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Why are folks trying to call everything in the world DSLR?
- Thread starter WaltKnapp
- Start date
Mike Fewster
Veteran Member
Nope Jmbo. A definition is not the same as a category and we are talking categories here. If you want to categorize your camera in terms of mechanical function, then dslr can be argued to exclude mirrorless cameras. If you categorize in terms of functions, they need to be in the same category. RAW; large sensor; interchangeable lens; viewer sees what the lens sees.
SLR was accepted for decades as covering both categorization approaches because there simply was no other mecahanism that could give its highly desirable functions. It has always been a point of confusion since digital cameras blurred the boundaries. P&S uses a function based approach to categorization and however this is obviously now also inadequate.
So we have one major category (seen by some) as based on
"mechanicals" and the other major category based on"function". The old categories and their common interpretations have become meaningless.
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Mike Fewster
Adelaide Australia
SLR was accepted for decades as covering both categorization approaches because there simply was no other mecahanism that could give its highly desirable functions. It has always been a point of confusion since digital cameras blurred the boundaries. P&S uses a function based approach to categorization and however this is obviously now also inadequate.
So we have one major category (seen by some) as based on
"mechanicals" and the other major category based on"function". The old categories and their common interpretations have become meaningless.
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Mike Fewster
Adelaide Australia
KE_DP
Veteran Member
Hi Mike, and Tom - I'm not saying no one is interested in NEX or other new camera technologies. Those who are going on about it in the DSLR forum certainly are! I might go equally crazy for an R1 replacement in 2011.
Give me that camera at 3x the resolution, blazing fast speed and super low light/low noise performance with no other lens than the one it has! I might go discuss that in the Sony Talk forum however as it would NOT be a DSLR...just another camera with advanced features to covet. At the time the R1 came out - it was also looked at and discussed by SLR and DSLR owners alike - but it was not an entire line of cameras and not given it's own forum on the boards.There are niches for all type of cameras - and of all the demographics, advanced DSLR owners might prove to be more likely to buy/own more than one camera/system due to their unique ability to afford all of them. Another big market segment being those who want simpler/cheaper than advanced DSLR cameras, with better than average quality. I wish my H5 with it's 1758 zoom had the NEX IQ and resolution.
I'm by no means saying "no discussion of anything but DSLR technology", but the whole NEX thing has gotten very tiresome - especially in a topic that had no mention of them. And also especially now that there is an entire NEX FORUM dedicated to it. I personally, would no sooner come to the Sony DSLR forum to talk about Nikon lenses than use this venue to talk about NEX. Maybe that's just me.
So let's talk about the new R1 replacement here instead, OK?
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- Karen
WaltKnapp
Forum Pro
You, yourself in the quote above tried to place DSLR as history only.
Because people keep bringing up DSLR as only being quality in the past they need reminding what's the choice of top photographers and pros. And not only for old nostalgic folks. When the reality is DSLR is right now the top camera design for photography.
And most certainly DSLR are trusted and used by all ages of photographers. Today....
Walt
tompower53
Veteran Member
We were happy when you first started posting here and talked about your R1.
OMG even posted pictures from it here.
Guess I could go back and check but think you also talked about it in comparison to your first DSLR - was that the A100 or 700? Can't remember.
Anyway to each his own version of reality - as that is the version that matters the most.
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tom power
OMG even posted pictures from it here.
Guess I could go back and check but think you also talked about it in comparison to your first DSLR - was that the A100 or 700? Can't remember.
Anyway to each his own version of reality - as that is the version that matters the most.
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tom power
C
cgarrard
Guest
What I don't get is when people reply to so called pathetic threads that they claim have no credibility and yet, defend against them by dismissing them or attacking a person personally.
That's more pathetic than anything else I've seen on these forums.
Its like saying somebody has no clue what they are talking about but they act as though they are going to trial against them.
If there's no truth in it, why then, do you care?
C
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http://www.CarlGarrardPhotography.com
http://www.AlphaMountWorld.com
That's more pathetic than anything else I've seen on these forums.
