Jan Welke
Member
EX25 extension or the EC Teleconverters? Also, the next best lens to the 50/2?
Thanks
Jan
Thanks
Jan
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What's better for Macro?
- Thread starter Jan Welke
- Start date
It's different.
EX will give you large magnification for cheap and won't affect IQ, but TCs will give you longer working distance which can come in handy too.
I don't know how 50mm behaves with EC20, but if it's good, I'd rather get it instead of EC14 because it's longer, and 2 stops of light less don't matter at all since when shooting at macro distances you close the aperture anyway.
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Cheers,
Marin
EX will give you large magnification for cheap and won't affect IQ, but TCs will give you longer working distance which can come in handy too.
I don't know how 50mm behaves with EC20, but if it's good, I'd rather get it instead of EC14 because it's longer, and 2 stops of light less don't matter at all since when shooting at macro distances you close the aperture anyway.
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Cheers,
Marin
Gregm61
Forum Pro
For my money, the next best lens for closeups is the 70-300 Zuiko because it can focus so close on its' own without any accessory, and the EX25 makes it just that much more versatile.
You can take your pick on the EX vs. the EC. The EX makes lenses like the 50-200 SWD and 70-300 great closeup lenses because of the wide range of focal lengths that lets you get either very close, but you can also maintain a decent working distance at the long ends. The EC20 doubles the magnification up close and really lets you compress backgrounds from a little further distance away, like these I did with the 50-200SWD+EC20..
The EX25 and 50-200 SWD, which lets you get closer than the normal minimum focus distance..
Jan Welke
Member
Thanks for the replies, I'm ordering an E5 for myself as a Christmas present from my wife, haha, but I probably won't get away with a bunch of other related toys. As I already have the 70-300, I think I'll try the EX25 for some macro dabbling.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
Jolly Oly
Leading Member
I have 50/f2 and 70-300 and IMO you just can't call a 70-300 macro. I mean you can shoot flowers with bugs on it, but not the bugs alone. Like you said, good for closeups and that's it.
Now, I would also like to know which one is better for macro work, EX-25 or EC-20, but strictly in combo with 50/f2 ?
thanks
R Neihi
Forum Enthusiast
As you say, since you have the 70-300mm, it's a good macro. And cheap.
I'm still using the "Old school E500" until I can get myself an E30 or the E5. The only problem I run into with the 70-300mm is that you need to shoot it manually to get the most magnification. I have problems with my VF trying to manually focus on the fly, so I'll use a tripod for most of my macro work or my mono-pod in the field.
BTW, I must have a great copy of the lens, but I find if I stop down to F/8-F/11 at 300mm my shots are nice and sharp. (As long as I eliminate camera shake.) I know that at least I'm getting the most out of my 8mp and I don't see why I couldn't get more out of it.
Hope this helps.
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Ryan N.
1. When in charge, ponder. 2. When in trouble, delegate. 3. When in doubt, mumble.
I'm still using the "Old school E500" until I can get myself an E30 or the E5. The only problem I run into with the 70-300mm is that you need to shoot it manually to get the most magnification. I have problems with my VF trying to manually focus on the fly, so I'll use a tripod for most of my macro work or my mono-pod in the field.
BTW, I must have a great copy of the lens, but I find if I stop down to F/8-F/11 at 300mm my shots are nice and sharp. (As long as I eliminate camera shake.) I know that at least I'm getting the most out of my 8mp and I don't see why I couldn't get more out of it.
Hope this helps.
--
Ryan N.
1. When in charge, ponder. 2. When in trouble, delegate. 3. When in doubt, mumble.
- James H. Borden (Author)
Gregm61
Forum Pro
I just picked up the 50mm f2 macro myself and plan to use it with both the EX25 and EC20 since I already have both of them. As long as a really close working distance is no problem, I would assume the EX25 is going to be best since it'll get you down to 1:1.
