I Don't Care What Features Sony Leaves Out of Cameras - And Why Should You?

The A5xx series does not in any way resemble an A100 and I'm willing to bet that there will be some real whining gone wild from the A700 Believers when the A7xx is released.

The A100 and A700 were Minolta carry-overs and I can't see Sony making that mistake again. It's been a loosing proposition twice already.
Do you have any actual sales numbers to back that up? Seems to be an awful lot of a100s and a700s around. So, what were Sony's in company goals for these cameras, and how close did they come to meeting them? And compare that to all Sony's other models while you are at it.
I have the same sales data you do and that never slowed you down. The only difference is the fact (a rarity here) that Sony quit making both with no replacement. So, whatever their goals were - fail.
In your opinion they never replaced the A100. I agree they never correctly replaced the A100 - that would be the A5XX plus the missing features from the A100.

The jury is still out on the A700 until we see the A7XX.
Or any actual detailed info on the future Sony DSLRs, just for the next ten years will be ok if you don't have it.
I can't even figure out where this came from. Because I think you and the 'others' are going to hate the A7xx? A wager?
Why do you say that? Do you believe they will be stripping features there too?
--
Rick
The A5xx is way more camera than the 100.

I think the A7xx will be a Sony with modern features added and those Sony thinks are no longer necessary left off. I have nothing to back this up (nor am I saying it's good or bad) other than what I consider common sense. If what I envision is true, the believers will not be happy. - TF
 
There is no use crying over and over again on the same issue. I can't seem to remember yet one perfect camera for everybody. I tested last year the A900, A850, A550, Sony 70-400mm, Canon 7D, Canon 70-300mm IS, rented Canon 100-400 IS, etc. There were some areas I was not satisfied with in relation to the subject and shooting style that I do. I returned them all and continued exploiting what I have. I posted most of my findings and then I move on.

Currently happily testing a number of MF lenses.
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.
 
Make all the crippled newby cameras you want and let the p&s crowd rave about face detection and fast live view, but you don't have a camera line if you don't have anything with full features.
Is it possible for you to make a point with insulting others?

You had a pretty good post going until this paragraph.
 
the lack of MLU :).
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.
 
The A5xx series does not in any way resemble an A100 and I'm willing to bet that there will be some real whining gone wild from the A700 Believers when the A7xx is released.

The A100 and A700 were Minolta carry-overs and I can't see Sony making that mistake again. It's been a loosing proposition twice already.
Do you have any actual sales numbers to back that up? Seems to be an awful lot of a100s and a700s around. So, what were Sony's in company goals for these cameras, and how close did they come to meeting them? And compare that to all Sony's other models while you are at it.
I have the same sales data you do and that never slowed you down. The only difference is the fact (a rarity here) that Sony quit making both with no replacement. So, whatever their goals were - fail.
In your opinion they never replaced the A100. I agree they never correctly replaced the A100 - that would be the A5XX plus the missing features from the A100.

The jury is still out on the A700 until we see the A7XX.
Or any actual detailed info on the future Sony DSLRs, just for the next ten years will be ok if you don't have it.
I can't even figure out where this came from. Because I think you and the 'others' are going to hate the A7xx? A wager?
Why do you say that? Do you believe they will be stripping features there too?
--
Rick
The A5xx is way more camera than the 100.
As well it should be since it is 4 years newer. Regardless it still occupies the same position in the lineup IMO.
I think the A7xx will be a Sony with modern features added and those Sony thinks are no longer necessary left off. I have nothing to back this up (nor am I saying it's good or bad) other than what I consider common sense. If what I envision is true, the believers will not be happy. - TF
And what exactly is a "believer"? Someone who feels that Sony can and should make cameras with traditional and cutting-edge features?

--
Rick
 
So, according to you there is no consensus on what a camera for advanced amateurs and up should look like?

You don't need to ask me, ask any of the thousands buying Nikon and Canon dslrs above entry level.

Was that even a serious comment you made or was it just sort of needing to reply when no good reply came to mind.
Got it. I'll be sure to ask you what's appropriate for ALL serious amateurs, ALL semi-pros and ALL pros from now on. That kind of insight is invaluable. Heck, I didn't think it even existed.
 
First off, why would you consider that a rant? This is a photography forum, Sony dslrs in particular. We are here to discuss.

Or is that just a debating point for you? Anything you don't agree with is a rant? Is that some new form of strawman I'm not aware of?

Perhaps you need to slow down and make it a discussion, a rational one. Rather than accuse me of ranting, perhaps you could actually address some of the points I made, if you disagree.

You see, you've take my discussion of Sony's product lineup and made a personal attack on me.

