Pls help newbie to choose a camera

Hi, being new to Micro Four Thirds, and confused with so many possiblities, I come here ask good folks of this forum to help me make a decision.

What I care are:

1. small size - my main interest is shooting people, and I don't want people to be freighted by big camera;
2. good lag time;
3. an optical view finder will be nice;
4. good high ISO (low light) performance;

5. good video function - I am a fan of classic music and ballet and will film lots of them, very often, they are indoors;
6. good built quality.

What I don't care are:

1. ability to shoot raw;
2. flash;
3. macro.

your opinion will be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

neverhurry said:

Hi, being new to Micro Four Thirds, and confused with so many possiblities, I come here ask good folks of this forum to help me make a decision.

What I care are:

1. small size - my main interest is shooting people, and I don't want people to be freighted by big camera;

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Any micro 4/3 camera have a good size

neverhurry said:

2. good lag time;

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Panasonics are fast

neverhurry said:

3. an optical view finder will be nice;

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Until now that don't exist (I think... )

neverhurry said:

4. good high ISO (low light) performance;

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Olympus and Panasonic have good performance for the size of the sensor

neverhurry said:

5. good video function - I am a fan of classic music and ballet and will film lots of them, very often, they are indoors;

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The GH1 the best video

neverhurry said:

6. good built quality.

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All, but I prefer Panasonic Lumix

neverhurry said:

What I don't care are:

1. ability to shoot raw;

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All have it

neverhurry said:

2. flash;

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Some have it

neverhurry said:

3. macro.

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That is a lens issue

neverhurry said:

your opinion will be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

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--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication

• http://aleo-photo.org

• http://blog.aleo-photo.org

neverhurry said:

5. good video function - I am a fan of classic music and ballet and will film lots of them, very often, they are indoors;

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You may run into trouble here. While the GH1 is the best video-shooting MFT camera hands-down, the 14-140/4-5.8 lens is not particularly good for low light shooting. Also, the high ISO performance of the MFT cameras loses out to APS-C cameras.

You may be better off getting a Canon 7D or 550D (depending on budget) and a fast telephoto zoom or prime if 5. is a critical factor in your choice.

OP listed #1 priority as small size for people shooting. OP will have to balance out priority of size versus video. I bought the 20mm 1.7 to balance the 14-140 slowness. Compromises, Compromises

Voldenuit said:

neverhurry said:

5. good video function - I am a fan of classic music and ballet and will film lots of them, very often, they are indoors;

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You may run into trouble here. While the GH1 is the best video-shooting MFT camera hands-down, the 14-140/4-5.8 lens is not particularly good for low light shooting. Also, the high ISO performance of the MFT cameras loses out to APS-C cameras.

You may be better off getting a Canon 7D or 550D (depending on budget) and a fast telephoto zoom or prime if 5. is a critical factor in your choice.

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--
Curt on Cape Cod

Thank you, Aleo and Voldenuit. I checked out GH1, it is indeed a great camera for video, but it's a little bigger too. Voldenuit, no DSLR, those are just too big, size matters, that's why I put it in the first place. I check EP1 and EP2, I love the white color EP1. The bad thing is both of them have a 7 min limit in HD movie. Is EP2 much better in video? EP2 is more expensive, but is still within my price expectation.

Well, I have a GF-1, and find the video functions to be pretty good. The problem is it doesn't have a mic-in (unlike the EP-2), so sound quality is poor (I intend to dub most of my videos, so that is a non-issue for me).

The Panny 20/1.7 is great for shooting video in low light (on either camera). If you're in the front row, it may be good enough for your uses. You can also use a manual lens and focus manually while shooting video. It's not too hard (people have been doing that for years in Hollywood), but is a lot of work, and would require either the GF1 or the EP-2 with EVF (as I don't think the low resolution LCD on the EP-2 would be great for focus confirmation).

The GF1 has a faster AF, but the EP-2 has better JPEGs out of the box.

It's all a case of swings and roundabouts. I went with the GF1 because I shoot RAW, I can't stand slow AF and I want a flash handy. I also use the rear LCD to focus with my manual primes, so it was the obvious choice. Your conclusions may vary.

neverhurry said:

1. small size - my main interest is shooting people, and I don't want people to be freighted by big camera;

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GF1 or EP1/2/l1 are the smallest of the bunch - further to this the Oly kit zoom is the smallest when colapsed... just. - I assume a Rebel Ti is too much camera for your likeing? As like prev poster said, this covers most of your needs very well, but looks like a "proper camera" Ahem.... cough* cough*

neverhurry said:

2. good lag time;

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All the m4/3 cams are quick and responsive - but auto focus is noticably faster on the panasonics....

neverhurry said:

3. an optical view finder will be nice;

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Thats a good reason you might want to look at the canon Ti thing....