The EC20 will allow you more working room, so I'd guess the answer is, it depends. If you are trying to shoot live subjects where getting too physically close might cause them to run/fly away, or you cannot get physically close enough to use the 50+EX25 combination, I would opt for the EC20 with the 50mm f2.
R Neihi
Forum Enthusiast
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're shooting the 70-300mm manually it has the same magnification as the 50mm. Both are 1:2 magnification, though the 50mm just has a closer working distance. Obviously the 50mm is sharper, but they are both very capable for macro work.
Again correct me if I'm wrong...
The EX-25 increases you magnification to 1:1 but will also shorten your working distance and DoV.
The EC-20 will increase your magnification without loosing working distance. You will loose 2 stops of light.
Both my degrade image quality, so you may not want to use them on the 70-300mm unless you're not a pixel-peeper.
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Ryan N.
1. When in charge, ponder. 2. When in trouble, delegate. 3. When in doubt, mumble.
- James H. Borden (Author)
Gregm61
Forum Pro
I happen to have my E30, 50mm f2 and EX25 with me today. I had not yet tried the combination together, but just did. Boy, you have to get REALLY physically close to use that combination. The useful range is very limited. Out in the field where the distances you can work from subject to subject will often vary, this combination will be of limited use for me. The EC20 and 50mm f2 would be much more versatile. The EX25 is much more versatile used with a zoom where you can select your distance first, then zoom the lens to get there.
Gregm61
Forum Pro
Shortens working distance big-time, as I just posted about the same time you did this.
Yep. As long as f4 works, this would be a much more versatile combination.
The only one I would use/do use with my 70-300 is the EX25. With no glass added, I do not really see an EX25 degrading image quality at all. It does cut way down on depth of field though, so you have to take care and use a small enough aperture to keep a subject in complete focus from front to back. I've not yet tried the EC20 with my 50mm f2, but will this weekend.
Jolly Oly
Leading Member
You are right, but..
To achieve 1:2 with 70-300 you have to be on it's long end, full 300 mm. So (handheld) you have to have shutter speed of 1/600. Also, for macro work u need to close the aperture at least to f8-f9. I just did one test with both lenses. In my indoor conditions, iso1600 f8 I had shutter of 1/80- let's say not perfect but ok for 50/f2, but waaay too low for 70-300 on 300mm.
So, yes, they have the same magnification, but if you chase bugs like I do (handheld), 70-300 is very limited. And don't forget the 70-300 performance on 300mm vs 50/f2 performance in the same conditions, even on a tripod. This was what I meant.
Yes.
Will increase your magnification and your FL 2x.
You don't need f2 or f4 for macro anyway.
I don't know about that, don't have any of that rings.
Jolly Oly
Leading Member
Thank you for this info.
Jolly Oly
Leading Member
Can you post the results please? Thanks !
Gregm61
Forum Pro
I will. I'll respond within this post.
I just got my 50mm f/2 in last night, so not much time to work with it, but it takes the 1.4x TC beautifully and it does increase magnification somewhat, as I tested this out seeing how large I could get the "4/3" logo on the Olympus box in my viewfinder 
The 1.4x definitely gave me a larger version of the logo at MFD.
If I have time tonight I will post examples to give you an idea of the magnification results.
Personally, I like the TCs because 1) They're useful on lots of lenses and 2) you can use them with AF, unlike the tube which I think turns things to MF, right?
Of course, you could use both to go insane
--
JL Smith
http://jl-smith.smugmug.com
The 1.4x definitely gave me a larger version of the logo at MFD.If I have time tonight I will post examples to give you an idea of the magnification results.
Personally, I like the TCs because 1) They're useful on lots of lenses and 2) you can use them with AF, unlike the tube which I think turns things to MF, right?
Of course, you could use both to go insane
--
JL Smith
http://jl-smith.smugmug.com
Gregm61
Forum Pro
Autofocus remains active with the EX25 tube. What you have to work with on the tube is, the AF range is limited to the same range any focal length will work at any given distance. You have to first zoom the lens to get to the approximate working range, then the AF system will work to get you to the precise focus.