I think that's fanboy behavior and bad form.

Why not try addressing the points I made and discussing the merits.

Or are you not able?
Why do I need to sell all my equipment?
So that you can stop ranting on something you don't like. Bad for blood pressure.
Can't I just not buy any of their new offerings?
Yes you can and since you've done your rant, try to enjoy photography for a moment assuming you can still use what you have.
Or does my comment offend your sense of loyalty to the Sony brand?
I use what I can use with or w/o the missing features you've mentioned. I am from the old school of just using the basics. I might get lost on those features that you've mentioned that are lacking. It is easy to blame the gears or the lack of features for photographic deficiencies. The gears does not control my photographic enjoyment and thus, I could opt for anything within my means. I don't whine much, only a little bit and having said it once or twice, I move on and exploit what I have. Loyalty to any brand is bull. Loyalty must reside in one's enjoyment. If you are happy ranting those things, so be it and enjoy what you are doing.
cheers,
gil
offering. Sell your gears and move on.
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.
 
The A5xx series does not in any way resemble an A100 and I'm willing to bet that there will be some real whining gone wild from the A700 Believers when the A7xx is released.

The A100 and A700 were Minolta carry-overs and I can't see Sony making that mistake again. It's been a loosing proposition twice already.
Do you have any actual sales numbers to back that up? Seems to be an awful lot of a100s and a700s around. So, what were Sony's in company goals for these cameras, and how close did they come to meeting them? And compare that to all Sony's other models while you are at it.
I have the same sales data you do and that never slowed you down. The only difference is the fact (a rarity here) that Sony quit making both with no replacement. So, whatever their goals were - fail.
In your opinion they never replaced the A100. I agree they never correctly replaced the A100 - that would be the A5XX plus the missing features from the A100.

The jury is still out on the A700 until we see the A7XX.
Or any actual detailed info on the future Sony DSLRs, just for the next ten years will be ok if you don't have it.
I can't even figure out where this came from. Because I think you and the 'others' are going to hate the A7xx? A wager?
Why do you say that? Do you believe they will be stripping features there too?
--
Rick
The A5xx is way more camera than the 100.
As well it should be since it is 4 years newer. Regardless it still occupies the same position in the lineup IMO.
I think the A7xx will be a Sony with modern features added and those Sony thinks are no longer necessary left off. I have nothing to back this up (nor am I saying it's good or bad) other than what I consider common sense. If what I envision is true, the believers will not be happy. - TF
And what exactly is a "believer"? Someone who feels that Sony can and should make cameras with traditional and cutting-edge features?

--
Rick
Their biggest characteristic, I think, is that they believe nothing will ever surpass the A700 as a basic camera. Nothing new will ever be invented that will improve upon the traditional features of this camera. For instance, no matter how good an EVF becomes, it should never take the place of (or even restrict) the OVF. They seem to be very much stuck on the mechanical systems of the last century. OK? - TF
 
Rehashing the same old discussion that has been going on for the last 12 months?

Cannot think of any new material to complain about?

The rules of the forum are pretty clear about continuing with the same tired old bashing. The point has been made over and over and over already. We get it.
 
First off, why would you consider that a rant? This is a photography forum, Sony dslrs in particular. We are here to discuss.

Or is that just a debating point for you? Anything you don't agree with is a rant? Is that some new form of strawman I'm not aware of?

Perhaps you need to slow down and make it a discussion, a rational one. Rather than accuse me of ranting, perhaps you could actually address some of the points I made, if you disagree.

You see, you've take my discussion of Sony's product lineup and made a personal attack on me.

I think that's fanboy behavior and bad form.

Why not try addressing the points I made and discussing the merits.

Or are you not able?
Why do I need to sell all my equipment?
So that you can stop ranting on something you don't like. Bad for blood pressure.
Can't I just not buy any of their new offerings?
Yes you can and since you've done your rant, try to enjoy photography for a moment assuming you can still use what you have.
Or does my comment offend your sense of loyalty to the Sony brand?
I use what I can use with or w/o the missing features you've mentioned. I am from the old school of just using the basics. I might get lost on those features that you've mentioned that are lacking. It is easy to blame the gears or the lack of features for photographic deficiencies. The gears does not control my photographic enjoyment and thus, I could opt for anything within my means. I don't whine much, only a little bit and having said it once or twice, I move on and exploit what I have. Loyalty to any brand is bull. Loyalty must reside in one's enjoyment. If you are happy ranting those things, so be it and enjoy what you are doing.
cheers,
gil
offering. Sell your gears and move on.
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.
Rant over? - TF
 
If the shoe fits wear it.

