Need Help with m4/3 buying decision! EP-2 vs GF-1 vs GH-1

Rajit · Dec 23, 2009

Hi all,

A couple of weeks ago I finally delved into the world of 'dslr' photography when I bought a used G1 in mint condition. I did this after a lot of whining about how little money I had to spend on a camera, the need for it to be tiny (for my wife and I to both enjoy) ... yada yada yada...

Anyway, after ruling out all other options like the Oly 620, etc we both agreed that a m4/3 system camera would be the best suited for our needs. We love to travel and take mainly pics from our experiences (places, nature [flowers, trees, little critters],) and the like. We were all the more excited when we found a G1 that fit into our tight budget.

Well it turns out that me wife now strongly feels the need for video! This desire for video is even stronger given that my brother wants to pay for all or most of a new camera!!

So this brings me back to square one! Anyway, I have rounded the choices off to the GH1 (best of all worlds?), GF1(compact, flash) or EP2 (In body stabilization). I understand the shortcomings of all three as well.

My main concern is the lack of built in EVF on the GF1 and EP2. I'm wondering how much I'll miss this. This amazing photoblog http://craigmod.com/journal/gf1-fieldtest/
has somewhat assured me that this will not be a huge loss.

I wish the EP2 had a flash or the GF1 had in built stab.! Oh well!!

Given our shooting requirments (mainly travel/nature/marco??), I'd love to hear from people who went through the same dilemma. What did you settle on? How has your experience been?

thanks,
Rajit

MrPhotoBob · Dec 23, 2009

Rajit, I will be very interested in this thread, I am at the very same crossing in the road in my search to buy a camera.

stimmer · Dec 23, 2009

You can't go wrong with either camera. They are both pretty fabulous, and will take great pictures and video.

In the end I bought the E-P2 because I have a significant investment in 4/3 lenses and bodies, and the E-P2 will autofocus those. Also being an E3 owner I also had less startup time with the menu system because I'm so familiar with it. I do really like the way the E-P2 looks. Very sleek and discreet.

As chronicled on here very well the Panny will autofocus a little better than the E-P2(I just posted a video on the autofocus so you can see it in action), and the E-P2 will have somewhat better out of the camera jpgs.

The E-P2 will have the better viewfinder, and also has stereo sound(which is pretty good).

GF1 has what some consider to be better ergonomics, but again that's a very personal choice. It also has somewhat better resolution if you shoot RAW.

Whatever you do make sure you get the lovely 20mm 1.7. That lens really makes these cameras very portable and low light capable.

I think any users on here who would have bought either camera would be happy with their choice. To get the SLR quality photos in this small of a package is somewhat of a revelation. Shlepping equipment around for years at a time gets pretty old and takes the fun out of photography in some ways.

Good luck with your choice. It's not an easy one!

tyampel · Dec 23, 2009

I say keep the GF1 and buy your wife a ZS3/TZ7 camera for video.
This little gem makes good videos with stereo sound to boot.

Good luck.

--
Tod Yampel

Duck Club member

jimr · Dec 23, 2009

You may get some passionate responses. I just went through the same decision making process.

We are 'blessed' with 5 truly wonderful cameras, but in the end we have to choose one (might you purchase more?).

You will be happy with any of them...but this was my personal decision making process...............

1. May I suggest reading the following:
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_gf1-review/compare
2. See these samples and read the comments if you have any doubt about JPEG IQ:
http://stevehuffphotos.com/Steve_Huff_Photos/THE_PANASONIC_GF1_REVIEW_5.html
and:
http://stevehuffphotos.com/Steve_Huff_Photos/THE_PANASONIC_GF1_REVIEW_6.html

The better JPEG discussion is subjective, and with so many image parameter adjustments NR, Saturation, Contrast, Sharpness, Colors....Vivid...you can tune the OOC in many ways if you so desire....Note the samples above were/are very much inline with my subjective preferences....yes...subjective.
3. I chose the GF1 over the lovely Oly for a number of concrete reasons:

A. Built in flash unit....Not only for indoors, but also fill in flash outdoors.

B. A low light AF Assist Beam. Something that can and does make a difference in low light focusing capability and something that I personally believe all cameras need to have. The Oly does not have it.
C. Faster AF.

D.Although some camera companies provide important firmware updates, Panasonic has been one of the best (if not the best) in providing not only fixes, but adding important features with firmware upgrades even after a camera has been around for awhile. Note the excellent additions to the LX3 a year and a half after introduction.
E. The LCD in the GF1 is notably superior.
F. The Image Stabilzation debate:

Yes, the Oly has it built into the body in the form of Sensor Stabilzation that works with all lenses. Yes, Panasonic has it in the mid to longer focal length lenses in the forum of Optical Image Stabalization.

So...Why do I prefer the Panasonic version? Optical Image Stabilization has been shown to be more effective in many DSLR tests. Yes, some wide angle lenses in the Panasonic line do not have it built in...but the wide angle lenses are exactly the ones where any image stabilization is by far less important. Remember the 'old riule' The lowest handholable shutter speed for most people is 1/the focal length range. Note that the two leaders in professional DSLRs ...Canon and Nikon use only Optical Image Stablization. It is simply more effective. Read many DSLR tests and you will see that confirmed not only by Nikon and Canon's decision.