I've used my EX25 tube with the 40-150, 70-300 and both versions of the 50-200. AF works on all of them. Between 40-75mm or so on the 40-150, the working distance is so close it's hard to work with, just like using the tube with the 50mm f2 macro, but AF remains active with that lens too..
Timskis6
Veteran Member
It only has the same magnification if both lenses are shot in conditions which produce 1:2 magnification. For the 50mm f/2, this would be 50mm (obviously) and the closest focusing distance. For the 70-300mm, this would be 300mm and the closest focusing distance.
Yep.
Partially correct - it only increases magnification to 1:1 if the 50mm is at the closest focusing distance (I'm guessing you understand this). DOF is only decreased due to the close working distance. If you otherwise had a 50mm lense that could focus as close as the 50/2 + EX25, the DOF would be the same.
Additionally, you lose light with the EX25; this is not published by Olympus, nor is it taken into account with Olympus cameras. The amount of light you lose varies based on the focal length of the lense, but turns out to be minimal at longer (150mm) focal lengths. I don't recall what the exact figures are for the 50mm + EX25.
Yep.
Partially correct, but perhaps for reasons you're unaware of. The EC20 will degrade image quality because it's a 2x TC with glass in it - that's easy enough to understand, since it degrades IQ on any other lense it's attached to.
The EX25, however, doesn't have glass in it, so you would think the IQ doesn't change. For the most part, this is true. However, some lenses perform better at different focusing distances. For example, the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 is sharper at close focusing distances than it is at long focusing distances. When you add the EX25, your focusing distances become closer. So, for example, without the EX25 you might be focusing on a subject that is 1m away. With the EX25 (seemingly bringing the subject closer), your lense now focuses at a longer distance in order to keep the subject in focus. Since the lense performs worse at longer focusing distances, IQ is slightly degraded. But the degradation of IQ is strictly passive - it's a cause of using the EX25, not a cause of the EX25 itself.
However, it is safe to assume that for most lenses you will not see any difference in IQ when using the EX25.
Cheers,
--
Tim
'I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list.'
E3/7-14/12-60/35-100/150/25/EC14/EC20
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timskis6/
R Neihi
Forum Enthusiast
As for chasing bugs you're right, very right! I too have a great deal of problems with the 70-300mm w/o my mono-pod even in good light.
I guess it's the combo of my shaky hands and the mighty E500's large VF.All kidding aside, when I shoot macro, I generally have plenty of time to set up my shots with subjects that aren't moving. So in my case knowing that I could deal with the longer shutter speeds, I have no problem with the 70-300mm.
I also shoot with a 50mm manual lens (Not the 50mm f/2) and even with that one I still will bump the f/stop up to f/8 or so to get the DoV. I try to shoot at ISO100 as much as I can for macro stuff.
So I know not everyone shoots the way I do, but, I just want to let those who want to know that the 70-300mm can be a great studio macro lens. Also if you have the light (or can bump the ISO) you have great working distance for the critters.
Here 70-300mm, 300mm, 1/250 (For studio lights), f/8, ISO 100,
And 50mm manual reversed so about 1:1 magnification 1/125, f/16, ISO 100
This was shot outside (approx. sunny 16 rules) Green paper behind it.
--
Ryan N.
1. When in charge, ponder. 2. When in trouble, delegate. 3. When in doubt, mumble.
- James H. Borden (Author)
Moddemeijer
Active member
Also consider an achromatic lens of +5 or +10. You add it like a filter to your normal lens.
I just bought the Marumi DHG +5. For lets say 70 euros it must be on the market.
+5 means a focussing distance of 1000mm / +5 = 200 mm So now focussing on infinity will be reduced to 200 mm. All automatic functions of your camera are kept undisturbed. So autofocus at short distances is no problem.
