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The A77: My good, my bad, and my unknown

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garykohs said:
Chad,

I'm a sports shooter also and I'm with you on the buffer problem. You described it well. We'll need judicious use of burst plus a very fast SD card.

I do disagree on burst rates. I'd like maximum flexibility in setting those rates but my 1D4 is set to 10 fps fast and 5 fps slow. Anything less than that I find about useless.

But I want to talk focus tracking. That's something that has amazed me on my a55. It's better than my Canon 1D4 or my (recently sold) 7D - and both of those are very good. So I'm curious. I don't know what you're currently shooting with but have you tried an a55?
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The A55 is the wrong tool for me. Viewfinder was not adequate for me. Too small when balancing a longer lens. Too small when working with for 3-4 hours at a time (my hands cramp up just thinking about it) . Small battery capacity. SD card. Not sure how well it will survive when I swing around to get the shot behind me and the camera strikes something hard.

And the preponderance of the reports that I have heard and read is that the A55 suffers from the same basic tracking issue that the A700 sufferec from - slightly behind the subject. You are the only one I have heard even suggest what you are saying here.

Then, there is still the lens selection issue.

My D300s is very good and VERY accurate. My D2Hs's are simply hot-rods. Not quite as micro-accurate as the D300s, but they keep up with everything.

BTW, 18 raw frame buffer on the D300s, 40 on the D2Hs.

chad
 
Sure, you might be right for what concerns the programming of different fps speeds.

But tell me why in the world Canon was able to bring out a 7D with a much better buffer size two years ago?

The 18MP 7D files are equally heavy to the Sony A77 24MP files (same scene at iso100 from IR, both around 25Mb - probably because the 7D uses 14-bit vs A77 12-bit). So, at 8fps, the 7D manages to put 22 frames before the buffer is full, while the A77 manages a mere 12 frames... do you really think that Sony can not do better? In that case they are more than 2 years behind Canon, which is quite a shame for one of the world's leading electronics company!

But then again... as long as they can advertise the (almost useless) 12fps, togehther with the (almost useless) 24MP, who cares about the photographers that actually have to use the thing?

qp
 
Henry Richardson said:
quatpat said:
For the idiotically small buffer size, I have no other explanation than cost: Sony probably had to save costs somewhere, so they cut down on buffer memory.
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Be watchful of other cost-cutting by the use of cheap parts, etc. in the A77 as time goes by. The A700 had defective control wheel parts (not everyone has had problems, of course) and it was maybe to save money on cheaper parts. Also, A100, A550, A900, A55, etc. have had the same problem to a lesser degree. In my case, I have owned many cameras (digital and film), but the only ones that have had defects were my A700, A100, and 2 KM 7D bodies. All my Canon digital (3 DSLRs) and Minolta digital and film gear (many AF and MF bodies) has been flawless over a period of 40 years. Only the Sony and KM gear has had QC/bad parts/bad design defects.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
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In that particular department - quality control - I actually don't think that Sony lags much behind Canon. At least, when you go to the Canon forum, that's not what my impression is. I also have a friend who's 40D already broke down twice, while my a350 only had a stuck shutter curtain recently, after about 60'000 shots.

If I'd move to another brand it wouldn't be for built-quality reasons in any case. It would rather be because of Sony's marketing-above-all approach, while still lagging behind the competition in most departments.

qp
 
quatpat said:
In that particular department - quality control - I actually don't think that Sony lags much behind Canon. At least, when you go to the Canon forum, that's not what my impression is. I also have a friend who's 40D already broke down twice, while my a350 only had a stuck shutter curtain recently, after about 60'000 shots.
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I am only telling of my experience. By the way, the A700 control wheel problem is an infamous and widespread problem that has hit many, many people. Mine hit after only about 3500 photos. So far, all my Sony and KM bodies have been defective. I am glad others have been luckier.
quatpat said:
If I'd move to another brand it wouldn't be for built-quality reasons in any case. It would rather be because of Sony's marketing-above-all approach, while still lagging behind the competition in most departments.
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I am not suggesting you switch. I haven't switched either. I continue to shoot Canon and Sony. I have bodies and lenses for both. My belief is Sony concentrates on gee-whiz features more than quality though.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
 
chadmarek said:
And the preponderance of the reports that I have heard and read is that the A55 suffers from the same basic tracking issue that the A700 sufferec from - slightly behind the subject. You are the only one I have heard even suggest what you are saying here.
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I haven't used my wife's A55 enough to have a valid opinion but "seat of the pants" suggests that it tracks better then my A700 - specifically when the subject is moving toward the camera.

Here is something from a review that might be interesting ( http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/news/529956/sony-alpha-a77-first-impressions.html ):

" It's no good providing a high speed burst mode though if the camera can't maintain focus on fast moving subjects. The A77 is equipped with 19 AF points, 11 of which are cross type, and they work at apertures of f/5.6 or wider, so you don't need expensive f/2.8 lenses to get the full functionality. In practice the A77 sample I was using had no trouble holding focus on a fast moving jet ski, whether moving across the frame or towards the camera. "
chadmarek said:
Then, there is still the lens selection issue.
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The still have quite a way to go to support sports.
chadmarek said:
My D300s is very good and VERY accurate. My D2Hs's are simply hot-rods. Not quite as micro-accurate as the D300s, but they keep up with everything.
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Remains to be seen. Hopefully the A77 is right up there with Canon/Nikon.
chadmarek said:
BTW, 18 raw frame buffer on the D300s, 40 on the D2Hs.
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I agree that the buffer is not big enough for some sports shooting (and RAM is cheap :().

