Reading mode: Light Dark

Radical 7D Opinion - Feel free to give me your deepest thoughts

Go to last post
R

Rich44

Active member
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Location
US
Hello, all.

First, my ostensible qualifications and possible basis for unbiased thought:

I own the 40D, 50D, and 5D Mark II. I have owned the 20D, 5D Mark I, and about 15 Canon lenses, including the 70-200 f4-IS. All excellent cameras.

I resisted buying the 7D because I felt that with the 50D and 5D Mark II, I had my needs covered. The 5D would be for detailed buildings and landscapes, and slow-moving items, and the 50D for sports, fast moving things, and small things at a distance. However, 2 weeks ago I decided to try it out. It felt good, and the speed was impressive.

However, I am now disappointed in image quality and autofocus. I will admit the possibility that it may be my fault. However, here is what I noticed:

1) Image quality appears inferior to that of the 50D. How so? I see less detail. I checked out the DPP settings to see what's up with smoothing (I know, BTW, that there is always some unremovable amount of noise removal in DPP), and noticed that for any given ISO, DPP is choosing as a default higher noise removal settings than it does for the 50D. This would be consistent with the old (prior to everyone seeing and reviewing the 7D) argument that Canon was squeezing even more mp into the same size sensor, and so noise suffers.

I then compared the same images shot with 50D and 7D, with noise set to Zero for both cameras, and so more noise for the 7D.

My settings are RAW, center spot meter and center spot autofocus.

2) Autofocus: I shoot a lot with the Canon 70-200 and 1.4x multiplier. With the 50D and 5D Mark II, I have no issues. Focus is fast and accurate. With the 7D, I have hunting issues. Frequently. I have not changed the focus settings from default.

Comments?
 
My 7D AF noticeably faster than my 50D even with some relatively slow lenses/combo like my 85L and 300/4+tc. I don't know about 5DII but never heard that AF is one of its advantages. 7D also has better IQ than 50D at any ISO and especially ISO1600 and above.
 
Gee, you think?

Listen, I have stated the facts that I saw with my own eyes. Feel free to tell me I mis-set the camera. If you think I'm a liar, feel free to say so.

More helpfully, if you (or someone else) has both the 50D and 7D, and can verify (or dispute) what I saw, either in the images or DPP, that would be good too.

Love,

Rich.
 
Prove you wrong? If you need to be right, then you are right. Matters not to me.

I have no dog in this fight. I have a 40D and am happy with it. If you believe that the 50D has better IQ than the 7D feel free to believe it. I expect you are on an island alone with your “radical opinion”.

As far a AF, if you are not taking advantage of the latest and most advanced AF system in a Canon camera and then are comparing it to “lesser” AF systems, then I expect you are correct. Your 50D is a better camera…all evidence to the contrary…except your radical opinion.
 
I went through similar feelings a few weeks ago. I took both bodies out and shot my dogs playing frisbee with each camera because I didn't think the 7d shots were as they should be. After shooting with both cameras I noticed that my 7d was slightly backfocusing with my 100-400 and my 70-200F2.8IS. I spent some time microadjusting the lenses and results were spot on afterwards and most of the softness was gone. One day I took the 50D out and just shot with it. I very quickly remembered how much better the AF on the 7d is as well as high ISO performance. Shots that I had come to commonly get with the 7D were nearly impossible to get with the 50D.

I have a 5d Mark II now as well. I love the pictures I get with it. There is a certain magic with fullframe. The main reason i bought it was for a bit more wide angles. I figured I could spend $800 on the 10-22 or make my other lenses work for me a bit more by buying the 5dmk II so I did. It takes beautiful pictures and while the autofocus is adequate for most things, it isn't anywhere near the caliber of the 7d. I was reminded of this last night. During the really high winds at one of the rural parks, I see a red tailed hawk fighting the wind so that he ends up just over me about 30 feet, almost stationary in a hover due to the wind. I try to get a shot of him with the 5d but it wouldnt lock on. Suddenly he whipped around the other direction in the 35mph wind and is gone. With the 7d it would have been the easiest shot in the world. The 50d would have had the same trouble as the 5d. The 7d is a really remarkable camera.
 
Rich44 said:
Hello, all.

First, my ostensible qualifications and possible basis for unbiased thought:

I own the 40D, 50D, and 5D Mark II. I have owned the 20D, 5D Mark I, and about 15 Canon lenses, including the 70-200 f4-IS. All excellent cameras.

I resisted buying the 7D because I felt that with the 50D and 5D Mark II, I had my needs covered. The 5D would be for detailed buildings and landscapes, and slow-moving items, and the 50D for sports, fast moving things, and small things at a distance. However, 2 weeks ago I decided to try it out. It felt good, and the speed was impressive.

