This Camera (Pro 14n) ROCKS!

Erika said:

My plea would be settle us down with an automates workflow solution
and a camera we can use for at least 3 years without tossing!
Philip K wrote:

Click to expand...

Well the 14N is likely not your camera then - maybe.

The weakest link in this model are the Nikon components. However, to get a camera of this classification at this type of price – I think it is a price worth paying, but I am not buying longevity with this machine.

I think it is a disposable in two to three years as a professional camera. By then this class of machine will probably be in a fully professional body meeting a very wide gamut of professional requirements and at a similar price point.

I also see it as having a two-year lead on its rivals with the implementation of its various technologies. I see this as an out and out advantage commercially and an opportunity not to be missed in the business world.

Hi Gerard
do you have a split personality . . . . or are there several Gerards?

I quite agree with you that there will be better cameras within the next year or so, but it seems to me that assuming the image quality is okay, then the resolution and the fact that this is full frame means that it will continue to produce 'good enough' photos as long as you like.

Clearly there will be similar cameras with better focusing systems, faster, and with larger buffers which will be desirable for anyone doing sport or photojournalism.

To my mind all the current dslr's are compromised by lack of definition for landscapes and group shots, and by the damned magnification factor.

Roll on the Kodak!

kind regards
jono slack

Gerard. said:

Ger Bee said:

My plea would be settle us down with an automates workflow solution
and a camera we can use for at least 3 years without tossing!
Philip K wrote:

Click to expand...

Well the 14N is likely not your camera then - maybe.

The weakest link in this model are the Nikon components. However,
to get a camera of this classification at this type of price – I
think it is a price worth paying, but I am not buying longevity
with this machine.

I think it is a disposable in two to three years as a professional
camera. By then this class of machine will probably be in a fully
professional body meeting a very wide gamut of professional
requirements and at a similar price point.

I also see it as having a two-year lead on its rivals with the
implementation of its various technologies. I see this as an out
and out advantage commercially and an opportunity not to be missed
in the business world.

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

I have to laugh when I read your post. No insult intended but just because it shows how different the needs of various "pros" can be.

I spent a number of years as a commercial photographer and moved into stock photography about 10 years ago. When I was doing commercial work, 35mm wasn't even considered a "pro" format by my clients and I only used it when shooting for A/V. So obviously my perspective is completely opposite. Being used to the larger formats, Hi-Rez is everything and autofocus/autoexposure is not such a big deal to me.

I use the F80 all the time now and I feel it is so much better than my old F2's and F3's. Don't get me wrong, if I was in a different type of photography, I might feel an F5 is necessary.
But in my case I have no problems with the 14n using F80 parts.

I also had the opportunity to try a Kodak 760 recently and I was put off by the massive size...this from a guy who used to lug 4x5's and 8x10's around.

Rick

Erika said:

I don't know butmaybe i've missed something. I sort of think that i
read quite allot of threads here and on other sites, but why does
everyone seem to make so much fuss about resolution? Yes, I am a
pro and I do know what the word means. But i've owned almost all
major model of 35mm camera including (of recent) The Nikon's
N65,N80 , F100 and F5 . I also owned the canon's of the world EOS 3
and EOS 1. I sold whatever I found not to be up to par. I find that
autofocus speed as well as accurate exposure (camera and
flash-especailly 'fill-flash") is the real clincher! I think a
camera that let's you get on with life and make spot on images each
time just relying on you for composition and correct settings is
what any photographer should be looking for. What's the use of
carrying around a N80 type body and having that camera "get your
gall" while hunting for accurate focus.

Click to expand...

95% of all my photography is done (weddings and events) using a Bronica SQai and when I do use my F5 I find it an utter joy. Since wedding photography entails making picture's of large groups I feel medium format is the only practical way to go (meanwhile) 35mm doesn't cut it (for enlargements) neither does my D1x! I love the size of my F5 and i would love to be able to have a digital camera that replaces my Bronica and acts like my F5!!!! The reason why your medium -large format feels less 'klutzy" then your 760 is shape and ergonomics (even more then the weight factor). My dream was to have a one camera system that cover's all my needs. My dream was that digital would do just that. but it doesn't cover all bases yet. Try an F5 on your next job and then let me know what you think . By the way I use my digital system to take picture's of landscapes and incorperate them as backgrounds for my combinations (used for the master albums). So that's why I need a good resolution too, not just for groups. I used to live in Europe and I found that weddings were mostly photographed using 35mm (at that time I owned a Contax 6008 for my in studio portrait photography.) I do agree that amatuer photographer's would also need a simplier work flow solution for their needs that actually turns out nce real looking rints. Yes i have the Epson 785 EPX with the built in card reader, and no it doesn't "cut" it.