Again, hurt feelings aside, what part of what I wrote is untrue?

Lets analyze the paragraph.

"Make all the crippled newby cameras you want" - and Sony has made a bunch of them and most reviewers have assailed them for missing features. I wasn't the first to call them crippled, that's for sure.

"Let the p&s crowd rave about face detection detection" - most newbys come from the p&s cameras and they do rave about face detion and fast live view. They don't care about MLU, DOF preview, big viewfinders, etc. Sorry, but beyond taking snapshots, those things are necessary for advanced photography. Of course, you can say that's just my opinion, but you would be wrong.

Now let me make sure I've made this clear - if you just bought your first dslr, a Sony with a number below 700 and above 500, you bought the most advanced p&s camera on the planet. Bravo, good for you.

But you didn't buy the best tool available for going beyond snapshots. The missing features will limit your ability to explore advanced areas of photography.

Of course we can always make this a forum where we all simply tell each other how wonderful Sony is and how everything they do is grand and how smart we all are for buying Sony products.

But when it gets to that point, there will only be about 10 posters left and even they will eventually get tired and bored.
Make all the crippled newby cameras you want and let the p&s crowd rave about face detection and fast live view, but you don't have a camera line if you don't have anything with full features.
Is it possible for you to make a point with insulting others?

You had a pretty good post going until this paragraph.
 
The A5xx series does not in any way resemble an A100 and I'm willing to bet that there will be some real whining gone wild from the A700 Believers when the A7xx is released.

The A100 and A700 were Minolta carry-overs and I can't see Sony making that mistake again. It's been a loosing proposition twice already.
Do you have any actual sales numbers to back that up? Seems to be an awful lot of a100s and a700s around. So, what were Sony's in company goals for these cameras, and how close did they come to meeting them? And compare that to all Sony's other models while you are at it.
I have the same sales data you do and that never slowed you down. The only difference is the fact (a rarity here) that Sony quit making both with no replacement. So, whatever their goals were - fail.
In your opinion they never replaced the A100. I agree they never correctly replaced the A100 - that would be the A5XX plus the missing features from the A100.

The jury is still out on the A700 until we see the A7XX.
Or any actual detailed info on the future Sony DSLRs, just for the next ten years will be ok if you don't have it.
I can't even figure out where this came from. Because I think you and the 'others' are going to hate the A7xx? A wager?
Why do you say that? Do you believe they will be stripping features there too?
--
Rick
The A5xx is way more camera than the 100.
As well it should be since it is 4 years newer. Regardless it still occupies the same position in the lineup IMO.
I think the A7xx will be a Sony with modern features added and those Sony thinks are no longer necessary left off. I have nothing to back this up (nor am I saying it's good or bad) other than what I consider common sense. If what I envision is true, the believers will not be happy. - TF
And what exactly is a "believer"? Someone who feels that Sony can and should make cameras with traditional and cutting-edge features?

--
Rick
Their biggest characteristic, I think, is that they believe nothing will ever surpass the A700 as a basic camera. Nothing new will ever be invented that will improve upon the traditional features of this camera. For instance, no matter how good an EVF becomes, it should never take the place of (or even restrict) the OVF. They seem to be very much stuck on the mechanical systems of the last century. OK? - TF
And just how did you gain this insight into what advanced amateurs think or believe?

Who embraced autofocus, metering and the dslr. Who embraced 35mm, leaving 2 1/4 square and larger? Not newbies getting into the hobby with their first camera, that's for sure.

The point you miss is that advanced amateurs and up will embrace any technology that makes it easier to take better pictures.
 
Rehashing the same old discussion that has been going on for the last 12 months?

Cannot think of any new material to complain about?

The rules of the forum are pretty clear about continuing with the same tired old bashing. The point has been made over and over and over already. We get it.
Then why don't you just move along, or press the ignore button?

Why do you feel compelled to participate in a thread you obviously want no part of?

Do you just want to complain?
 
And what exactly is a "believer"? Someone who feels that Sony can and should make cameras with traditional and cutting-edge features?
Their biggest characteristic, I think, is that they believe nothing will ever surpass the A700 as a basic camera. Nothing new will ever be invented that will improve upon the traditional features of this camera. For instance, no matter how good an EVF becomes, it should never take the place of (or even restrict) the OVF. They seem to be very much stuck on the mechanical systems of the last century. OK? - TF
Another question if I may. What do you think the response on this forum would be to a camera which had everything the A700 has (OVF, MLU, DOF preview, etc) and added main sensor LV, more fps, video with fast AF and metering, HDR and some other goodies I can't think of?

--
Rick
 
Of course there isn't a consensus, otherwise we'd all have the same camera.

