In defense of the E-5

Tony Hall

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The other thread was full, but I wanted to add my two cents. I actually chose to switch to Olympus over other brands when the E-5 came out, a decision that dpreview evidently cannot recommend. It's a decision that I still stick to because I'm not committed and could switch if you could show me a better rig for the money.

First, I think the inferior ISO performance is a little overstated for a couple of reasons.
  • Let's say the 7D has a one stop advantage while the newer K-5 and D7000 have a two stop advantage. The Zuiko zooms are generally about a stop faster than their APS-C equivalents. So, that gives the newest, state of the art cameras a one stop advantage and the 7D no advantage.
  • Nikon and Canon do not have IS built in, which means loosing light for shutter speed in some situations. Let's call that a disadvantage for Canon.
Lens choices for Canon APS-C suck IMO. Most of your lens choices are big bulky lenses designed for full frame. Other than that, you get a handful of overpriced, mediocre lenses that barely outperform the kit lens. I had the 17-55mm IS and it can't touch the 12-60 Zuiko, yet it costs $300 more. What lens can you buy for Nikon or Canon that's the same quality and range as the 12-60mm, for $800?

And what about the fact that Canon's EF-S lenses are dust magnets? Zuiko lenses are weather and dust proof. Not to mention the bodies have superior dust removal. These are the kinds of features that you need in professional gear people or you're going to end up with dusty, broken junk after you've used the stuff for a while.

Also, I think the high price thing is a bit over stated. Sure, the E-5 body is high, but look at the price of the overall package. For the same quality level, Olympus lenses and accessories are generally less expensive than Canon and Nikon.

Autofocus on the E-5 has been frustrating sometimes (in very low light), but not as much as my Canons that I had. I had a 7D with focus problems. It seems I could never get a sharp picture with the thing and I even had a 5DII and T2i and XSI and it seemed that the cameras could not nail the focus. With the E-5, it's usually a bit slower to focus and fails to focus sometimes, but it is more accurate than the Canons I've had. I also like the 11 autofocus points as opposed to the 9 Canon.

I guess I'd rather the camera be honest and not lock focus (like the E-5) than pretend that it did (like a Canon) and give me an out of focus picture.

Then of course is jpeg output. I've found that the tweakability of the E-5 is superior to any other camera I've tried. Not only do jpegs look great at default settings, but by tweaking them I seem to always be able to get the look I want right out of the camera.

And build quality. I've tried the cheap body route. I tried to use a Rebel at a pro gig and the dial stopped working on me (the first time I ever used it for work). I'm confident that the E-5 will not let me down. What other $1700 body is weather proof and built like a tank?

I'm not married to any brand, so I don't defend the E-5 out of brand loyalty. So what other professional-level camera/lens/flash package beats the E-5/12-60mm/50-200mm/50mm/FL 50 for the price?

I tried the 60D in a store and it felt nice and fast, but I doubt the AF accuracy is there like on the Oly. Plus, to match the E-5 and 12-60mm and FL 50, you're looking at almost the same price without the professional build and customization abilities of the E-5.

If I wasn't worried about build quality and was just buying a camera for personal use, I'd probably be looking at a Sony system (I have an A55).

So how am I wrong? Is ISO performance EVERYTHING? What professional quality gear beats Oly for the price?
--

Tony
 
This is the difference in ISO performance between the top cameras

Its a complete stretch to believe any of the garbage DPR says about ISO performance.

here is an example of how little of a difference there is in ISO performance these cameras have and how irrelevent the issue actually is.



 
You'r not wrong with most I think. You are looking at the whole system as you want to use. Thats what plays the biggest role in the practice.

If you look at the samples of the E5 review you will see some high iso photo's. All that photos could be shot at lower iso with a bigger F stop 2.8 or 4 > 7.1 or 5.6. Zuiko's are usable sharp wide open. Also most shutterspeeds are short. For most of that high iso photo's you can use a longer shutterspeed with or without IS. If you look at that real live photo's you can only conclude that the use of high iso is greatly exaggerated. Also you can only conclude that the strongest points of Olympus, lensquality and IS, are not rated what they are worth in this review.
 
Whether you think it's stats add up to a pro camera or not, that is where the E5 is aimed.

