The Upcoming Panasonic 25mm 1.4

Apparently this lens should be coming some time in 2011 and I for one am looking forward to it. What are your speculations on the pricing of this lens? The 14mm and 20mm cost about the same here in Denmark ($515 and $570, respectively) and i really hope that the 25mm will not be too expensive compared to these two. It seems that you pay a slight premium on the 14mm due to its wideness even though it is slower than the 20mm. Based on this it seems somewhat reasonable to assume that the 25mm should be about the same price (maybe slightly more) than the 20mm due to it being a bit longer and just slightly faster.

My real reason for asking is, that i currently own both the Olympus 17mm and the Panasonic 20mm and feel that one of them has to go. If the 25mm is not too far off (and not outrageously priced) my idea would be to keep the 17mm, get rid of the 20mm and then buy the 25mm to have a classic 35mm+50mm prime set.

The new 25/1.4 will not be a pancake, I believe. For me, that's a big let down - I find that compactness is the major advantage of my E-P2 towards the DSLRs.

I have the 20/1.7 and I find it an excellent compact lens. The slightly wider FL is not a problem, it actually can make the image a bit more interesting, as I find the traditional 50 mm FL is a bit boring. The somewhat lower aperture is negligible, in my opinion.

I would only be willing to by a non-compact prime lens if it were a traditional portrait FL (40 to 50 mm - in u4/3).

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My photography blog: http://exposingpixels.blogspot.com/

I expect the price could be double that of the existing pancake lenses. Panasonic will designate this as a HD lens and will likely have higher quality optics. For indoor video this will be a must have lens as the 20mm is too noisy and slow focusing and the 14mm is not bright enough.

I am holding off on a GH2 hoping they will offer this lens as a kit option instead of the 14-140mm lens.

I don't really mind if it isn't a pancake, but as someone who has close to zero interest in the movie functions of my camera I really hope that the 25mm won't be a HD lens (with the associated increase in price).

I use the 25 most of the time. the mFT successor should not compromise on optical quality in favour of size. The 20mm suffices as a small alternative

With the already great 20mm f1.7, I can't really see the need in a kit for a 25mm 1.4

Slightly faster and slightly longer, but really not enough to make be feel its something I really need

A good fast 80-100 equiv lens with OS and AF though would be a very welcome addition

So many people use the 50mm "normal" MF lenses of various makes for the portrait type needs that it seems the natural choice to fill, but go figure

17mm, 20mm and 25mm is pretty well covered

Just like how we've got no short of 14mm options but nothing 12mm or wider

Makes little sense

I can see your point as to the 20mm being good enough. I do, however, find it just a tad too wide for my needs and quite a bit too close to the 17mm in focal length. A 25mm would make for a more useful kit in combination with the 17mm. One can of course hope for a 25mm from Olympus, even though it isn't on their road map. Would be especially cool if they could retain the small diameter of the 17mm and simply add length. I find the 20mm a bit bulky compared to the Olympus lenses.

tomasl77 said:

I use the 25 most of the time. the mFT successor should not compromise on optical quality in favour of size. The 20mm suffices as a small alternative

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Hi,

What exactly is the optical quality you are thinking of?

I like th e25/1.4 for its longer focal length, the half a stop of speed and the aperture ring. I'm not sure though there is anything about optical quality making it better than the pancake.

Jonas

You can't have close focus and compactness, the 25mm f1.4 (rumored) should be close focusing I think I dont care for size all that much close focus YES.
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John

http://boyzo.smugmug.com
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This is unlikely to be video optimised
It's going to be like the classic PL 25/1.4
--
John

http://boyzo.smugmug.com
http://picasaweb.google.com/john.boyzo

millsart said:

Just like how we've got no short of 14mm options but nothing 12mm or wider

Click to expand...

No shortage indeed Understated but agreed!
oly 14-42 1
oly 14-42 1 plastic mount cheapo
oly 14-42 2
oly 14-150

pan 14-45
pan 14-42
pan 14mm
pan 14-140

count 4/3?
pan 14-50mm
oly 14-42mm
oly 14-54mm
oly 14-35mm

It's like the sum of 2 lucky numbers!

I've owned both. I sold my 25mm for an epl1+20mm.

The 25 is somewhat sharper at the center (wide open!), and the bokeh is glorious.

That said, my 20 is a feather in my cap almost literally

Jonas B said:

tomasl77 said:

I use the 25 most of the time. the mFT successor should not compromise on optical quality in favour of size. The 20mm suffices as a small alternative

Click to expand...

Hi,

What exactly is the optical quality you are thinking of?

I like th e25/1.4 for its longer focal length, the half a stop of speed and the aperture ring. I'm not sure though there is anything about optical quality making it better than the pancake.

Jonas

Click to expand...

yes, the Panaleica is sharper in the centre. I use it in combination with the FL50 a lot, and there it shows. A close rival of the Olympus 2/50 (usually I carry EP1/25/50/7-14)

beomagi said:

I've owned both. I sold my 25mm for an epl1+20mm.

The 25 is somewhat sharper at the center (wide open!), and the bokeh is glorious.

That said, my 20 is a feather in my cap almost literally

Click to expand...

...and...

tomasl77 said:

yes, the Panaleica is sharper in the centre. I use it in combination with the FL50 a lot, and there it shows. A close rival of the Olympus 2/50 (usually I carry EP1/25/50/7-14)

Click to expand...