However, I am now disappointed in image quality and autofocus. I will admit the possibility that it may be my fault. However, here is what I noticed:

1) Image quality appears inferior to that of the 50D. How so? I see less detail. I checked out the DPP settings to see what's up with smoothing (I know, BTW, that there is always some unremovable amount of noise removal in DPP), and noticed that for any given ISO, DPP is choosing as a default higher noise removal settings than it does for the 50D. This would be consistent with the old (prior to everyone seeing and reviewing the 7D) argument that Canon was squeezing even more mp into the same size sensor, and so noise suffers.

I then compared the same images shot with 50D and 7D, with noise set to Zero for both cameras, and so more noise for the 7D.

My settings are RAW, center spot meter and center spot autofocus.

2) Autofocus: I shoot a lot with the Canon 70-200 and 1.4x multiplier. With the 50D and 5D Mark II, I have no issues. Focus is fast and accurate. With the 7D, I have hunting issues. Frequently. I have not changed the focus settings from default.

Comments?
Click to expand...
Others will need to address your comments about the respective AF abilities of the cameras you mentioned, although I will hazard a guess that you probably could fix your 7D's AF issues by performing an AF microadjust on the 7D with your 70-200 mounted. Perhaps that lens, through good luck or whatever, works okay without microadjusting on your 50D and 5D Mk II bodies, but the calibration of your 7D just needs a bit of a tweak?

But as for the noise issues you mentioned, it has been shown conclusively that the 7D sensor is not noisier than that of the 50D, in spite of the 7D's smaller pixels. Here's a link to the page from the Imaging Resource review of the 7D illustrating that:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DRAW.HTM

Keep in mind that the RAW images on that page were converted without applying any NR or sharpening, using dcraw -- a free, third-party converter that absolutely will not apply any NR or sharpening to an image unless directed to do so. As you can see, the 100% crops show that at any given ISO, the 7D images have more detail than those from the 50D, with a roughly equivalent or perhaps slightly lower level of noise (and less banding at the extreme high ISOs). Any difference in results, using DPP or whatever other RAW converter, can be put down to the characteristics of the converter itself -- not to the performance of the camera's sensor and supporting electronics.
--
Greg
 
So you think maybe it was a backfocus issue?

I never had this problem with my 50D, everything was precise. This would explain lack of detail. Would it also account for issues with focusing?

I remember reading about adjusting plus or minus with the 50D, but never needed to.

Perhaps I should just return the camera and try again with a new one.

One question: How did you feel about the comparison between the 7D and the 5D Mark II? As I had said, I have both the 50D and the Mark II. I do notice differences between the 50D and Mark II in image quality, and sometimes feel conflicted. How conflicted would you feel if you would take a shot you could have taken with the Mark II and instead used the 7D, with APS rather than FF, and a few less MPs?

Thanks.
 
Thanks for the link to the comparison images.

I had heard this type of review for the 7D, that is why I bought the 7D, and why I termed my findings radical. But you seem to confirm what I speculated about with the other poster, that a back (or front) focus issue could result in BOTH my AF and detail problem.

Maybe a different unit will do better?

One thing that has not been confirmed to me: My statement about DPP and the fact that its default gives larger number to noise reduction for the 7D than the 50D.
 
Rich44 said:
Thanks for the link to the comparison images.
Click to expand...
No problem -- happy to help.
Rich44 said:
I had heard this type of review for the 7D, that is why I bought the 7D, and why I termed my findings radical. But you seem to confirm what I speculated about with the other poster, that a back (or front) focus issue could result in BOTH my AF and detail problem.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Rich44 said:
Maybe a different unit will do better?
Click to expand...
No. You're missing the point about the AF microadjust feature on the more recent DSLR models (from all DSLR manufacturers by the way, not just from Canon). The microadjust feature was put there so you wouldn't have to return a camera body for BF or FF issues. If you have BF or FF with any of your lenses on a particular body, you simply adjust the body's AF until the calibration is correct for that lens, without affecting the calibration of the body with any other lens. Returning or exchanging one of these bodies for a BF or FF issue (unless it's a severe BF or FF issue with all lenses -- not just one) would be like returning a new stereo receiver, just because the volume knob (or treble or bass) was set too high or too low when you first took it out of the box!
Rich44 said:
One thing that has not been confirmed to me: My statement about DPP and the fact that its default gives larger number to noise reduction for the 7D than the 50D.
Click to expand...
Don't know about that. But from everything I've heard, it certainly is possible to get excellent results when processing the 7D's images through DPP. Maybe you just need to experiment with it a bit more.
--
Greg
 
I read your op and replies and just couldn't stop laughing. Are you a newbie who happens to own some of the most advanced cameras 50D, 5DII and 7D? Did you get good results from your previous cameras through pure luck? You seem to be clueless about even the most elementary techniques of using a dslr unless you're just faking it that way.
 
carlk said:
I read your op and replies and just couldn't stop laughing. Are you a newbie who happens to own some of the most advanced cameras 50D, 5DII and 7D? Did you get good results from your previous cameras through pure luck? You seem to be clueless about even the most elementary techniques of using a dslr unless you're just faking it that way.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind words. My only regret is that I cannot find any substantive content therein, and so I must limit myself to wishing that your heart will open to receive the love and warmth that it appears to so desperately need.