Pros write their equipment costs off over time and the cameras earn income for them. My E5 has already earned the $1700 cost back.

While it's unfortunate that people with smaller budgets are effectively frozen out of the regular Four thirds system upgrade cycle (personally I think Oly should have produced an E650 w/video and the EPL sensor) that's not the market this camera is designed for.

I don't remember DPR whinging about the cost of the D300s or the 7D, two cameras the E5 is very close to in terms of performance, because those are obviously aimed at either the pro market or enthusiasts who are less price sensitive.

When it's a Nikon or a Canon they get it. When it's an Olympus, price is a negative.
All we're asking for is a little consistency here.

Douglas Brown
 
...this one's going to get messy.

--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
unfortunately all these threads seem to criticise other manufacturers, a case of blowing others candles out to make your own burn brighter?
--
Maggie Thatcher, your boyz took a hell of a beating
I can't wait for the reams of price lists, thread links, lens reviews and sensor comparing jpegs. I'm getting a strong sense of deja-vu.
--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
 
I can't wait for the reams of price lists, thread links, lens reviews and sensor comparing jpegs. I'm getting a strong sense of deja-vu.
better than a night at the black horse pub for some

--
Riley

any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended
 
Switch to low-light with shadows and you'll see where the difference arises. Don't get me wrong, I use my E-P2 all the way to ISO 3200, but the blacks and the shadows don't have nearly as much detail as the lighter areas have. And this is where the APS-C equivalents will pull ahead as well. Cleaner blacks and shadows in low-light.

At the EOD, it just boils down to what's one's personal threshold of quality, I've never had issues with the E-P2's output up to ISO 1600 and even higher its quite usable.
--
Raj Sarma
http://www.nycstreetshots.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rssarma
--
Follow me on Twitter: rssarma
 
...this one's going to get messy.

--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
unfortunately all these threads seem to criticise other manufacturers, a case of blowing others candles out to make your own burn brighter?
--
Maggie Thatcher, your boyz took a hell of a beating
I can't wait for the reams of price lists, thread links, lens reviews and sensor comparing jpegs. I'm getting a strong sense of deja-vu.
--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
well that is exactly what the review did, and unfortunately it seems to have upset everyone.....well almost everyone :P
--
Maggie Thatcher, your boyz took a hell of a beating
 
Well, DPR complained about the K-5's price but still put it in the semi-pro category and gave it an 83%.

Speaking of price point though, the K-5 is a very expensive camera right now
 
...this one's going to get messy.

--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
unfortunately all these threads seem to criticise other manufacturers, a case of blowing others candles out to make your own burn brighter?
--
Maggie Thatcher, your boyz took a hell of a beating
I can't wait for the reams of price lists, thread links, lens reviews and sensor comparing jpegs. I'm getting a strong sense of deja-vu.
--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
well that is exactly what the review did, and unfortunately it seems to have upset everyone.....well almost everyone :P
Yes but DPR does have some credibility ( I think ) and have actually used the camera.

I think we can look forward to lots of comments from people who have neither touched nor used the E-5.

Personally, I could care less, I don't own one and take reviews with a large pinch of salt. By the time I get my hands on an E-5 everyone will be panicking about the demise of m4/3's lol.
--
Maggie Thatcher, your boyz took a hell of a beating
--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
 
are you kidding ? the difference between 4/3 and apsc is so miniscule there is barely any difference in quality at all. If you are shooting in low light you use a tripod , even with full frame. If you are using an ep2 stop using ISO beyond 800 and start using a tripod , period. People dont often know this but low light photography is something you do with a tripod and flash , real photographers know that low light photography cannot be done handheld with any camera with the same quality as a tripod shot at low iso. Its not a problem of technology its a problem of noob photographers thinking that ISO is there to hold their hand through dark enviroments , you shouldnt be using it in the first place.
Switch to low-light with shadows and you'll see where the difference arises. Don't get me wrong, I use my E-P2 all the way to ISO 3200, but the blacks and the shadows don't have nearly as much detail as the lighter areas have. And this is where the APS-C equivalents will pull ahead as well. Cleaner blacks and shadows in low-light.

