X1 entices me, but has Leica fixed abysmally slow MF lag in firmware yet?

I've always been a fan of compact professional cameras ala Ricoh GR series, Olympus XA, etc, and would've been a Leica user except that they did not have a pocketable compact camera along the same lines, but the day they came out with the X1, I was very close to buying one even with the over $2K price tag... the only thing that stopped me from buying one was that I wasn't sure about it's shutter release lag, so fortunately, I held back.

Just for perspective, my Ricoh GR-D had a full press shutter release lag (regardless of whether in AF or MF or "snap" mode) of around .2 seconds (less if I had the LCD display on for some reason), which is the absolute MINIMUM lag I need for street photography. My old Olympus XA was instantaneous!

So, I waited for reviews of the X1 and although I was disappointed with the AF lag, I wasn't as disappointed with that (over 1 second AF lag) as I was with the lag in MF. A camera, especially a camera with a reputation for street photography like Leica, should have NO lag when using MF. For street photography, I can gauge the distance required to get a full length portrait and either wait for my subject to get to that distance or for me to close the distance until the DOF covers the subject and the composition is correct, even without looking through the viewfinder. I often shoot like this with my Ricoh GR-D.

Well, after seeing the black Leica X1, I'm so hoping that Leica got it right and remembered their roots--street photography--or did they lose the thing that makes a Leica a Leica? Have they fixed the firmware in the X1 to get the bottom line shutter lag down to be instantaneous (or at least

Leica has only mad cosmetic changes so you can imagine it is faster if you want.
--
John
Visit my web gallery at:
http://www.barjohn.com/My Photographs/index.html
Comments and critiques welcome.

a)using spot AF on the X1 focus speed is fast
b) when i want MF- i prefocus AF then switch to MF- also very speedy

i do find the buffer when shooting raw- to be slow... but the IQ on the X1 that "superfine jpg ooc" is good enough for a 16 x 20 enlargment
--
http://www.prk60091.com

Is this the same camera company that people like Henri Cartier Bresson turned to create the perfect tool for street photography and journalism? I could care less about anything except for bottom line shutter release responsiveness and IQ. At least they got the IQ down with that AP-C sensor, but they're following the same general path of mediocrity of the Sigma DP-1 (high IQ, slow response).

Leica you are OFF track, steering into danger... about to run aground. Hard right rudder! All engines ahead FULL. Steady course f/1.2, steer nothing right of .1 seconds shutter release lag!

Thanks for the info... I'd have to compare to my Ricoh GR-D to see if it would work for me. I use hyperfocal distance settings so I don't even need to prefocus for street. Is the shutter release instantaneous or is there any discernable hesitation? I have found that it starts becoming an issue for me when lag is greater than .1 seconds. On the street, it's very different from static scenes. Compositions become apparent and then disappear fast.

I can understand that the users of Leica M9 have accepted to make some compromises. After all, it was a tour-de-force to put a FF sensor in such a small body and make use of what Leica is the master of, the M lenses. However, I find it difficult to have to make compromises for a camera that is not a Leica "legacy". The X1 is certainly stylish but for more than 2K, it should have had the best electronics and software to make a camera that focus as fast as the much cheaper japanese counterparts. I do about 90% street photography and I would not want to have a camera that can't give me the "right moment". I would certainly wait for reviews on the Fuji X100 (faster lens, OVF and EVF, ND filters (I like this feature)). It should focus very fast. The question is, is the IQ s good as the X1.

The X1 makes no sense at all for me. I need to be able to change lenses. Also Street photography is way too dangerous nowadays. You loose your camera or you get sued by your subjects if the images get online.

Yes, I agree... it's a trade off between image quality vs. speed. But why couldn't Leica have given us both? Also, I wouldn't quite assume the Fuji X100 to have instantaneous shutter release lag quite yet. That's the one thing holding me back on getting that camera. I'm also waiting for the Olympus that's supposed to come out. Full press AF lag of

I wish camera companies would just get it... we want the camera to take pictures when we press the shutter release button. That, in itself, exponentially increases user satisfaction as long as the other things aren't completely off.

Here's a trick I use... no one bothers you're shooting from the hip and talking on a cell phone (or at least think you're talking on a cell phone).

Once a camera is no longer pocketable, I may as well have a D-SLR, which I already do. The X1 is just about pocketable, and I'm willing to give up the ability to change lenses for that since I already have a D-SLR. The 36mm perspective on 35mm film is perfect for me, although I do like something between 24-28mm for street photography because I look as if I'm photographing something else when I place the subject off center.

