Last doubts about FA 77mm limited purchase.

Jirka-

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I have ordered the FA 77 limited and have some doubts whether I should not go for the DA 70 instead.

One of the reasons for buying one of these lenses is to begin to build up a lightweight array of lenses for Pentax K-7. The 2.8 50/135 zoom makes better pictures than I would have expexted from a zoom, however my total equipment is heavy and sometimes I take just the K-7 and FA 35/2.

The reasons for and against FA 77:

It is faster than the DA 70. This advantage may become less significant if I decide to upgrade to K5.

According to reviews the FA seems to be better at low apertures, but the FA is maybe slightly better stopped down.

FA 77 is expensive for my budget, but there is the irratonal appeal of a beautifully made classic lens.

FA has an aperture ring which would enable me a very cheap macro solution.

Some examples of the sort of pictures I would like to take with the lens (all with 50-135 pentax DA zoom) - with pentax K-10, I did not have much time and mood for photography since I bought the K-7 with both my parents seriously ill :

A portrait in low available light (it is a last picture of my mother who died three weeks ago at age 85, taken on the day of her 84th birthday).





A tripod shot taken with the sun just bellow the horizon (that is why I made is so dark)





A hanheld shot of a static object with the lens stopped only slightly - the only place from which I could shoot the beatifull sundial without perspective distortion is inside a chateux where using tripod is not allowed. ( To show noon it had to be shot at 1PM summertime; the time data in the exif are not correct which is true for all the images)



 
The second picture came out even darker than I expected: it was adjusted for printing on Epson 1900 R printer, where it was OK.
 
Well the 77 is a classic, no doubt. It was the first Limited I got about 6 years back and I have never regretted it when the DA70 was released. The DA70 doesn't best it anywhere really from what I have seen except weight (and at f/1.8 which the DA can't do anyway :) ) Good for portraiture and as a general purpose shot tele but also as you say, due to the aperture ring you can use it as a close focus/macro lens with tubes.

Here is one from way back in 2004

77 @ f/4 on *istD



and at f/2.8



--
Brett
http://www.pbase.com/shreder



The Journey is the Thing
 
I have ordered the FA 77 limited and have some doubts whether I should not go for the DA 70 instead.
I understand - I've been having the same considerations going on in my head as I want to get either the 70mm or the 77mm.

A few days ago there was a post on this forum (wish I would have saved it) that showed the two lenses compared side by side a various apertures.

There is NO doubt in my mind that the bokeh of the 77mm is quite superior to the 70mm. I would say that if bokeh quality is of primary important to you (as it is to me) - go with the 77mm.

Otherwise, go with the 70mm. It's less expensive, and the resolution is more harmonious between the center and the edges.
 
You forgot FA77 is full frame. I have a DA limited 40 and I'm concerned the value will plummet if Pentax releases a full frame camera. But you can't beat the portability. You'll have second thoughts no matter what you buy.

I bought a $159 dollar zoom (from a third party) for my K-7 and what a disappointment. Cheap plastic build, zoom mechanism feels "loose", loud and slow, ugly. It's obviously not going to last. My DA limited in contrast feels great and built to last. I'm sure the FA limited are the same. Don't forget you can't buy these lenses used for much less than new ones. If you don't like it you could easily sell it without much loss.
 
To my mind, the biggest difference in IQ between these two is rendering style. The 70 is more of the stark, straight-forward style. And it does this very well. Many people prefer this. The 77 has a soul. Call it magic, pixie-dust, whatever. It gives warm, "romantic" images like perhaps no other portrait lens on the planet. While this does not appeal to everyone, my sense is that it does appeal to most. That being said, you either "get" the 77 or you don't. If you haven't already, you may want to access some online galleries to view images taken with both lenses. The one that is for you will probably reveal itself.
 
From what I know of it, the 50-135 is so good that either the 70 or 77 Ltd will be like icing on the cake--great for when you want to work with a lightweight kit of two prime lenses. I happen to own the 77 Ltd, and I can attest that it is superb. According to PTlens, it has no distortion whatsoever, if that matters. I use it mainly for extra reach to supplement my DA*16-50. In truth, you cannot go wrong with either of the two Limiteds.

Rob
 
I bought the DA70 because in theory it is smaller, but in reality it is only smaller if you take off the lens hood and leave it behind. I always use a lens hood so in reality the size issue turned out to be a non-issue. I would like the longer reach and faster aperture of the FA77, but I'm not willing to give up the quick-shift focusing so I guess my DA70 is a keeper.
 