-Rich
 
No answer for my question other than trying to play innocent? Just what you think is your technical level with dslr?
Rich44 said:
carlk said:
I read your op and replies and just couldn't stop laughing. Are you a newbie who happens to own some of the most advanced cameras 50D, 5DII and 7D? Did you get good results from your previous cameras through pure luck? You seem to be clueless about even the most elementary techniques of using a dslr unless you're just faking it that way.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind words. My only regret is that I cannot find any substantive content therein, and so I must limit myself to wishing that your heart will open to receive the love and warmth that it appears to so desperately need.

-Rich
Click to expand...
 
I too own the 40D, 50D and 7D and have found that AF MA seems more crucial to get tack sharp images with the 7D. It may simply be tolerance or variability of the bodies AF calibration but I had to fine tune all my longer lenses to get really sharp images. It may also be related to the higher pixel density making a slightly OOF image more noticeable when viewed at 100% which is how I judge sharpness.

As for AF speed and accuracy that plays into AF MA also. If the lens is not in proper calibration with the body your images will be slightly soft to just plain soft and may give the impression the AF is not as good. Once my lenses were properly calibrated I've found the keeper percentage with BIF is noticeably higher than with my 50D or 40D. I did not feel that way before performing critical AF MA.

Spend some time doing proper AF MA with your 7D and I think you'll be pleased with the results.

Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
 
Here we go again. Calling people newbie whenever they have a different opinion contrary to yours regarding 7D. I bet you go to bed with your 7D. For once you need to step out of your comfort zone.
carlk said:
No answer for my question other than trying to play innocent? Just what you think is your technical level with dslr?
Rich44 said:
carlk said:
I read your op and replies and just couldn't stop laughing. Are you a newbie who happens to own some of the most advanced cameras 50D, 5DII and 7D? Did you get good results from your previous cameras through pure luck? You seem to be clueless about even the most elementary techniques of using a dslr unless you're just faking it that way.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind words. My only regret is that I cannot find any substantive content therein, and so I must limit myself to wishing that your heart will open to receive the love and warmth that it appears to so desperately need.

-Rich
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
One of the advantages of the 7D body (and the 50D) is the micro-adjust feature. Just exchanging it hoping that the next one will be bang on with all your lenses is lost opportunity to go to the next level and do the micro adjustments. In fact, how do you know that the 50D can't be improved by micro-adjustment as well?

I think you will be happier by doing the micro-adjust before resorting to a new body. By the way, I have heard more than once that if micro-adjustment is needed, AF will often hunt.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39169343@N04/
 
I'd send it back and exchange for another or better yet a used 1diii. You want spot on with your lenses without af adj, particularly if your other bodies require little/no af adj.

having to do a lot of af adj is a tip off that the body has some issues
Rich44 said:
Hello, all.

First, my ostensible qualifications and possible basis for unbiased thought:

I own the 40D, 50D, and 5D Mark II. I have owned the 20D, 5D Mark I, and about 15 Canon lenses, including the 70-200 f4-IS. All excellent cameras.

I resisted buying the 7D because I felt that with the 50D and 5D Mark II, I had my needs covered. The 5D would be for detailed buildings and landscapes, and slow-moving items, and the 50D for sports, fast moving things, and small things at a distance. However, 2 weeks ago I decided to try it out. It felt good, and the speed was impressive.

However, I am now disappointed in image quality and autofocus. I will admit the possibility that it may be my fault. However, here is what I noticed:

1) Image quality appears inferior to that of the 50D. How so? I see less detail. I checked out the DPP settings to see what's up with smoothing (I know, BTW, that there is always some unremovable amount of noise removal in DPP), and noticed that for any given ISO, DPP is choosing as a default higher noise removal settings than it does for the 50D. This would be consistent with the old (prior to everyone seeing and reviewing the 7D) argument that Canon was squeezing even more mp into the same size sensor, and so noise suffers.

I then compared the same images shot with 50D and 7D, with noise set to Zero for both cameras, and so more noise for the 7D.

My settings are RAW, center spot meter and center spot autofocus.

2) Autofocus: I shoot a lot with the Canon 70-200 and 1.4x multiplier. With the 50D and 5D Mark II, I have no issues. Focus is fast and accurate. With the 7D, I have hunting issues. Frequently. I have not changed the focus settings from default.

Comments?
Click to expand...
 
Rich44 said:
1) Image quality appears inferior to that of the 50D.
Click to expand...
Rich44 said:
I then compared the same images shot with 50D and 7D, with noise set to Zero for both cameras, and so more noise for the 7D.
Click to expand...
I tested my 50D against my 7D in the noise department. My 7D is at least 1 stop better with no banding .

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=34840087
Rich44 said:
2) With the 7D, I have hunting issues. Frequently. I have not changed the focus settings from default.
Click to expand...
Again, no problems with mine. The 7D far exceeds my 40D and 50D AF capabilities.

--
http://www.pbase.com/clknight
Colin
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top