Rick Boden said:

Rick

Erika said:

I don't know butmaybe i've missed something. I sort of think that i
read quite allot of threads here and on other sites, but why does
everyone seem to make so much fuss about resolution? Yes, I am a
pro and I do know what the word means. But i've owned almost all
major model of 35mm camera including (of recent) The Nikon's
N65,N80 , F100 and F5 . I also owned the canon's of the world EOS 3
and EOS 1. I sold whatever I found not to be up to par. I find that
autofocus speed as well as accurate exposure (camera and
flash-especailly 'fill-flash") is the real clincher! I think a
camera that let's you get on with life and make spot on images each
time just relying on you for composition and correct settings is
what any photographer should be looking for. What's the use of
carrying around a N80 type body and having that camera "get your
gall" while hunting for accurate focus.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Erika Lemberger

I sold my N80 on ebay 6 months ago. But i have been using my F5 since it first became available. I admire the fact that my Bronica has been around for as long as it's been and although i'd love to see autofocus on it (since i am pretty sure the autofocus would never be as good as an EOS or F5) I'd rather continue using it this way. But owning such a camera which is capable of great picture's and knowing this is it for who know's how long is very comforting as an investment. That mean's i can concentrate on earning and not be unhappy why it's not yet up to par and when will I have to reinvest on a product that I can only "hope" will be the next time around!

I am all for digital.It's just that I have lost my enthusiasm as it causes more problems then it solves meanwhile! By the way talking about Nikon components.............I wouldn't belittle them if I were you the F5 is great in every way and strong. The only gripe i have with them is that the body rubber tends to peel off on all their camera's. Possibly an adhesive problem due to the fact that the repair personal have to peel it off in order to get at the body screws. I also wish it would have auto end rewind. But that's it! Don't think for a minute that Canon builds better. Been there, done that and they don't!

Gerard. said:

Ger Bee said:

My plea would be settle us down with an automates workflow solution
and a camera we can use for at least 3 years without tossing!
Philip K wrote:

Click to expand...

Well the 14N is likely not your camera then - maybe.

The weakest link in this model are the Nikon components. However,
to get a camera of this classification at this type of price – I
think it is a price worth paying, but I am not buying longevity
with this machine.

I think it is a disposable in two to three years as a professional
camera. By then this class of machine will probably be in a fully
professional body meeting a very wide gamut of professional
requirements and at a similar price point.

I also see it as having a two-year lead on its rivals with the
implementation of its various technologies. I see this as an out
and out advantage commercially and an opportunity not to be missed
in the business world.

Click to expand...

--
Erika Lemberger

Erika,

Have you tried an F100? It's lighter than the F5, very sturdy (much more substantial than the N80), and the rubber seems to stay on! I have both and prefer the F100 not only for its lighter weight, but because the controls are easier to use. I don't use alternate viewfinders, so the only downside compared to the F5 is that it does not have the 1005 point RGB exposure system (although I've noticed little difference). You can add a battery grip to the F100 if you miss the F5's bulk.

JC

Erika said:

I sold my N80 on ebay 6 months ago. But i have been using my F5
since it first became available. I admire the fact that my Bronica
has been around for as long as it's been and although i'd love to
see autofocus on it (since i am pretty sure the autofocus would
never be as good as an EOS or F5) I'd rather continue using it this
way. But owning such a camera which is capable of great picture's
and knowing this is it for who know's how long is very comforting
as an investment. That mean's i can concentrate on earning and not
be unhappy why it's not yet up to par and when will I have to
reinvest on a product that I can only "hope" will be the next time
around!
I am all for digital.It's just that I have lost my enthusiasm as it
causes more problems then it solves meanwhile! By the way talking
about Nikon components.............I wouldn't belittle them if I
were you the F5 is great in every way and strong. The only gripe i
have with them is that the body rubber tends to peel off on all
their camera's. Possibly an adhesive problem due to the fact that
the repair personal have to peel it off in order to get at the body
screws. I also wish it would have auto end rewind. But that's it!
Don't think for a minute that Canon builds better. Been there, done
that and they don't!

Click to expand...

Hi Erika

Well I'm 'mostly' amateur, and as such I've never seriously used medium format. Currently I use a D1X, which is great until it comes to large groups and landscapes, where the resolution doesn't cut it, and wide angle, where the magnification factor sucks.