You forgot FA77 is full frame. I have a DA limited 40 and I'm concerned the value will plummet if Pentax releases a full frame camera. But you can't beat the portability. You'll have second thoughts no matter what you buy.
Why on earth would the value of the DA40 plummet if Pentax brought out a FF model? Any FF Pentax would be added to the top of the current lineup and would take only a small fraction of current APS-C share. Contrary to some posters here, most current Pentax DSLR users would not jump to FF, and are content with the performance of APS-C, which will remain the mainstay of Pentax's business for the foreseeable future.

In any case, you can use the DA40 on a FF body with little or no loss of IQ - I've tried it. You can't lose...
--
Jim King - Retired Colormonger - Suburban Detroit, Michigan, USA; GMT -5h (EST)
Pentaxian for over 45 years.



* * * * *
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
  • Sir Winston Churchill
* * * * *
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
  • Albert Einstein
 
To my mind, the biggest difference in IQ between these two is rendering style. The 70 is more of the stark, straight-forward style. And it does this very well. Many people prefer this. The 77 has a soul. Call it magic, pixie-dust, whatever. It gives warm, "romantic" images like perhaps no other portrait lens on the planet. While this does not appeal to everyone, my sense is that it does appeal to most. That being said, you either "get" the 77 or you don't. If you haven't already, you may want to access some online galleries to view images taken with both lenses. The one that is for you will probably reveal itself.
Exactly, the rendering behavior of the 77ltd was why I chose it over the 70ltd. To my eye the 70ltd, and all the DA LTD's, have a more clinical or if you prefer "dogmatic/pedantic", way of rendering a shot. It's very subjective and there is nothing wrong with the DA images, they are WONDERFUL, but there is something, perhaps the subject isolation you can achieve with the FA glass, which does set them apart from the DA glass which to me is more Canikon-like though still different and preferable to me as I use a 35ltd for most product shots but am considering switching to my 43ltd and 77ltd (I almost never use the 31ltd, it's weird huh?) to see if the look creates more interest from people looking at the images. it will be an interesting experiment though a subjective one for sure.

I think everyone who ultimately looks at getting into the Pentax Limiteds faces the dilemma of FA vs. DA Limiteds...I chose the FA and now have the Three Amigos de Plata as I like to call mine. ;) But I got mine nearer to the old prices not today's price points. Still after shooting Canon for so long I never felt the images had any "character" which is something like I feel when looking at my images with the DA I have. But too that could be because I have the one DA Limited Macro and all macros render in the same rectilinear fashion, especially in comparison to the FA Limiteds.

I say if you have the cash and it is not irresponsible to spend the cash on a lense, buy the FA series (it does not seem to matter if the lense is a MIV or MIJ build other than they no longer make the silver lenses in Vietnam as far as I am aware anyway.) They will last for decades and while I have no doubt about the DA Limiteds build they are of more recent vintage. As for the whole fringing/CA issue...yeah, it can happen and you need to accept when it will and it won't always be 100% fixable in post, but it can be controlled more and more as you work with the lense. I don't see it any more in my FA's than I do in my DA Limited. Better said I have yet to have the fringing/CA ruin a shot for my needs but know it could happen.

Either way for the OP...try out the FA and see what happens, compare it to your DA* and see how different it is....the differences will be subtle until you open the lense up a bit, even at f/2 the difference in rendering is amazing over the f/2.8 in the DA* or DA Limiteds. But your DA* 50-135 is closer to that of the FA Limiteds than the DA Limiteds when it comes to image rendering, at least to me. However I had both for a brief period and never replaced my 50-135 when it went crib-death on me during it's first 30-days. I found no need given the set of FA's combined with the 35ltd. I still desire a sealed lense someday though, why have a sealed body if ya don't have one...so enjoy that DA* even after you go FA Limited...you know what they say "...once you go FA Limited you won't go back..."!! :p

--
Real men shoot Pentax because we were born with our own Canons!!
{Ok...ok, some of use just shoot with a PnS but it always makes me happy! :D}

Beligerent commenters are just afflicted with SFmS (Stud Field Mouse Syndrome)
 
Went for a walk today in the wintery weather, me with my wife's FA77, which I hadn't used much before, on my K-5, and she with her latest lens, a used DA50-135, on her K-5, and looking at the results tonight - wow! Both very, very nice :-)!

We too waivered between the FA77, or the DA70, but looking at pictures on the web we found the FA77 had the edge, by quite some margin.

Is this FA77, or DA50-135:





Or this:





The Lower picture was taken with the FA77 - the date given is totally absurb, as the camera is set to the correct date and time - it didn't even exist in 1970! The car to the right is the Avensis, seen in the top photo!

This was quite unusual, as the kid on dad's shoulder is fast asleep!





