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Sony Advanced P&S with RAW & larger sensor

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HopeSpringsEternal

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Sony makes most of the CMOS sensors used in many of the P&S cameras out there. They also make larger sensors for the advanced P&S but it doesn't seem like Sony uses those larger compact sensors itself nor does it make any "advanced" compact cameras.

I've looked around and I cannot find a single Sony P&S (compact camera) that has any of the following advanced features:
  • Larger sensor like Panasonic LX-5, Canon G12, Samsung TL-500 (EX-1) etc...
  • RAW recording ability
  • Flash Hotshoe
Does anyone know why? I'm particular puzzled by the absence of even a single Sony compact cam with RAW support which would be a boon for lower light pictures when processed using modern PC/Mac based RAW processors like Lightroom 3 or Aperture.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hopeiseternal/
 
I could take a good guess. But to answer your question, nope I doubt anybody knows but the Cybershot and Alpha division.

Carl
--

"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude; nothing can help the man with wrong one."
-Thomas Jefferson

http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/
 
I think they just decided that the R1 type cameras were a losing proposition and without IL they were limited anyway. why support a feature that the segment doesn't understand or rarely uses.

on the other hand haven't you nseen NEX? It has more aftermarket support than Alpha. can almost be considered a P&S and has APS-C sensor.. what more could you want?

I think the P&S segment is doing really well with the multishot noise reduction sceme aren't they?
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http://www.fotosource.com/downloads/flyer/eye_cancer_en_CA.pdf
 
Probably because they feel it'd threaten the viability of the Sony NEX lineup. Which is weird, since the three manufacturers with the best high-end compacts (Samsung, Olympus and Panasonic) are also the ones marketing their ILC systems most aggresively, but then again the NEX-5 is very... compact-like, while other ILCs resemble old rangefinders more closely than they do a modern digicam so perhaps they do have less to lose by attacking that market as well.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/Draek
 
Draek said:
Probably because they feel it'd threaten the viability of the Sony NEX lineup. Which is weird, since the three manufacturers with the best high-end compacts (Samsung, Olympus and Panasonic) are also the ones marketing their ILC systems most aggresively, but then again the NEX-5 is very... compact-like, while other ILCs resemble old rangefinders more closely than they do a modern digicam so perhaps they do have less to lose by attacking that market as well.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/Draek
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with you. If a consumer buys a NEX, they also buy lenses, whereas, if they buy a high-end compact, they don't buy more lenses. Sony has more profit potential with the NEX, with added sales.
 
cgarrard said:
I could take a good guess. But to answer your question, nope I doubt anybody knows but the Cybershot and Alpha division.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I would love to know the reason, though! They don't use the best P&S sensor, which they make? Weird.

Since we are speculating, I suspect it is engineering resources. It was the LX-3 and the S90 that begat the new breed of fast-lens / big-sensor compacts. It is possible the most creative Sony engineers were assigned to SLT and NEX.

Even in big companies it is often a few key employees who really make things happen.

With the appearance of the XZ-1 the market is a bit crowded and me-too (LX-3 / LX-5 / TL500 / XZ-1 are all quite similar).

Maybe Sony is better off pushing forward with SLT and NEX rather than adding a me-too high-end compact to a crowded market.
 
NEX + 16mm (or one of the other upcoming pancake lenses) is a better solution for Sony and a better solution for the user.
 
Hi Glen,

I'm not talking about really larger sensors like the APS-C like R1, but just using the same slightly larger sensors that Sony makes for others or even if using typical P&S sensor enabling RAW output.

The support for RAW output is purely a software change.

A NEX is not comparable in size to a P&S when you include the total size including a zoom lens of similar (equivalent) focal lengths. The NEX is also more expensive when such a lens is included in the price.
Glenn said:
I think they just decided that the R1 type cameras were a losing proposition and without IL they were limited anyway. why support a feature that the segment doesn't understand or rarely uses.

on the other hand haven't you nseen NEX? It has more aftermarket support than Alpha. can almost be considered a P&S and has APS-C sensor.. what more could you want?

I think the P&S segment is doing really well with the multishot noise reduction sceme aren't they?
--
http://www.fotosource.com/downloads/flyer/eye_cancer_en_CA.pdf
Click to expand...
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hopeiseternal/
 
Sony are definitely disconnected when it comes to manufacturing & marketing decisions - I would like to know how the hierarchy is structured within the Sony Imaging division. It gives the impression that there are large gaps in the structure which means that major policy decision makers are too remote from manufacturing & sales.

There is a definite need for a killer range of compacts sub NEX level & Sony are perfectly capable of producing such cameras.

--
Keith-C
 
KEITH-C said:
Sony are definitely disconnected when it comes to manufacturing & marketing decisions -
Click to expand...
Is that why Sony is far ahead almost everyone except Canon? Nikon is way behind even Panasonic and Samsung in total # of sales.
 
Henry Richardson said:
HopeSpringsEternal said:
Really? Have you compared the size of a NEX + 24-105mm (35mm equiv) lens compared to a typically sized P&S?
Click to expand...
Also, you have to add the NEX flash when you do the comparison.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
Click to expand...
I don't know about that Henry. I find the low light capability of the Nex to be so good that I have yet to reach for the flash. Admittedly, I've never like the light results from small onboard flashes anyway so having the low light flexibility of the Nex suits me much better..
--
Mike Fewster
Adelaide Australia
 
HopeSpringsEternal said:
Really? Have you compared the size of a NEX + 24-105mm (35mm equiv) lens compared to a typically sized P&S?
Click to expand...
That's because the NEX has a large sensor. It requires large lenses to provide light for a large sensor unless you are using a short pancake prime design (like the 16mm).

If you are fine with a small P/S sensor, then you can have a much smaller zoom lens.
 
Henry Richardson said:
HopeSpringsEternal said:
Really? Have you compared the size of a NEX + 24-105mm (35mm equiv) lens compared to a typically sized P&S?
Click to expand...
Also, you have to add the NEX flash when you do the comparison.
Click to expand...
If you are going to use on-camera flash, just use a compact with a small sensor. No significant IQ gains between a NEX and a small-sensor digicam when you are flashing at ISO 100.

Personally I detest those kinds of photos myself and only use on-camera flash for fill.
 
When you meant "larger sensor" I thought you meant APS or 4/3 size, not something smaller than 2/3". My bad.
 
Mike Fewster said:
I don't know about that Henry. I find the low light capability of the Nex to be so good that I have yet to reach for the flash. Admittedly, I've never like the light results from small onboard flashes anyway so having the low light flexibility of the Nex suits me much better..
Click to expand...
Flash isn't just for low-light. In fact, I almost never use flash for that. It is great for fill-flash outdoors and I do use that sometimes -- with my DSLR too. Good high ISO doesn't help with that.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
 
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