Help me with D7000 skin tones

Swedish Hambern · May 31, 2011

You're right. I've also noticed that fill flash looks bad on the D7000. With the D70 I often used fill flash in daylight and the results always came out good. Skin tones were actually better because then you could overcome that highlight clipping tendency of the D70.

But the fill flash photos I've tried with D7000 have all been so bad I had to delete them. Really strange this. Nikon needs to address it, or atleast give us D7000 a possibility to get the sensor changed or the money back.

drifit said:
Swedish Hambern said:

But I wouldn't take it from me, needing a psychiatrist, head examination and an eye check though. And by the way. You should probably come with me. Everyone that points out that the beloved D7000 has a color problem seems to be labeled mentally ill and almost blind in theese forums.

Click to expand...

i have mentally ill but not color blind.

check-out my flick, the recent photos(O'Green event). those are shot underneath skylite, daytime. aperture priority + flash for fill in. i can say almost every shot, the skin tone is out. i need to WB it back to actual. i didnt even set WB + warm but they came out warm orange.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/drifit/

Swedish Hambern · May 31, 2011

This is the kind of skin tones i miss...

AlvinLeyva · May 31, 2011

Have you tried using custom tone curves for the D7000? Some of the custom curves are from the older Nikon digital slr cameras and various brands of films like kodak and fujifilm. I can email then to you if you want.

KLO82 · May 31, 2011

+1

And in the 1st photo, subjects look anemic to me - too pale.

rondhamalam said:
rondhamalam said:

Click to expand...

And too much blue tint on this picture

rondhamalam said:

Click to expand...

Swedish Hambern · May 31, 2011

I have tried lots and lots of them. But I can certainly try some more. My email address is: mattias(at)kretiochpleti.se

intruder61 · May 31, 2011

Swedish Hambern said:
You're right. I've also noticed that fill flash looks bad on the D7000. With the D70 I often used fill flash in daylight and the results always came out good. Skin tones were actually better because then you could overcome that highlight clipping tendency of the D70.

But the fill flash photos I've tried with D7000 have all been so bad I had to delete them. Really strange this. Nikon needs to address it, or atleast give us D7000 a possibility to get the sensor changed or the money back.

post a photo that you have taken with flash....lets see how bad it is.

AlvinLeyva · May 31, 2011

Email sent! Good luck and keep us updated.

wlad · May 31, 2011

Swedish Hambern said:
And it is a bit of a learning curve, but this has nothing to do with that. The camera simply can't render good skin tones. The skins are blotched with yellow, green and magenta on a orange base most of the time. And that can't be just user error. I'm providing you with the RAW files, look and try for yourselves.

aaaah yeah, it's always someone else's fault, it must be . Even though everybody tells you those colors are fine. The WB is a bit on the cooler side, and you could increase the contrast to get a punchier image. I do not see any problem, and it seems none of the pros noticed this "problem" with the D7000 either.
All that Thom said was that Neutral is the new Standard.

eNo · May 31, 2011

Swedish Hambern said:
To achive good skin tones you need: exactly the right lighting, exactly the right exposure and exactly the right white balance. Otherwise skin tones are horrible.

This is true for any camera! By far the most important thing is lighting . Hit your subject with a green light source, and skin tones will be horrible, even with a D3s or D2x. Where's the news in that!?

Look at this shot:

Would the skin tones have been more flattering had I taken this shot with my D700 instead of the D7000? I don't care what level of manipulation you do in PP -- even if you were to paint a different color over that blue light cast, you won't get something that is "flattering."

As for the shots you posted:

the first one looks fine: what's wrong with those skin tones? In that kind of lighting, they are reasonable and anything but horrible.
you have a built-in gray reference in his cap/hat. Did you use it as a gray reference to see what you get?
it sounds like you are using ACR: did you use the Portrait camera profile/calibration?

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image

Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
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eNo · May 31, 2011

More samples for you to locate the magenta cast at:

http://imagesbyeduardo.com/main/2011/05/08/d7000-more-skin-tones-plus-shadow-noise/
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image

Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

eNo · May 31, 2011

That's a bit harsh. I agree with your comment about needing to compare. As I noted elsewhere in this thread, the main issue with color has to do with lighting, and just about any camera will "struggle" if you ask it to handle odd lighting and color casts from external sources. Does each camera's imaging chain add its own "salt" to color? Sure. Is it significant enough when comparing side by side to declare the results "horrible"? Based on my own fretting and testing, I don't think so.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image

Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

eNo · May 31, 2011

AlbieSky said:
Later, the best skin tones came when I used preset WB before the people shots. However, this is very impractical. When my kids are doing something cute, I want to get the moment.

So get the moment, in RAW/NEF, then, when the moment has passed, find something that is true white or gray in the shots you took. If you find none, stick a white or gray card under the same lighting, take a shot, and use the gray/white reference in PP for your white balance setting. It's a little more work, but well worth it and not as cumbersome as having to derive a pre-set every time the lighting changes.

AlbieSky said:
This weekend I attended my sister's medical school graduation. Right after I had shot my family with my D5100, a nearby group wanted their picture taken. I took their picture with their D5000, and it appeared that the skin tones looked better on their D5000 than my D5100 (at least on their LCD).

