about one thing or the other and personally I would like to thank the All the Hosts, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly for doing what they do, Eh! there wouldn't be any Challenges and I say this loudly if it wasn't for the Hosts. So be happy, play fair and enjoy.
jean-marie

RaptorUK said:

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