At the EOD, it just boils down to what's one's personal threshold of quality, I've never had issues with the E-P2's output up to ISO 1600 and even higher its quite usable.
--
Raj Sarma
http://www.nycstreetshots.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rssarma
--
Follow me on Twitter: rssarma
 
Switch to low-light with shadows and you'll see where the difference arises. Don't get me wrong, I use my E-P2 all the way to ISO 3200, but the blacks and the shadows don't have nearly as much detail as the lighter areas have. And this is where the APS-C equivalents will pull ahead as well. Cleaner blacks and shadows in low-light.
Seems likely.
At the EOD, it just boils down to what's one's personal threshold of quality, I've never had issues with the E-P2's output up to ISO 1600 and even higher its quite usable.
As others have pointed out elsewhere, high ISO is fine on a lot of cameras if you're in reasonable light. You can use it for shooting sports in broad daylight, for instance. Get into dim light, though, and you may be asking for trouble in shadows.

A lot of my stuff is macro, shot with flash. High ISO isn't something I need or use a lot. I think people expect a camera to do everything well, which IMO is partly fair and partly not. If someone said to me that they wanted to buy a camera to do a lot of low light street shooting, I'd think, 'Probably not Olympus...unless maybe you have mad ninja photoshop skills.'

Horses for courses, I say. I still like the dust reduction, still like the articulated screen, still like the OOC jpegs, still like IBIS, and so on. But to each his own---I have no gripe with others who found tools from other brands that let them accomplish what they want, given a price point and investment of time for pp needed to bring it to fruition.
--
Gear listed in profile under "plan."

Someone stop me before I buy again, please!
Dave
 
Give yourself a slap on the wrist and write 100 times - "I couldn't care less".

Please no more mangling of the English language unless you actually have been born to mangle the English language as our American cousins have ...

It'll be "glass" instead of lens next - I have glass in my windows, but I put lenses on my cameras,

Nick
 
Give yourself a slap on the wrist and write 100 times - "I couldn't care less".

Please no more mangling of the English language unless you actually have been born to mangle the English language as our American cousins have ...

It'll be "glass" instead of lens next - I have glass in my windows, but I put lenses on my cameras,

Nick
I promise not to do it again as long as everybody else stops calling football "soccer" - don't even get me started on that one!!!!!
--
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
 
The ability to use fast lenses that are very sharp wide open, effectively eliminates any perceived "high ISO not so good" problem, because in my experience (wide and varied, including very low light), I never ever need to take ISO that high.

Here is more elaboration of that thought in another thread (don't want to start repeating the same things in numerous threads) :

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=37641948

--
Roel Hendrickx

lots of images : http://www.roelh.zenfolio.com

my E-3 user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html
 
Cos it might just send the prices of the E5 down to a more affordable level very soon.

Even if not heavily invested in oly system... its a system that allows people to use OM,Minolta MD/MC, nikon, konica hexanons... etc lenses on it quite conveniently.

And the review also clearly reminds us olympus system is an acquired taste. Proceed at your own peril.

I love my e330/e3 but i won't recommend it to other people so easily.

--
My Galleries
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/sadwitch
 
The other thread was full, but I wanted to add my two cents. I actually chose to switch to Olympus over other brands when the E-5 came out, a decision that dpreview evidently cannot recommend. It's a decision that I still stick to because I'm not committed and could switch if you could show me a better rig for the money.

First, I think the inferior ISO performance is a little overstated for a couple of reasons.
  • Let's say the 7D has a one stop advantage while the newer K-5 and D7000 have a two stop advantage. The Zuiko zooms are generally about a stop faster than their APS-C equivalents. So, that gives the newest, state of the art cameras a one stop advantage and the 7D no advantage.
This isn't true at all - unless you are buying and comparing with SHG glass only for the most part. That can be fine but then you are forced to buy $1700-$2500 USD lenses. That's a big jump. And it's still not true for some primes.

Don't get me wrong, I think Olympus Zuiko lenses are great. But the above isn't quite right. Much less when you have F1.4, F1.8 prime lens options too.
So how am I wrong? Is ISO performance EVERYTHING? What professional quality gear beats Oly for the price?
Depends on your needs. If you want better ISO, better DR, smaller and weather sealed I can think of a competitor. And consider too, they are doing at a lower price(!)
--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo
 

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