Argh!!! People, people!... Don't judge color accuracy on an LCD. Aside from being too small, being affected by ambient light, etc., it's just about the worst color-calibrated device out there. Use it for composition review and to check your exposure with the histogram, but not for color evaluation. I bet if you took the D5000 and D5100 shots with the same picture control and Auto-WB, and evaluated the results on a computer monitor (whether calibrated or not), you wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference between the two cameras.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image

Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

eNo · May 31, 2011

A side-by-side shot taken under the same conditions and of the same subject with another camera that does better
A properly white-balanced shot using a reliable white/gray reference spot/patch

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image

Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

eNo · May 31, 2011

When comparing output from 3 cameras and controlling for lighting, WB and picture control, I got these with (in no particular order) the D700, D300 and D7K. Without peeking, let me know which of these is the "horrible" D7000 sample:

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image

Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

digitalman4242 · May 31, 2011

I just took alot about 1000 photos with a D3100 and a D5000 and I can tell you that on some of the shots the D3100 skin tones looked better and on the D5000 some of the skin tones looked better. Iv'e actually heard D5100 owners tell me they think the D3100 has better skin tones. But look at my gallery. 95% of it just has to do with the lighting and your surroundings. As far as which is better or which colors they cast on the skin tones.

AlbieSky said:
When I had my D70 and D80, I really liked the skin tones. The D70 exposed a bit too little; the D80 exposed a bit too much (very focus sensor dependent), but I liked the skin tones. This was with using no special curves, no preset WB, etc... Most of the time the everyday ordinary shooting skin tones were satisfactory.

I had the D3100 for about 8 months, and most of the time to my eyes the skin tones were a bit off, a bit too orange or red. Neutral setting was the best looking, but then everything looked so dull. Even with playing around with the settings, I could not get it too look right. Later, the best skin tones came when I used preset WB before the people shots. However, this is very impractical. When my kids are doing something cute, I want to get the moment.

I now have the D5100. It does the similar thing on the skin tones as the D3100 did, but not as bad. The best skin tones are with preset white balance. I may be forced to carry around my WhitBal pocket card, or purchase an Expodisc. The D5100 is a fantastic camera. Focus and exposure are wonderful. The exposure performance is between the D70 and D80. It blows hightlights just enough, but not as much as the D80 or D3100 in the P mode.

This weekend I attended my sister's medical school graduation. Right after I had shot my family with my D5100, a nearby group wanted their picture taken. I took their picture with their D5000, and it appeared that the skin tones looked better on their D5000 than my D5100 (at least on their LCD). I am still experimenting with the skin tones, but atm a good preWB seems to work best on getting the skin tones that I was used to from my older dSLR's.

So.. to the OP... I believe you.

digitalman4242 · May 31, 2011

rondhamalam said:
Swedish Hambern said:

These are from my D70 under identical circumstances, the same room, same sofa, same light though the window. Not perfect WB and a lot more noise, but the skin tones are A LOT better. Aren't they?

Click to expand...

Too much green tint on this picture

rondhamalam said:

Click to expand...

I was thiking the same thing. He was upset about D7000 skin tones and posts this pic and says how much better the skin tones are. And I am just not seeing it.

digitalman4242 · May 31, 2011

eNo said:
When comparing output from 3 cameras and controlling for lighting, WB and picture control, I got these with (in no particular order) the D700, D300 and D7K. Without peeking, let me know which of these is the "horrible" D7000 sample:

The middle ones looks the worst to me. Tie for my between other two.

intruder61 · May 31, 2011

right under the dolls left eye...1 cm down... in the same spot on all 3 images.... these are the readings.....
1st magenta @38% yellow 50%
2nd magenta @34% yellow 48%

3rd magenta @39% yellow 48%.......so between the 3 there isnt too much difference

BUT in the cyan (blue) you have 17% 11% and 14% respectively, where ideally you want the cyan readings to be about 1/4 value of magenta.
so personally the first one throws off too much "blue".....for what its worth.

REMEMBER: this is a doll

eNo said:
When comparing output from 3 cameras and controlling for lighting, WB and picture control, I got these with (in nont particular order) the D700, D300 and D7K. Without peeking, let me know which of these is the "horrible" D7000 sample:

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image

Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

Paul Pasco · May 31, 2011

Swedish Hambern said:
This is the kind of skin tones i miss...

The skin tones in this look nothing like the skin tones in the picture of the woman and child which you also say is the look you like....
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Regards, Paul

Lili's Dad

Swedish Hambern · May 31, 2011

There's now texture in that face. Therefore it's a very bad test subject. Try a portrait of a real person instead under different lighting conditions and I will point out the bad apples any day. Though, goin on just gut feeling I prefer one of the first two, mostly number one, but with such a test subject it's really just a guessing game.

eNo said:
When comparing output from 3 cameras and controlling for lighting, WB and picture control, I got these with (in no particular order) the D700, D300 and D7K. Without peeking, let me know which of these is the "horrible" D7000 sample:

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seeking the heart and spirit in each image

Gallery and blog: http://imagesbyeduardo.com
Flickr stream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22061657@N03

Help me with D7000 skin tones

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