I own both, I have owned one pancake only but several copies of the 25/1.4. There are some minor sample variations. One of the PL lenses were, hard to measure but still, quarter of a notch sharper in the center, the other ones were/are not.

For any practical purpose there is no difference (to my eyes and IMA-test agrees). But I'm open for both opinions and facts. Do you have any links to reviews or other good unbiased sources telling us the PL25 is "sharper"?

The bokeh... well, that can be discussed. During my time in the Olympus SLR forum the general meaning was that the PL25 either is the best lens ever, or that it is a very good lens (albeit big, heavy and expensive) showing a somewhat nervous bokeh wide open.

I know the PL25 has more LoCA than the pancake. That is also a part of the bokeh. I do guess anyone liking the ZD50/2 macro is not very sensitive to LoCA though.

Frankly, I don't see the PL being significantly optically superior. I like the rendering from the PL25 better for the most of the time. Sometimes LoCA totally ruins the images and then the pancake is better. Franky, I suspect most of the little advantage that the PL25 has is down to its longer focal length.

Ergonomics though... here the PL25 wins hands down. That os when used on a G1 where the aperture rings works and manual focusing is easier to perform than it is with the too small pancake.

Any links to reviews?

Jonas

millsart said:

With the already great 20mm f1.7, I can't really see the need in a kit for a 25mm 1.4

Slightly faster and slightly longer, but really not enough to make be feel its something I really need

Click to expand...

I won't be getting the 25mm but at f1.4 that's an extra stop almost (f1.8 - f1.4 is 1 stop if i'm not mistaken) which could be a big deal to a lot of people. For me, I love the 20mm too much already, I find 40mm is more desirable than 50mm, it's the f1.4 speed that's impressive.

Gethenderson said:

I won't be getting the 25mm but at f1.4 that's an extra stop almost (f1.8 - f1.4 is 1 stop if i'm not mistaken)...

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f/2 to f/1.4 is a 1-stop interval.

Jonas B said:

I own both, I have owned one pancake only but several copies of the 25/1.4. There are some minor sample variations. One of the PL lenses were, hard to measure but still, quarter of a notch sharper in the center, the other ones were/are not.

The bokeh... well, that can be discussed. During my time in the Olympus SLR forum the general meaning was that the PL25 either is the best lens ever, or that it is a very good lens (albeit big, heavy and expensive) showing a somewhat nervous bokeh wide open.

I know the PL25 has more LoCA than the pancake. That is also a part of the bokeh. I do guess anyone liking the ZD50/2 macro is not very sensitive to LoCA though.

Frankly, I don't see the PL being significantly optically superior. I like the rendering from the PL25 better for the most of the time. Sometimes LoCA totally ruins the images and then the pancake is better. Franky, I suspect most of the little advantage that the PL25 has is down to its longer focal length.

Ergonomics though... here the PL25 wins hands down. That os when used on a G1 where the aperture rings works and manual focusing is easier to perform than it is with the too small pancake.

Any links to reviews?

Jonas

Click to expand...

sorry, only commenting based on my experience.

I used the PL 25mm on my e620 before getting the epl1 - so the aperture ring didn't work for me .

I did love it for the out of focus areas.



; (full pic)
http://beomagi.ath.cx/picture_net/radiocontrol/Warmachine/P1237517.JPG

The 20mm does better when stopped down. IMO, the 25 never did astound past F5.6 I liked doing a lot of night shots with extended shutter times.

The big downfall for me with the 25mm 4/3 was phase detect focus, while fast in good light, sucked where you wanted the f1.4 aperture. It was the entire reason for me getting the 20mm f1.7+epl1. The e620 was off on focus in low light, or oftentimes didn't get focus lock. I was using cdaf, because it was far more dependable, and accurate.

IMO, while i did like the out-of-focus areas of the 25, and the slight center sharpness advantage (you're right - I did no formal test, this is perceived), and the half stop advantage, I think the 20 is just overall better, since the combination of lens plus camera means, I'm focusing faster, more accurately, not missing shots, and overall, lighter/smaller than the 25mm itself.

photozone made test of bot and the 20mm f1.7 is sharper in the center at f2.8 i believe but then in the middle of the frame and in corners the panasonic 25mm 1.4 is sharper but they are both very good

compositor20 said:

photozone made test of bot and the 20mm f1.7 is sharper in the center at f2.8 i believe but then in the middle of the frame and in corners the panasonic 25mm 1.4 is sharper but they are both very good

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Hmm. Photozone used different cameras for their tests so the result is hard to compare. Or impossible. All I can read from the charts is that the pancake/GF1 is sharper everywhere at f/2.8 than the PL25/L10 is. My not really possible to make conclusion is that the lenses perform pretty much the same.

Jonas

beomagi said:

(...)

IMO, while i did like the out-of-focus areas of the 25, and the slight center sharpness advantage (you're right - I did no formal test, this is perceived), and the half stop advantage, I think the 20 is just overall better, since the combination of lens plus camera means, I'm focusing faster, more accurately, not missing shots, and overall, lighter/smaller than the 25mm itself.

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Thank you for elaborating. This was way more interesting than your first reply... !

I think it is about personal preferences. Some will with no doubt prefer the PL25. Some will prefer the smaller and cheaper pancake. It is hard to say one of them is a winner optically.

regards,

Jonas