There are also cheap sets of non achromatic lenses on the market. Do not use them.
I just bought the Marumi DHG +5. For lets say 70 euros it must be on the market.
+5 means a focussing distance of 1000mm / +5 = 200 mm So now focussing on infinity will be reduced to 200 mm. All automatic functions of your camera are kept undisturbed. So autofocus at short distances is no problem.
There are also cheap sets of non achromatic lenses on the market. Do not use them.
JiminDenver
Veteran Member
One of the sweetest set ups I have is the 50mm f 2 on the EC 20. This is the much desired 100 mm macro at 1-1 we have all been wanting without the wait. I went looking for my EC 20 to start taking test shots with my E 5 and sure enough, there it was sitting under the 50mm and ring flash on my 330.
I also combine the EC 20 with the 35mm for stunning 2-1 results and even the 70-300 for 1-1 with a country mile of working distance. oddly enough, while the 70-300/ EC 20 combo sucks for things like birding, it does very well in the macro side of things.
I do have and use the EX 25 but only on longer lenses, where it does quite well. I have put it on the 50mm and 35mm for test shots but thats it. The working distance of the 50mm on the EX 25 is near the same as the 35mm by it self and both are suppose to give 1-1 at closest focus. One just cost a lot more than the other.
Comparing the 50mm to the 70-300 just because they both give 1-2 magnification is simply not fair. The 50mm is one of the sharpest lenses in the line up and you see this instantly when you open the images. The extra working distance may be nice but Ive come to learn that proximity brings out the detail. Putting in the effort to get closer to your subject yields better results. (and believe me, no one gets closer than I do.)
The EX 25 does increase the magnification of the 70-300 from .5 to around .67, thats not a huge difference. About the same as using the EC 1.4.
One thing to consider is the the EC 20 can really darken a view finder. On both the 35mm and the 70-300, you have to get use to focusing at f 7 or worse. Not bad in good light but a pain in the shadows.
I'd be happy to post samples on any combo you want or you can simply search The Weekly Close Up thread I run every week in the summer. It is dormant right now because I have no bugs to shoot but you will find that it goes back for years and has every possible macro solution you could think of.
This forum has a bunch of really good macro shooters. I bet any questions will be answered with ease.
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JimB
Bug Whisperer
Member of the Colorado Olympus Group
[email protected]
I also combine the EC 20 with the 35mm for stunning 2-1 results and even the 70-300 for 1-1 with a country mile of working distance. oddly enough, while the 70-300/ EC 20 combo sucks for things like birding, it does very well in the macro side of things.
I do have and use the EX 25 but only on longer lenses, where it does quite well. I have put it on the 50mm and 35mm for test shots but thats it. The working distance of the 50mm on the EX 25 is near the same as the 35mm by it self and both are suppose to give 1-1 at closest focus. One just cost a lot more than the other.
Comparing the 50mm to the 70-300 just because they both give 1-2 magnification is simply not fair. The 50mm is one of the sharpest lenses in the line up and you see this instantly when you open the images. The extra working distance may be nice but Ive come to learn that proximity brings out the detail. Putting in the effort to get closer to your subject yields better results. (and believe me, no one gets closer than I do.)
The EX 25 does increase the magnification of the 70-300 from .5 to around .67, thats not a huge difference. About the same as using the EC 1.4.
One thing to consider is the the EC 20 can really darken a view finder. On both the 35mm and the 70-300, you have to get use to focusing at f 7 or worse. Not bad in good light but a pain in the shadows.
I'd be happy to post samples on any combo you want or you can simply search The Weekly Close Up thread I run every week in the summer. It is dormant right now because I have no bugs to shoot but you will find that it goes back for years and has every possible macro solution you could think of.
This forum has a bunch of really good macro shooters. I bet any questions will be answered with ease.
--
JimB
Bug Whisperer
Member of the Colorado Olympus Group
[email protected]
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