But you could get the EP1 and kit 17mm pancake with a OVF all be it not through the lens... bit crap realy.... not what your after I'm shaw - just cut out a square of plastic, bluetack it to the top and bang you have one!

neverhurry said:

4. good high ISO (low light) performance;

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GH1 is the best m4/3 buy say (for arguments sake) a stop...

I personaly am without issue using my EP1 up to 800iso, but will be ok with using 1600iso but I won't go higher... with the GH1 I feel I would use 3200 as my top end - images are not perfict but still good at 3200 on the GH1

neverhurry said:

5. good video function - I am a fan of classic music and ballet and will film lots of them, very often, they are indoors;

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Like has been said - Definatly the GH1 will be the best for video - arguably better than any other SLR type cam in existance.

But all the others do make very good quality video. The EP1 has a resnoable mic too - good sound quality... can't talk for any other m4/3 But the GH1 can also have proper external mic accesory...

EP1 has a 7min time limmit to its video clips, but has digital stabalization. Panasonic will only have lens stabalization (I say only, because it will not be there when adapting old MF lenses form other systems, but lens will be better than digital - digital in this case crops/zooms the image slightly to alow for shifting compensation)...

Panasonics Have AVDHC as well as MJPEG - good to have as an option, but not essential.

neverhurry said:

6. good built quality.

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Herd the strap luggs can come off old GH1s (fixed now) but apart from that all are built very well... As good as any other... even the epl1 is not gonna fall apart....

neverhurry said:

What I don't care are:

1. ability to shoot raw;
2. flash;
3. macro.

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All shoot RAW
No flash on ep1/2 - all others have one..
EP kit zoom trys admrably when goign for macro - but is not substitute...

Oh, it's getting so complicated.... it is simply a headache.... thinking and rethinking.... thanks a bunch!

J R R S, thanks, i found out the EP1/2's IBIS very useful, pany have other great features, but IBIS is important for me. So I narrow the choise to EP1 and EP2, what's your opinion if you have to choose one from them.

PS: what is EP2's EVF? Is it something like the OVF? What is it good for? It looks quite big to the EP2 body. Is it an option or it is sold together with the camera?

Anyone has experience using ext. mic with EP2? Is it far better than EP1's embed mic?

EP-2 + EVF.

The GHI is heavily discounted now, so for video its by far the best here. While its larger than the flatter cameras, with a tele lens attached its not all that much bigger. While the lens is not perfect in low light, do some research on whether the 14-140 lens would cope with a classical concert. Due to the bright stage light, I think it would handle it easily. The 14-140 lens is very expensive, and is designed for video. Its silent, so the music will not be disturbed while you use the camera. And if you get at all close to the stage, the bokeh with the lens wide open would make a great video. They now cost without a memory card under $1200.

The next choice is more difficult. IMO the next best camera is the E-PL1 (with 14-42 lens its $600 ... but if you buy an EVF-2, that will cost $250. So your up for $850 plus a card. But to make the camera much better, add the Panasonic 20mm pancake lens which is very fast, for $400 and you've now spent $1250. You could buy the stereo microphone and you'd get good sound too (not sure how much extra the microphone would cost).

Really the GH-1 is the camera IMO for what you want. its not what I'll buy, but then if your going to capture music, that fantastic lens would do it, and the camera does too.

A couple of things about the video: the mechanical IBIS in Olympus cameras does not work in video mode (due to the heat load) so the Olympus Pens revert to image shifting on the sensor. The Panasonic relies on the lens OIS to stablize things. The disadvantage of lens stability is that it adds cost to each lens and it adds weight and bulk. But the advantage is retrieved back in spades for video users, because the OIS works in the lens, and does not overheat the sesnor.

The GH1 also has two CPUs to aid in video work.

The GHI also has an all digital sensor, while other sensors convert analogue data. This aids video.

The GHI has a larger sensor, which benefits widescreen video modes (16:9).

For still photography, the 14-150 can be a terrific lens as well. Its a costly lens to make, and at the current price, the GH1 a the bargain for people who want to shoot some video.

In low light, the GH1 sensor is also better performing than the other sensors in m43.

I'm likely to buy an E-PL1 with its kit 14-42 lens and a Panasonic 20mm lens. In Australia, the GH1 is extremely costly, but in the US it is much much cheaper.

A m43 system of a camera + lens will cost you over $1200 dollars. Olympus ELP1 is the cheapest one out there.

Samsung NX10 system will probably save you $400, but movie is not as good.

Or Canon G11 ($400) is what you really need.

I have been into our local shop quite a few times to look at the GF1 and EP2. Another thing that I found helped out was to download the manuals for each.

For the few adjustments I like to make on the fly I am actually leaning towards the E-PL1. (wish they had a dedicated ISO button, however.)

My favorite control layout was the GF1, but I am not convinced I could get the same output, even in RAW, given my level of expertise. I am not opposed to RAW, as I tweak all my favorite Nikon images in NX2 or Lightroom, but I just keep seeing so many "wow" images from the Olympus images. But then so many pros use GF1 as backup. Just about to flip a coin. . . . But the E-PL1 is leading so far.

