UK camera insurance?

I had thought about that but I'll still get about £1400 or so my D700 which will be enough for me to buy a second hand one about the same age with warranty or I can add another £300-£400 to get a new one. All my lenses I buy 2nd hand anyway and keep the ebay receipts.

I have the All Risks, there's not much point having insurance which does not cover you for All Risks. £66 for £2000 worth of cover, if anyone can find better please share it with me.

This is of course a worst case scenario. I hope never to have to make a claim, I am very careful, but it provides peace of mind.

Premium wise E&L look about the best but bear in mind insurer valuations on old equipment can be disappointingly low. Once something is 3-4 years old they won't be paying over £1k for anything but a D3 or 1DS upward.

Also, bear in mind if your camera is no longer available then under a new for old insurers have to replace it with the equivilent current model so that tends to mean an upgrade (though if you don't like the new model - tough!). Of course any goods provided under a new for old policy also have 12 months warranty.

If price is the driver, with this in mind (and particularly if your camera is a recent purchase) there is nothing wrong with the E&L cover. I use them for my pet insurance and find them very good to deal with.

Those with older systems who want comfort of new for old should consider someone else.

Cheers

Danny

--
You are only as good as someone else says you are

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannybower

Still need to read the nitty gritty details but E&L quotes me at £220 vs photoguard's £450. Massive saving difference if it really is the same.

Cheers,
Christakis
--
http://blog.christakisphoto.com/
(Updated every Monday and Friday)

Possibly next year I will change when my gear gets older, but, to be honest if I got the second hand value I would be happy as I can replace like for like. It was only my camera body that I bought new anyway.

I'm currently fighting with a different insurance company over a stolen scooter. They only want to offer me £1000 where as I want £1200. Fortunately for me I only bought the bike for £750 6 years ago. Just shows how prices can go up on some things as well as down.

Always make sure you read the policy before you buy that's all I can say. I've worked in insurance for 10 years and 8 of those have been at a very technical level and I'm aware of all the ways insurers use to minimise the amount they pay out in claims.

I am happy to review the E&L policy and compare it against the others.

@Christakis - what level of cover are you asking for a quote (amatuer, professional etc) and how much cover and any extras?

Cheers

Danny B
--
You are only as good as someone else says you are

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannybower

I have another question about Photoguard. The 'in vehicle' cover - specifically, I'm not sure how that covers me and their offices are closed over the weekend. I drive around on scooters or motorbikes, and would never leave the camera in the scooter when it's parked, so that's not really an issue. But if I had an accident and the scooter skidded off down the road, that could damage the camera, and I can't work out if that's covered. The policy wording talks about me having to either die, lose a limb or suffer a permanent disability as a result of an accident, which means it's a REALLY serious one.

What about a less serious accident but one that nonetheless damages the camera?

Thanks.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_dalton/

With regards to cover in vehicle this specifically relates to theft from. In the event of an accident then your kit should be covered under the accidental damage section of the policy. Futher, if the accident was someone elses fault you should be able to claim off their motor insurance.

Always worth clarifying with the insurer but I would be surprised if it were different.

Cheers

Danny B
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Shoot lots...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannybower

Danny, just wanted to say - on behalf of all of us who are following this thread with interest- thanks for all your help, advice and insider knowledge. Some of the things you have pointed out are excellent information that only some one like you would spot. It's really great you have taken the time to do this.

It's amazing how things appear simple. My Girlfriend is an independent mortgage broker, and all ther time poeple say "I can get a better/cheaper deal". It's only when she actually points out the "real" differences or criteria for eligibility that some of these "deals" offer do people realise these things.

Cheers Woody
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After 10 years of picture taking - you'd have thought I'd have learnt to remove the lens cap...

I'm happy to do that for you if you can tell me some more details of your quote (level of cover etc).

Cheers

Danny B
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Shoot lots...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannybower

I'd like to add my thanks, Danny, to the other posters'.

Regarding 'accidental damage' - in my scooter scenario, the camera is not covered, according to Photoguard, unless the camera is in an 'equipment case' at the time of the accident, which is defined as 'a purpose designed proprietary padded case bought from a recognised supplier of photographic equipment'. So I guess my £14.99 Atlas bag would come under this, right? It's not a hard case but it is padded and designed for cameras.

Thanks.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_dalton/

Not at all, you are all most welcome. Its what I do for a living and for some reason I quite enjoy it - never intended to be an insurance underwriter. Went to university to train to be a primary school teacher!

Insurance is such a minefield and with sites like moneysupermarket.com et al the cost to the customer has come down and down. Unfortunately in a lot of cases so has the level of cover and then people wonder why their claim isn't paid due to some obscure exclusion.

To give you an example I pay around £100 per year more on my car insurance to go with a company that has settled two claims for me. One was my fault and one wasn't and both times I only had to make one phone call and they took care of th rest. Well worth paying a bit more for in my opinion.

I'll have a look through the E&L wording tomorrow if I get chance to see what accounts for the cheaper price.

Cheers

Danny B

ukwoody said:

Danny, just wanted to say - on behalf of all of us who are following this thread with interest- thanks for all your help, advice and insider knowledge. Some of the things you have pointed out are excellent information that only some one like you would spot. It's really great you have taken the time to do this.

Click to expand...

ukwoody said:

Cheers Woody
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After 10 years of picture taking - you'd have thought I'd have learnt to remove the lens cap...

Click to expand...