Its like saying somebody has no clue what they are talking about but they act as though they are going to trial against them.
If there's no truth in it, why then, do you care?
C
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http://www.CarlGarrardPhotography.com
http://www.AlphaMountWorld.com
C
cgarrard
Guest
lack of education followed by lack of action will be the demise of humanity, some get that, some don't.
It doesn't matter what the topic is. Ignorance is bliss but it contributes nothing to truth.
C
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http://www.CarlGarrardPhotography.com
http://www.AlphaMountWorld.com
It doesn't matter what the topic is. Ignorance is bliss but it contributes nothing to truth.
C
--
http://www.CarlGarrardPhotography.com
http://www.AlphaMountWorld.com
Where did I place DSLR in the past?
I said explicitly that today is not in question, and in the section you quoted no less.
Further in that post but outside the segment you quoted I said explicitly that I was not predicting DSLRs would be totally replaced in any foreseeable timeframe.
It seems to me you wish I were saying something you could argue with.
On that note, you have failed to respond to this request... (repeated below)
You have alleged that there is a "group of people" claiming that DSLRs won't be produced after this year. That being the case, it shouldn't be hard for you to produce some quotes from this group of people.
Where are the quotes where people have said no more DSLR cameras will be produced after this year?
Where are the quotes where people have said that the Nex will replace all DSLRs?
If in fact people aren't making such assertions, you should retract your erroneous claim.
I already said that mirrorless cameras are not DSLRs according to the literal definition.
I haven't tried to change the definition. Who exactly do you think you are arguing with?
Is it possible you are so intent on mindless bickering that you can't even be bothered to determine what the person in question is saying?
At this point I suspect that if I said "Many apples are red," you would respond by saying "Dude, the stores are full of red apples, they are all over the place!"
Do you just like to see your name next to posts?
SLRs are not necessarily DSLRs. They are different terms with different meanings. This isn't complicated.
Mike Fewster
Veteran Member
KE_DP
Veteran Member
There was a time when even DPR themselves and many board members among all brands were using "SLR-like" and "DSLR-like" as the buzz words of the day - so this mixing of terms and comparing to SLR isn't new. Read DPR's R1 review!
Those being the words of the day, left me to eventual wandering between this forum and Sony Talk concerning any "SLR-like" camera...and the R1 in particular for me being a SLR owner. Since there were no dedicated "SLR-like" forums, no R1 forum, and originally only a 1 camera Sony DSLR lineup - what better place to go to compare or learn about the differences and research future upgrades? Remember when Alan was comparing the H5 to the D200 over on STF? DSLR-like again!
On my way to D-SLR, you're right I made several stops in digital - Oly and Canon for a long time while shooting film SLRs - (Minolta but mostly Canon) waiting for digital camera technology to catch up with film at reasonable cost. Sony entered the DSLR market at about the time the value/need equation aligned for me. Having moved from others to Sony digital by that point, I preferred their DSLR UI and handing over the others, and felt the IQ and costs were very competitive. The Minolta factor was not unnoticed.
Anyway that was my "version" of reality - and mostly accurate historically to my recollections, and verifiable in the archives here. It all seems like ancient history, but that's Moore's law at work...
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Those being the words of the day, left me to eventual wandering between this forum and Sony Talk concerning any "SLR-like" camera...and the R1 in particular for me being a SLR owner. Since there were no dedicated "SLR-like" forums, no R1 forum, and originally only a 1 camera Sony DSLR lineup - what better place to go to compare or learn about the differences and research future upgrades? Remember when Alan was comparing the H5 to the D200 over on STF?
DSLR-like again!On my way to D-SLR, you're right I made several stops in digital - Oly and Canon for a long time while shooting film SLRs - (Minolta but mostly Canon) waiting for digital camera technology to catch up with film at reasonable cost. Sony entered the DSLR market at about the time the value/need equation aligned for me. Having moved from others to Sony digital by that point, I preferred their DSLR UI and handing over the others, and felt the IQ and costs were very competitive. The Minolta factor was not unnoticed.