Look, I'm not interested in a "run to the margins" thread with you. In my opinion, your attitude is based on arrogance and that isn't conducive to a good discussion.
 
I believe the a5xx series replaced the a300 & a350 they have all the same features plus added ones as well as far better ISO performance and better LCDs.

I hate to say it but the a550 that replaced my a350 has better ISO performance than my a700 with v4. So I hope and would think that if or when the replacement for the a700 comes out it will have the same or better ISO performance.
Gene
 
I believe the a5xx series replaced the a300 & a350 they have all the same features plus added ones as well as far better ISO performance and better LCDs.
Answering only for myself of course...

I agree that the a5xx series is a natural upgrade from an A3XX camera but it is not a replacement IMO. For APS-C Sony cameras the A2XX/A3XX are the entry-level, the A5xx are the mid-range and the A7XX are the high-end. The A100 was a mid-range camera when it was introduced since it was a derivative of the mid-range KM 5D. So to me the natural successor or replacement of the A100 is the A5XX cameras.
I hate to say it but the a550 that replaced my a350 has better ISO performance than my a700 with v4. So I hope and would think that if or when the replacement for the a700 comes out it will have the same or better ISO performance.
Gene
I certainly expect the A7XX to share in the advanced introduced in the A5XX series and hopefully have many of its own.

--
Rick
 
...some of us are just getting tired of wading through the thread-titles about the same old rants before we get to a discussion on something new or some wonderful images someone has taken with their under-featured sony camera.

--
Galleries: http://picasaweb.google.com.au/glennjude

Sony a900, a700; CZ24-70mm, SAL70-300mmG, 50mm F1.4, 100mm F2.8 macro, CZ16-80mm, KM11-18mm, SAL18-250mm

 
by item.
gil
If Sony wants to sell an A560 without a sensor, that's OK with me. When no one buys it they'll learn a lesson.
So the above is not a rant on how stupid you want Sony to be? When no one buys their product, that is their problem. They are having lessons already left and right (betamax, big screen TV, mini-disc, etc.) and your wish is just too late.
If not enough people (and this appears to be the case) buy their cameras without MLU, depth of field preview, etc, that with get their attention.
And that is not a rant as it is the same thing as the above?
What bothers me is the lack of cameras without all the expected features.
Do you have a camera that has all the features you need? If yes, just use it and enjoy life. How do you define expected features? I assume it is your expected features and not universal. My expected features will surely be different from yours although with overlapping ones.
How can you claim to have a camera line when you don't have any cameras (let alone multiple cameras at different price points) that offer the traditional features that advanced amateurs and semi-pros require.
Again, how do you define traditional features? I have used the A100, A700, A900, A850 and A550 and I was able to get usable results from those cameras. You must be a pro or a super expert if those are still lacking to produce some usable pics.
The real problem with Sony dslrs is that they have a couple of expensive full frame cameras with a few features missing and a lot of entry level cameras with lots of features missing.
Expensive full frame compared to what? Last time I checked, Canon and Nikon FF still holds the price points for FF bodies. Did you make a survey to know what is the real problem? I don't have any problem if this is stated as "my or I" rather some generalization. I am not privy to their sales figure and strategy that I can't even make a guess. Lucky are those who can make a guess.
Where are the cameras with all the modes needed, MLU, depth of field preview, fast autofocus, accurate white balance, good jpegs, iso in the viewfinder, build quality, sealing, micro adjustment, big viewfinders, etc.?
So where are they? Did you buy one?
Make all the crippled newby cameras you want and let the p&s crowd rave about face detection and fast live view, but you don't have a camera line if you don't have anything with full features.
Aha, an elitist as if newbies can't take satisfying pics. Define full features and what current camera has it. If available, please buy one so that you can end your misery :) (now there is the smiley). Maybe Sony will make your wish come true - oops, already there.
And by the way, Sony, stop charging more for lenses without IS. There's no advantage to internal stabilization if your lenses cost more than the competition's stabilized lenses.
I don't know. You must be a pro to demand the best as I am content already with old, manual and 3rd party lenses. I don't even have a Sony lens. Ok, seriously, it is economies of scale. We need to buy one first so that they can make more and distribute the cost better.
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.
 
I just thought that since the 5xx series resembled more like the a300 & a350 they were the replacements, maybe I should not think too much =)

I sure wish they did not take out the ISO-100, and the new position of the on-off switch took a little bit to get used to. Thanks for the correction, maybe if we could all be more civil towards each other and not bash the series camera the other has, this forum could be what it was when I started in 2005 when there were more people willing to help out no matter which series you had.

Just my thoughts
Gene
 

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