I love the fast autofocus and the handling, although I could do with a little less weight.

For me, and, I'm sure, many like me, the 14n sounds like a gift from heaven - sure, I'll have to deal with slightly inferior autofocus, and less speed, but for most purposes it should provide almost the resolution of medium format, with most of the convenience of the D1X, in a smaller, but still tough package.

As for workflow - I've long since realised that every digital photo needs work doing to it, and that they aren't all the same, but it's much less painful than looking at processed shots with incorrect colour, poor cropping etc. etc. and the sinking feeling that goes with the knowledge that it'll all have to be paid for again.

I understand your position, but I'm sure that there are many like me, both serious amateurs and professionals who will feel the same way and welcome this camera, even if it doesn't cover all the bases.

kind regards
jono slack

Erika said:

Rick Boden said:

Rick

Erika said:

I don't know butmaybe i've missed something. I sort of think that i
read quite allot of threads here and on other sites, but why does
everyone seem to make so much fuss about resolution? Yes, I am a
pro and I do know what the word means. But i've owned almost all
major model of 35mm camera including (of recent) The Nikon's
N65,N80 , F100 and F5 . I also owned the canon's of the world EOS 3
and EOS 1. I sold whatever I found not to be up to par. I find that
autofocus speed as well as accurate exposure (camera and
flash-especailly 'fill-flash") is the real clincher! I think a
camera that let's you get on with life and make spot on images each
time just relying on you for composition and correct settings is
what any photographer should be looking for. What's the use of
carrying around a N80 type body and having that camera "get your
gall" while hunting for accurate focus.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Erika Lemberger

Click to expand...

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

because of the high cost of Canon's 1Ds i was
looking at this model but there are a few
deficiencies.
(1) it's not professionally sealed - dust is a major
issue with dSLR's.
(2) slow sync speed - difficulty shooting wide apatures outdoors
(3) white autofocus assist - the white beam can be annoying
(4) no on screen focus confirmation - it's just good to have

Member said:

(1) it's not professionally sealed - dust is a major
issue with dSLR's.

Click to expand...

None are BTW. This is CMOS so is much less prone to dust.

Member said:

(2) slow sync speed - difficulty shooting wide apatures outdoors

Click to expand...

Yes - this is a consideration.

Member said:

(3) white autofocus assist - the white beam can be annoying

Click to expand...

This can be turned off - unless Kodak interfere with it and do not allow the choice.

Member said:

(4) no on screen focus confirmation - it's just good to have

Click to expand...

What? Well there is and a few to choose from - again unless Kodak interfer and remove them.

My comments are in relation to the D100 which I own. Kodak may or may not offer the same feature set - this remains to be seen.

--
A new me ................. ))

Gerard,

I find, in reading much of this, is that a lot of people have become attached to a particular film camera. Perhaps this is due to a relatively long life for a particular pro camera. Like any good tool, once you master it, perfection is possible.

At any rate, the math, especially as a business expense, favors wearing out a $4000 digital camera of lesser build vs a longer lived $7000 one. This follows, to a certain extent the computer buying model of 2-3 years, then relative obsolescence.

That being the case, I personally would rather purchase a higher quality lens with the difference, knowing that lenses do have a long life, and ready myself for the inevitable camera replacements just around the bend.

While I am an eager amateur, I can definitely see a higher level of stress professionals must deal with, due to higher expectations by clients, rapidly changing workflow, and decreased turnaround times.

tom

Member said:

(1) it's not professionally sealed - dust is a major
issue with dSLR's.

Click to expand...

You could put on your favorite lens and then run a bead of silicone seal where the lens meets the camera. That should keep any dust off the CCD.

Incidentally, where did you get the information that it was not professionally sealed? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wanted to see that information as well.

Rick

I'll bet it does. I'd love to see some sample images!

Is there any chance the flash sync speed can be improved upon? I hardly qualify 1/125 sec as a pro-level camera spec for Wedding shoots -- especially with a $4000 price tag. We need to get that sync speed UP for outdoor shooting as well!

Any thoughts?

Thom

Jay Kelbley said:

OK...
-So I am one of a handful of people who have had the opportunity to
shoot it against most of the other cameras in the industry..

OK...
-So I also hang out with the guys who make the camera...

It rocks!
(I have to say it again..)

We just finished up a shoot with our photographer ("Ralf") at the
booth at Photokina...
The detail is amazing!!!!