Bottom line, X1 makes sense to me except for it's lack of responsiveness. It needs some Viagra or something.

By the way, when I say pocketable, I really mean front hip pocket of my jean pocketable so that when I go to a nightclub, I can actually move around without a bag or some kind of hip pack.

Holding off for the Fuji X100 reviews is great advice. I'd wait on the Fuji's IQ. I doubt it will cost as much as the X1.

mcshan said:

Holding off for the Fuji X100 reviews is great advice. I'd wait on the Fuji's IQ. I doubt it will cost as much as the X1.

Click to expand...

Word is $1,000... That's half the price!

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.

Here's the deal, the X100 looks nice, and while IQ will be important for average consumers, the thing that would make it enduring will be it's speed of operation, specifically, it's full press shutter lag in both AF or MF mode.

Here's what I'm concerned about with the Fuji... just like all the other Fuji cameras, in order to make the IQ better, it will have heavy-handed noise reduction that you can't fully turn off at high ISO's or RAW. They'll be so afraid of consumers who are more concerned about image quality on a per pixel basis in order to compensate for their overall quality of image (i.e., composition, content, etc). The AF speed will be average (around .4 sec for full press autofocus), but not instantaneous in MF (instantaneous being less than .1 sec).

Now, if Fuji proves me wrong I'd get it. The only thing I don't like is that it looks slightly larger than pocketable. This is why I'm eyeing that Olympus (the one that looks like an XA).

fotogenetic said:

Please tell me yes and I'm buying a black X1 YESTERDAY! ;-)

Click to expand...

I would also like to have black one, but I bought mine in july, so....

but I really love that camera and it's picture quality. I left 5dmk2 at home and took only X1 in holyday to Toscana and I was more that happy...

here my "Toscana gallery"
http://cameratuning.fi/toscana/
and same b&w
http://cameratuning.fi/toscanabw/

there are many panoramas in that gallery

e.g these stitches are made of 4 to 12 images (all no tripod)
http://cameratuning.fi/toscana/pages/stitch_025.htm
http://cameratuning.fi/toscana/pages/stitch_001.htm
http://cameratuning.fi/toscana/pages/stitch_018.htm

--
Some random photos at http://www.cameratuning.fi/random/

johtuomi

I really like the pics in your gallery. Several of them are really displaying some of the moments and impression one gets in Tuscany. However, if I can be critical, my impression is that several of them display a compress dynamic range (flat images). For example, very little difference between the sunny parts of the pictures and the ones in the shadow. This is often due to a heavy use of the Shadows/Highlights function in Photoshop.

Desmic13 said:

johtuomi

I really like the pics in your gallery. Several of them are really displaying some of the > moments and impression one gets in Tuscany. However, if I can be critical, my > impression is that several of them display a compress dynamic range (flat images). For example, very little difference between the sunny parts of the pictures and the ones in the shadow. This is often due to a heavy use of the Shadows/Highlights function in Photoshop.

Click to expand...

Thanks and yes those are little flat, I batch developed those with MBP and I should do those agian with my desktop. I also got excited of that leicas DR, it's amazing how much there are stuff in dark ares, more than in my 1dsmk3...

I think its very good for stiching, here 6 images/ 166 MB / 8 bit



--
Some random photos at http://www.cameratuning.fi/random/

Buying an X1 for what? To buy into the Leica brand at a lower price?

Would you pay $2000 for an under specced, slow, compact camera that starts to peal and lose its leather coating after 6mths. No.

I think the Fuji x100 is everything the X1 should have been, and it's probably better made to boot.

--

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevendougan/

I have to be honest, this is the first I've heard about peeling grips... that is the same reason why I stopped buying the Ricoh GR-D series. I loved the speed and the IQ... could've been better with ISO 3200 (which I need a lot for my work), but the grip just made it feel cheap and distracting when its flapping around as you take a snap.

I'm surprised a company with a reputation like Leica would produce something with quality assurance problems like that. Where is the X1 made? Are they made in Germany or China?

I tend to agree, based solely on spec. However, specs do change . . . even to the point of never being manufactured.

dougas said:

Buying an X1 for what? To buy into the Leica brand at a lower price?

Would you pay $2000 for an under specced, slow, compact camera that starts to peal and lose its leather coating after 6mths. No.

I think the Fuji x100 is everything the X1 should have been, and it's probably better made to boot.

--

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevendougan/

Click to expand...