--
Rick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbphotos/
 
Mark VB said:
[U] Fotogrfr said:
Wow, I agree. What good is a super-fast 12fps and fast AF if the camera can't handle the incoming images fast enough to keep up.

Sony crams all those MP onto the sensor, which cranks up the file size, and puts it in a camera with a fast, accurate AF and a continuous shooting speed that can zip off 12 photos in one second, but doesn't think to make the buffer an adequate size to handle those features. Unbelievable.
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Actually, it's not unbelievable, and that's one of Sony's biggest problems. There is a lack of thought in how people use the product.

It's also shown in limiting the customizable buttons to the AEL, ISO and AF/MF buttons, but not including the smart telecon. and "?" buttons. The latter two are unlikely to be used by many more knowledgeable photographers, particularly those shooting RAW (as the telecon. button doesn't work in RAW and becomes a largely useless button). On the other hand, the three buttons that are customizable all have pretty important functions on their own, functions that a photographer probably does not want to give up by customizing it for a different function. Add in the fact that Sony has moved a couple of more functions to menu items from their previous dedicated switches (SSS and metering mode), and the situation is even worse. Also, the elimination of the QuickNav feature.

Sony likes to talk about various new features, but how they are implemented may be of little or very limited benefit to photographers. It seems it's more about being able to promote (market) a feature than making it useful for the end user.
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I completely agree. Sony seems to throw in a few "head scratchers" with every camera. The buffer limitation is a great example. It is like designing a sports car - great engine, suspension, brakes, etc - and slapping some cheap tires on it so you can't go fast. Sometimes their designs don't make sense.

--
Rick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fjbphotos/ [/U]
 
Agree. there are many shortcomings at this camera, but the good things list is way longer.

I was so turned off by the battery life. It seems that most of the previewers squeezed more than double amount of photos of one charge compared to official specs.

There might be more shortcomings, but lets see the full half of the glass.

Than, if sony would give us everything in one camera, how would the upgrade look like ?

I will enjoy all features of a77, and if there is another one coming next year with two Bionz, unlimited buffer, two card slots, than I will probably upgrade to that one.
 
Thanks for explaining all of that :) I'm one of the people 'wishing' that there were more options to the FPS (I shoot horses and have found that the a33's 6fps is surprisingly perfect and times well with the horses movement. I'm concerned the 8fps won't 'sync' very well, along with taking up more space on my memory card. Maybe the slower speed will do better...)

I really hope Sony does have a 'med' speed in the works that they're still testing. It's sounds like the final version of the firmware still hasn't been released, which is interesting and keeps me hoping!!
 
IMHO since you didn't mention video Canon 7D would be better cjoice for you. EVF will be dark-black during bursts. It is also not-so-good when you pan following rapid movement of your subj. Moreover, Sony in-body SSS does not have "mode-2", i.e. panning mode. Most of Canon IS-tele-glass has it instead and works perfectly well. 7D AF sensor is superior to my experience in terms of frame coverage, tracking abilities and it has a dedicated CPU unit that does only AF.

AF @ hi-ISO is also in question for me. First RAW samples I found from Russian reviewer show terrible noise in sky in bright daylight already by ISO1600. This is definitely not the case with 550d/7d

Personally, my choice for action shots is Canon (macro&birding included). If i go for "slow-shoot" of static subjects, just for myself in a "fine-art mode" then I prefer SOny A900 with ZA135, ZA85 or 35G.
 
Vladimir Yanushkevich said:
IMHO since you didn't mention video Canon 7D would be better cjoice for you. EVF will be dark-black during bursts. It is also not-so-good when you pan following rapid movement of your subj.
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That depends on the implemntation of the tech. There aren't many clear descriptions of that implementation, yet.
Vladimir Yanushkevich said:
Moreover, Sony in-body SSS does not have "mode-2", i.e. panning mode. Most of Canon IS-tele-glass has it instead and works perfectly well. 7D AF sensor is superior to my experience in terms of frame coverage, tracking abilities and it has a dedicated CPU unit that does only AF.

AF @ hi-ISO is also in question for me. First RAW samples I found from Russian reviewer show terrible noise in sky in bright daylight already by ISO1600. This is definitely not the case with 550d/7d
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Noise has nothing to do with focus. The camera used PDAF, not CDAF.
Vladimir Yanushkevich said:
Personally, my choice for action shots is Canon (macro&birding included). If i go for "slow-shoot" of static subjects, just for myself in a "fine-art mode" then I prefer SOny A900 with ZA135, ZA85 or 35G.
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Thanks for the imput.

chad
 
Wonder if the buffer speed isn't meant for sports shooters, seeing that it isn't a sports camera. Maybe Sony has a sports camera with a buffer speed made for that type of shooting. Idk. What I do know and remember is Minolta having this same issue with the 7D. After some complaints. Minolta addressed the problem in a firmware fix.
NewsyL said:
Of all points it is the buffer that has me rethinking how useful this camera will be.

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Newsy http://newsy.smugmug.com

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