--
Shoot lots...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannybower

Hi Danny,

Thanks for volunteering to go through the small print

The details I put where:
Amateur cover
Unattended Vehicle: No (Don't need it)
Worldwide Cover: Yes
Sum: £9000
Yearly Policy

The only thing that is not clear is what is the difference between Amateur and Professional. They've got about £70 difference which is 30% more.

Cheers,
Christakis
--
http://blog.christakisphoto.com/
(Updated every Monday and Friday)

I've had a look through the E&L wording and there are a few things that jump out at me.

The main thing for me is the lack of new for old cover once your equipment is more than 1 year old (2 years old if you're paying monthly). This is significantly less cover than that offered by Camerasure or Photoguard and will account for £75 - £100 of the price difference (think about it - you're insuring £9k's worth of kit that's say 3 years old, E&L will probably take 10% per year off the value thus they only have to pay you £6k where as the others have to pay the full £9k).

Second significant difference is the excess. E&L will make you pay 7.5% of the sum insured rising to 12.5% for theft from vehicles. This is massive on £9k - £675 or £1125 for then from vehicles. With Photoguard its possible to not pay an excess at all and with Towergate the standard excess is £150 rising to £300 for theft from vehicles. This again will account for around £50 of the difference.

I am also concerned by a couple of security conditions they have:

When insured equipment is in premises open to the public and is not being used or

attended, it must be locked in a separate and secure area not accessible by anyone except

you, and be secured by a five-lever lock to British Standard 3621. Any security systems must be put into full effective operation.

and

Loss or damage:
(a) arising solely from electrical or mechanical breakdown;

(b) from anywhere except a defined place or during specified time span no greater
than 24 hours.

First one may be difficult to adhere to because you have no control over the standard of lock fitted. The second one worries me because I they don't tell me what a defined place is. If it means the main address as on the schedule then basically you're not covered if your camera and you are out of the house on a weekend away as this exceeds the 24 hours. I'd be asking questions over this.

There is no difference between the amatuer and professional policies, I can only assume that the professional one will be more expensive as there is a higher chance of a public liability claim.

The only other observation I would make is that the policy wording is not as coherent as the Photoguard or Camerasure ones which have very specifically been tailored towards the needs of a photographer. The E&L one seems to be created out of clauses and conditions from other policies (they use sets of CD's as an example when explaining cover).

In summary, the E&L cover is very well priced and does provide a level of cover accordingly. If you can live without new for old cover and can pay the high excesses then you'll save yourseld some money on the premium. The others are more expensive but provide (in my opinion) better cover for the needs of a photographer.

I hope this helps and any other questions let me know.

Cheers

Danny B

--
Shoot lots...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannybower

I've just taken out a policy with Photoguard. It came to about £45 a year. It's a basic policy - no abroad cover, no in-vehicle cover - but as I would rarely leave the camera in the car and don't go abroad that much, it didn't seem worth it.

My equipment came to about £1340 in the end but Photoguard told me I can just add new equipment as and when I purchase it and increase the amount I'm insured for without paying extra fees (beyond the slightly higher cost associated with having more insured).

So... yeah. £4.40 a month isn't too hard to find to have my D7000 insured. Thanks Danny for your advice, this thread should be stickied because of your responses!

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/j_dalton/

@JDalton apologies, didn't see your question re: the camera bag.

My opinion is that you meet Photoguard's requirements, so long as Atlas are a recognised supplier of camera bags (I googled them and couldn't find any).

If not, somewhere like warehouseexpress.com do Lowepro bags etc starting from not a lot of money.

Anything else please let me know.

Cheers

Danny B

--
Shoot lots...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannybower

Hi Danny,

Thank you once again for going in all the trouble to analyse the T&C.

What always confuses me is what determines the sum you get back from the insurer for a specific claim, especially if the item you claim against is used.

It is sort of straight forward for common cameras and lenses but what happens in the even of more specialised equipment, especially lenses. Depending on supply vs demand the price of a used lens can be equal to that of a new one. And, that is the case for a few handful of lenses today. Unfortunately the two lenses I want to insure (Total value of £4000 in used condition) fall under this category.

I don't want to insure the lenses and then find myself in the unfortunate event of word picking with the insurer on how much a lens costs. They simply cant say "ahh it looses 10% of it's value every year" because that is not the case, in fact, they gain value instead.

Also, how do prove how old (or new) a lens is when you bought it second hand? Obviously you will have the receipt which states the price you paid for it but that does not state how old the lens really is.

Additionally, will the insurance company ensure you will get a replacement for that specific piece of equipment or simply gives you a lump sum which may or may not cover the actual costs to replace the stolen goods?

Cheers,
Christakis
--
http://blog.christakisphoto.com/
(Updated every Monday and Friday)

Ah, the black art ofd claims underwriting. Insurers tend to use the i/trade/i price for used equipment. Always an area of contention as us public can't always by at trade price. If the equipment was used when you bought it they would tend to (though not always) go on the manufactured date based on the serial number if available.

This is why I wouldn't by the E&L cover. With Photoguard and Camerasure you don't have this issue as they will simply replace it with a new one.

More difficult with difficult to source high value used kit. It may be worth talking to your ultimate insurer to see if they will insure the lenses for an 'agreed value'. This means you specify the amount you want paying out in the event of a claim. This method of insuring is very common in the classic car market where the pure trade price of a car may be a lot lower than its true worth.

Cheers

Danny B
--
Shoot lots...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dannybower