@Melbourne Park:

Man, I almost decided for EP2 this afternoon, now your reply hits me.... Have to think it again.... thank you very much for the very detailed and useful analyze.

I checked amazon.de, GH1 costs 1379 euro....

Melbourne Park said:

The GHI is heavily discounted now, so for video its by far the best here. While its larger than the flatter cameras, with a tele lens attached its not all that much bigger. While the lens is not perfect in low light, do some research on whether the 14-140 lens would cope with a classical concert. Due to the bright stage light, I think it would handle it easily. The 14-140 lens is very expensive, and is designed for video. Its silent, so the music will not be disturbed while you use the camera. And if you get at all close to the stage, the bokeh with the lens wide open would make a great video. They now cost without a memory card under $1200.

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nofumble, thanks, i can spent to 1000 euro, but if something is very good, I can make it to 1200 euro. G11 has only a 640x480 mode movie which is a little pity. NX10 is very intereting, even powerful plus good price, but it is a little bulky,

nofumble said:

A m43 system of a camera + lens will cost you over $1200 dollars. Olympus ELP1 is the cheapest one out there.

Samsung NX10 system will probably save you $400, but movie is not as good.

Or Canon G11 ($400) is what you really need.

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neverhurry said:

Hi, being new to Micro Four Thirds, and confused with so many possiblities, I come here ask good folks of this forum to help me make a decision.

What I care are:

1. small size - my main interest is shooting people, and I don't want people to be freighted by big camera;
2. good lag time;
3. an optical view finder will be nice;
4. good high ISO (low light) performance;

5. good video function - I am a fan of classic music and ballet and will film lots of them, very often, they are indoors;
6. good built quality.

Click to expand...

Apart of 5. what you are describing is almost an M9. If you want to go for MFT, you'll have to accept come compromises and decide what is more important to you : good jpeg quality out of the box ? or fast AF. Superb viewfinder, or better lcd. Superb viewfinder or articulable lcd.. etc.

The E-P2 for instance doesn't come with an optical viewfinder, but it has the best viewfinder of all the MFT cameras. However, while it doesn't have a dreadfull lag time, its AF isn't the fastest of MFT cameras.

If you want video, the best HDMI etc. is the GH1, but apart of the G1, all others have video. Olympus have bigger files, but they are easier to work with once you have them. The HDMI file format of the GH1 is high quality, very compressed, but they take a lot of computer ressources to decompress and convert.

neverhurry said:

What I don't care are:

1. ability to shoot raw;
2. flash;
3. macro.

your opinion will be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Click to expand...

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rrr_hhh

Hi rrr_hhh, very interesting insight. No leica, that will be too much money. Yes, jpeg is good enough for me. I think all MFT cameras have relative good lag time and tolerable AF speed (if i am wrong pls correct me). Of course they can not be compared with Leica. Viewfinder is important, and I find EP2's EVF very interesting, it can be turn 90 degrees, that's something very useful. GH1 is a superb MFT for video, but it is much bigger, and in Europe it is still expensive. NX10 is a very interesting camera and has good price but Oly is smaller and good design, and I am sure EP2 with EVF and ext. mic can make very good video. I heard folks in Samsung forum praise NX10 and criticize that MFT oly and pany are overpriced. Over all, i found EP2 fits me the most. Go on checking.... thanks for everybody.

rrr_hhh said:

neverhurry said:

Hi, being new to Micro Four Thirds, and confused with so many possiblities, I come here ask good folks of this forum to help me make a decision.

What I care are:

1. small size - my main interest is shooting people, and I don't want people to be freighted by big camera;
2. good lag time;
3. an optical view finder will be nice;
4. good high ISO (low light) performance;

5. good video function - I am a fan of classic music and ballet and will film lots of them, very often, they are indoors;
6. good built quality.

Click to expand...

Apart of 5. what you are describing is almost an M9. If you want to go for MFT, you'll have to accept come compromises and decide what is more important to you : good jpeg quality out of the box ? or fast AF. Superb viewfinder, or better lcd. Superb viewfinder or articulable lcd.. etc.

The E-P2 for instance doesn't come with an optical viewfinder, but it has the best viewfinder of all the MFT cameras. However, while it doesn't have a dreadfull lag time, its AF isn't the fastest of MFT cameras.

If you want video, the best HDMI etc. is the GH1, but apart of the G1, all others have video. Olympus have bigger files, but they are easier to work with once you have them. The HDMI file format of the GH1 is high quality, very compressed, but they take a lot of computer ressources to decompress and convert.

rrr_hhh said:

What I don't care are:

1. ability to shoot raw;
2. flash;
3. macro.

your opinion will be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Click to expand...

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rrr_hhh

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