We just sent the files out (again) to be printed as mural prints
for the show tomorrow...

-Jay

--
Jay Kelbley
-Eastman Kodak Company
[email protected]

Click to expand...

............. the flash is fantastic.

And at ISO 80 the flash sync will not be as big a problem as it seems - faster is better - and on my D100 I have run up against this slow sync and turned to my D1x - so I cannot say it is not a problem but ---

Provided Kodak, and this camera is a Kodak, but provided Kodak have not changed anything significantly – the flash with the SB80DX will be magnificent.

Typically on the D100 the flash under exposed about ½ ~ 2/3 stop – the camera’s compensation can be used to correct this. As can the factory setting be changed to give a more powerful yield – Kodak should have control over that.

Other external flashes may have a harder time with the slower sync speed – it is likely that 1/250 sec will be the normal max – or as on the D1x – a manual high speed sync to 1/4000 sec – a neat trick but one that the N80 does not carry and I don’t suspect Kodak could add.

Thomas Karlmann said:

I'll bet it does. I'd love to see some sample images!

Is there any chance the flash sync speed can be improved upon? I
hardly qualify 1/125 sec as a pro-level camera spec for Wedding
shoots -- especially with a $4000 price tag. We need to get that
sync speed UP for outdoor shooting as well!

Any thoughts?

Thom

Click to expand...

Rick Boden said:

Rick Boden said:

(1) it's not professionally sealed - dust is a major
issue with dSLR's.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

This is complete cow dung..

Question:
Where does the dust come from, in a remove-able lense SLR?

Answer:
The big hole where the remove-albe lense goes...

Relative to dust, the lense mount (aka "the big hole") on a Nikon camera is pretty much the same size as the hole on a Canon mount camera..
The dust that could get on the sensor comes 100% through "the big hole"...

-Jay

--
Jay Kelbley
-Eastman Kodak Company
[email protected]

The DTTL flash termination "Rocks" on this camera!

The SB80DX (and the SB50DX for that matter) work GREAT with the Pro 14n...

-Jay

--
Jay Kelbley
-Eastman Kodak Company
[email protected]

Where would I stand with my Metz 45c?
Robert

Granted 125 synch could be limiting.

However I have managed with an old Pentax 6x7 for several years. Try getting by with 1/30 synch.

Each of these new camera's have their strong points and their shortcomings. each "photographer" needs to decide what trade off best suits him/her. or whether to settle for whats current or wait another generation or two. that being 6 months or a year?
I managed for 5 years with an "old" kodak DCS 460.
The only preview was if I was tethered to a computer.
All these new camera's "rock" which one is gonna rock your world??

For me the "jury" is still out. for sure one of the current crop. when the hit the market and are well reviewed by non biased photographers...and even by a few biased ones.
Matt

Jay -- I think we get the message, with the 'rocks' terminology. However, we photographers have our own terminology -- it's called 'maximum sync speed', and 'oudoor fill flash'.

Unless those Nikon flash units you mentioned are able to allow the camera's shutter speed to be higher... do they? What is max sync speed with the Nikon flash units? If it's still back to 1/125 for outdoor shots, then no, this does not 'rock'! Cameras had higher sync speeds than this 20 years ago! My little Minolta Dimage7 can sync all the way to 1/2000 sec-- without the reduced output type flash.

Thom

Jay Kelbley said:

The DTTL flash termination "Rocks" on this camera!

The SB80DX (and the SB50DX for that matter) work GREAT with the Pro
14n...

-Jay

--
Jay Kelbley
-Eastman Kodak Company
[email protected]

Click to expand...

Thomas Karlmann said:

Is there any chance the flash sync speed can be improved upon? I
hardly qualify 1/125 sec as a pro-level camera spec for Wedding
shoots -- especially with a $4000 price tag. We need to get that
sync speed UP for outdoor shooting as well!

Any thoughts?

Thom

Click to expand...

I don't know, my old Nikon F3 had a 1/90 flash sync, and I don't recall missing all that many shots, even outdoors, and at the time it was as good a "Pro" camera as there was.

I though all you "Pro" wedding photographers shot 2-1/4"s with leaf shutters anyway.

Larry

Jay Kelbley said:

This is complete cow dung..
Question: Where does the dust come from, in a remove-able lense SLR?
Answer: The big hole where the remove-albe lense goes...

Click to expand...

The sealing issue also comes into play during moist weather
(sports) or dust at the beach that finds itself pretty much
everywhere.