--
tord (at) mindless (dot) com
 
I have both. The DA70 is great. Get the FA77.

Here is a snapshot taken yesterday at my friend's son's birthday. F2.2, 1/400th, ISO1600, FA77, K5.



 
Get the 77, its the special lens among the 3 FA ltds. The only other lens that could beat it is the FA* 85... Enjoy~ :D

Lee
 
Than you all for your comments. I picked up the FA 77 yesterday night and it´s a beuty. What pleased me enormously is the full-fledged DOF scale. I miss that a lot on zooms, but even many primes today have only a reduced DOF scale.

I did not have time to take any proper picures with it but tonight I will go to a pre-christmass party where there will be an opportunity to shoot some portraits in avalable light.

ROB is perfectly right that the DA 2.8 50/135 has excellent IQ and the Limited would be just an icing on the cake from the point of view of IQ.

However:

My photographic gear is quite heavy and I find it difficult to transport it when I have other luggage as well.

The big zoom lens especially with the lens hood on is quite intimidating and makes some people camera-shy.

The Limited is more than one stop faster.

When shooting carefully composed pictures from a tripod, the absence of DOF scale forces me to use unnecessarily big f numbers where the diffraction really bites into the sharpness.
 
Yeah i can't understand this way of thinking either. If a FF Pentax is released and people start selling their DA lenses, there will be plenty who will buy them.

That said i have the FA77 and its a wonderful lens, but probably is beat by the DA70 in one area..... focus speed. the FA77 is probably the slowest focussing pentax lens made other than the macros.

anyway i've got a mixture of FA, DFA and DA lenses. look at the old A and M lenses and how much they are worth... The DA series will still be in demand.
You forgot FA77 is full frame. I have a DA limited 40 and I'm concerned the value will plummet if Pentax releases a full frame camera. But you can't beat the portability. You'll have second thoughts no matter what you buy.
Why on earth would the value of the DA40 plummet if Pentax brought out a FF model? Any FF Pentax would be added to the top of the current lineup and would take only a small fraction of current APS-C share. Contrary to some posters here, most current Pentax DSLR users would not jump to FF, and are content with the performance of APS-C, which will remain the mainstay of Pentax's business for the foreseeable future.

In any case, you can use the DA40 on a FF body with little or no loss of IQ - I've tried it. You can't lose...
--
Jim King - Retired Colormonger - Suburban Detroit, Michigan, USA; GMT -5h (EST)
Pentaxian for over 45 years.



* * * * *
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
  • Sir Winston Churchill
* * * * *
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
  • Albert Einstein
--
Justin
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pentaxphotogallery/justinwatson
 
...The only other lens that could beat it is the FA* 85...
Now you spoil it for me! I was trying to sell the 85 and only keep the 77.
 
You forgot FA77 is full frame. I have a DA limited 40 and I'm concerned the value will plummet if Pentax releases a full frame camera.
Gee whiz it was already a bargain for a top shelf lens,
Not sure there is much plummeting in the offing :)

Pete

K-7 some Len
 
I did not have time to take any proper picures with it but tonight I will go to a pre-christmass party where there will be an opportunity to shoot some portraits in avalable light.

The big zoom lens especially with the lens hood on is quite intimidating and makes some people camera-shy.
Here are some pictures from the party. The light was really week and the sharpness of the shots is a question how well can the K-7 stabiize a lens which is 115 mm FF equivalent.

Portraits of people sitting down were not so difficult (considerig it was the first time I used the lens:









When there was more action I started to have problems (I do not show the scenes when the people crowded in the darkness around the bar and I attempted shots with 1/30, they are not sharp but have some fun value appreciated by the paricipants.)





A week later I spend Christmas Eve with my recently widowed father (86)r. (Christmass Eve is the main event of the Christmass in our country and it is thought to be very sad to spend that evening alone.) This time I had the K-5 and even though the ilght was even worse than in the pub, I could use 1/125 and get a much sharper pictures. Amazingly the pciture taken at 10000 ISO can be magnified to a 13x18 cm in good quality. (I do not need a larger print.) He is not looking very happy - his wife (my mother) died a month ago after 60 yers of marriage.





The small size of the lens is a real advantage. I am looking forward to processing some tripod pictures taken in snow covered Prague. The only issue I have with the lens is that the slow AF takes some accustomming to.
 
Thanks for sharing these fantastic personal images.

The shots in the pub - how would they look with a change to WB?

The picture of your father is outstanding. ISO 10,000!

I find that amazing. Even a little while ago such a clean image at that ISO would have been considered impossible.

Good stuff.
 

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