Anyway that was my "version" of reality - and mostly accurate historically to my recollections, and verifiable in the archives here. It all seems like ancient history, but that's Moore's law at work...
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- Karen
tbcass
Forum Pro
Let it go jimb100. My feud with you is done.
You obviously have something against me because I was supporting your opinion yet you still find need to criticize. The best thing to do would be to ignore my post which was meant to clarify the difference between DSLR's and other cameras and why the term should not be used for other types of cameras. My post was not meant as a definition but as a description of the technical differences and why cameras like the NEX should not be referred to as such, at least in my opinion. It simply causes confusion. It goes WAY beyond simple definitions and simplistic arguments which this thread has degenerated to.
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Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
tbcass
Forum Pro
I believe I alluded to that by saying SLR's and now DSLR's but the description I gave was pertinent to both. I made no mention of film, sensors and the differences in circuitry since they weren't important to my explanation and the reason why some of us prefer the SLR/DSLR design. Take away the sensor/film and electronics and they are essentially the same and at the same time different from non SLR cameras.
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Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
They certainly share similarities. My point is that while they are similar in most respects they are different and the two terms really can't be used interchangeably.
Is it nit-picky? Sure, but that is what this whole thread seems to be about.
You can't start a thread criticizing people for not adhering to the literal definition of DSLR and then in that same thread fail to adhere to the literal definition.
If a camera with only the DSL part of DSLR shouldn't be called a DSLR, then a camera with only the SLR part of DSLR shouldn't be called a DSLR either.
tbcass
Forum Pro
I am fully aware of the distinction between SLR and DSLR and have never attempted to use the term interchangeably or suggested that anybody should. Saying that SLR's and DSLR's have things in common is no different than saying the NEX and a DSLR have things in common (APS-C sensor and lens interchangeability). The two nomenclatures are not interchangeable however. A DSLR is not a NEX and a NEX is not a DSLR.
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Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/
M
Marti58
Guest
that this forum is back to his normal behavior .... after the NEX period.
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All my Post Processing is done with Capture NX2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marti58/
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All my Post Processing is done with Capture NX2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marti58/
tompower53
Veteran Member
are not asking for the change of the DSLR camera - they don't want a DSLR camera. They just want something easy to use and carry around that still gives them good pictures under most circumstances. Better than what they can get from a traditional P&S.
They have no interest in learning all the in and outs of DSLR advanced photography or carrying around a 15lb backpack with kit.
The NEX is not an attack on DSLRs - you look at it as if it is - it just isn't.
The NEX is something different and you are flat out wrong in comparing your Minox to the NEX. That is just a ridiculous comparison and makes any of your other arguments less credible as people can see you are just making non credible arguments. Try to at least stay in the fruit family and not compare apples to ice cream.
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tom power
They have no interest in learning all the in and outs of DSLR advanced photography or carrying around a 15lb backpack with kit.
The NEX is not an attack on DSLRs - you look at it as if it is - it just isn't.
The NEX is something different and you are flat out wrong in comparing your Minox to the NEX. That is just a ridiculous comparison and makes any of your other arguments less credible as people can see you are just making non credible arguments. Try to at least stay in the fruit family and not compare apples to ice cream.
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tom power
tompower53
Veteran Member
That you are making the argument that the forums should be not completly specialized - stop it - that my argument! No fair.
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tom power
No fair. --
tom power
tompower53
Veteran Member
that is true - what it can contribute to is short term happiness - maybe at times this is not such a bad thing. Yes long term maybe not a good plan but I have to admit I have seen some very blissful happy people whose ignorance did not seem to hurt them much. A little more blissful ignorance might be just what I need. Really - not sarcasm.
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tom power
Yes long term maybe not a good plan but I have to admit I have seen some very blissful happy people whose ignorance did not seem to hurt them much. A little more blissful ignorance might be just what I need. Really - not sarcasm.It doesn't matter what the topic is. Ignorance is bliss but it contributes nothing to truth.
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tom power
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