Ricoh(Pentax) FF - issues and strategical opportunities

Started Jul 7, 2011 | Discussions thread
CriticalI Senior Member • Posts: 1,777
Hmm: are you?

Firstly I was agreeing with you, so I don't know why you are attacking my post.

You have no idea what I do or what my expertise is, because unlike you I don't feel the need to advertise on a hobby forum, so there is no need to sneer. In return, I promise not to sneer at you.

Secondly, I have been engaged in this debate for many years and most people seemed to think all along that Pentax should make a cheap FF camera. I was addressing them, not you.

Re the Kx. Yes it was cheaper than the Canon. Perhaps they were going for market share not profitability (they partially succeeded). However, shortly after that they hiked their prices considerably, so what's your point? They clearly made far less money on the Kx than Canon did on their comparable Rebels.

The K5 is no more expensive (in the UK) than the Nikon D7000, but I suspect Nikon makes a lot more per camera because of the reasons I explained.

As for separating profit and costs centres, how you do internal accounting is up to you, but at the end of the day, net profitability overall is what matters and that depends on the costs I mentioned across all models. You can slice and dice how you like, it makes no odds, its just a way of confering financial accountability by management function.

If you want to build a new camera at a net cost overall, it would be hard to justify unless one was confident that it would generate sufficient sales of other models in one way or another to justify it either in the short or long term. I suspect Pentax are a little small to carry the cost of a loss leader.

As for Canon and the 1Ds vs the 5D, yes the total profit for the line as a whole may be less (you have figures?) but the high price of the pro cameras and predictable sales volumes offset much of the R&D risk. There are benefits down the line as the technology trickles down to lower end models as well.

But, without the 1Ds (and the D3s etc) the R&D would not even be considered, just like without the Mercedes S class, anti-lock brakes and many other innovations would probably never had seen the light of day on cheaper cars.

Without the 1Ds, I doubt you would have seen a 5D.

Incidentally, the 5D sold slowly at first and was discounted wildly. It took a while for the market to pick up. The 5D2 was a lot more successful financially.

In terms of development capacity, Pentax for a long time were managing to produce 1 upgrade and 1 replacement APSC model about every 18 months. It's not hard to assess from that what their capacity is. Unless Ricoh recruit more engineers its hard to see how they can make an FF camera and maintain the turnover on APSC, or for that matter develop a CSC camera.

The 645D? Even if it uses no components from the 645, there was very little R&D required for Pentax to make the shutter or mirror box for it. The mechanical components are just scaled down versions of the 645D ones to fit the cropped sensor. The parts that would have cost money, like the control systems, AF and firmware were lifted in part from the K7 which should have saved quite a bit. Moreover, even if it is cheaper than any other MF camera, it's still more expensive than a D3X which I would suspect costs a great deal more to develop and possibly to manufacture, even with the smaller sensor.

Pentax FF lenses available in huge numbers? New? Where?

I can now order most of the full range of 645 lenses from Pentax.

And that's as far as I intend to go in this debate.
--
Regards,
Steve

Post (hide subjects) Posted by
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum PPrevious NNext WNext unread UUpvote SSubscribe RReply QQuote BBookmark MMy threads
Color scheme? Blue / Yellow