Michael Meissner · Dec 23, 2009

jimr said:
D.Although some camera companies provide important firmware updates, Panasonic has been one of the best (if not the best) in providing not only fixes, but adding important features with firmware upgrades even after a camera has been around for awhile. Note the excellent additions to the LX3 a year and a half after introduction.

Though their stunt with firmware that locks out third party batteries was one of the minor reasons I didn't not consider Panasonic cameras seriously. However, not auto focusing my 4/3rds lenses and really disliking the feel of the cameras in my hand were more important.

jimr · Dec 23, 2009

Yes, the battery lock out is not a plus...but in the scheme of things...an extra $30 or so dollars in a large expenditure and any displeasure was not enough to sway my decision.

The presence of both the flash and AF Asssist Beam are truly daily functional issues that are important to me. Their presence make a real difference, not just a theoretical one.

I really do not understand the lack of an AF Assist Beam in the Olys.........It was a poor decision on Oly's part.

Robert Deutsch · Dec 23, 2009

Rajit said:
My main concern is the lack of built in EVF on the GF1 and EP2. I'm wondering how much I'll miss this. This amazing photoblog http://craigmod.com/journal/gf1-fieldtest/
has somewhat assured me that this will not be a huge loss.

You do know that an optional EVF is available for the GF1, right? Its resolution is lower than you get with the E2 (or the G1/GH1), but it works fine for framing and focusing. It's also smaller than the one on the E-P2, and, being removable, you can decide to put it on only when you have the need for it. I use it only when (1) it's outside and very bright, washing out the LCD image, (2) I'm using the 45-200 (rather than the 20mm), where it helps in keeping the camera steady. It's a very useful accessory. I love the GF1, but if size is not an issue and video is particularly important, then the GH1/14-140 is the obvious choice. The articulated LCD is also a very nice feature.

Bob

Jogger · Dec 23, 2009

Rajit said:
Hi all,

A couple of weeks ago I finally delved into the world of 'dslr' photography when I bought a used G1 in mint condition. I did this after a lot of whining about how little money I had to spend on a camera, the need for it to be tiny (for my wife and I to both enjoy) ... yada yada yada...

Anyway, after ruling out all other options like the Oly 620, etc we both agreed that a m4/3 system camera would be the best suited for our needs. We love to travel and take mainly pics from our experiences (places, nature [flowers, trees, little critters],) and the like. We were all the more excited when we found a G1 that fit into our tight budget.

Well it turns out that me wife now strongly feels the need for video! This desire for video is even stronger given that my brother wants to pay for all or most of a new camera!!

So this brings me back to square one! Anyway, I have rounded the choices off to the GH1 (best of all worlds?), GF1(compact, flash) or EP2 (In body stabilization). I understand the shortcomings of all three as well.

My main concern is the lack of built in EVF on the GF1 and EP2. I'm wondering how much I'll miss this. This amazing photoblog http://craigmod.com/journal/gf1-fieldtest/
has somewhat assured me that this will not be a huge loss.

I wish the EP2 had a flash or the GF1 had in built stab.! Oh well!!

Given our shooting requirments (mainly travel/nature/marco??), I'd love to hear from people who went through the same dilemma. What did you settle on? How has your experience been?

thanks,
Rajit

Rajit · Dec 23, 2009

Thank you all for the responses...

Jim, thanks a ton for the detailed response as to why you went with the GF1. I suppose they are some strong reasons for you having picked the GF1. Funny thing is until this morning I was thinking mainly GH1 until I read the travelogue with the GF1 and then also started reading about the EP2.

I'm wondering (for my novice abilities with a 'dslr' type camera) if the lack of built in EVF is a deal breaker? For the few times I've taken the G1 out of it's box (I'm trying to keep it as new as how I bought it as I intend to sell it), I enjoyed peering through the evf.... gave me some sort of control/balance I suppose

That's probably the only reason for leaning towards the GH1 although it is significantly more expensive!!

I think the thing to do would be to go out and try them both (gf1 and ep2) in my hand. I'm wondering whether the lack of built in flash is a bigger deal breaker than the lack of inbuilt IS. I know this adds nothing to the discussion and only adds more to the confusion! Arrgggh.......!!!

jimr · Dec 23, 2009

I empathize!

The presence of an AF Assist Beam is at least as important to me. Someone posted a few days ago how they used a flashlight with the Oly to help it focus in low light. I found that amusing and was trying to picture the photographer standing there camera in one hand...flashlight in another ;}

StillHaveMyDiana · Dec 23, 2009

Rajit said:
Rajit said:
Hi all,

A couple of weeks ago I finally delved into the world of 'dslr' photography when I bought a used G1 in mint condition... Well it turns out that me wife now strongly feels the need for video!... Anyway, I have rounded the choices off to the GH1 (best of all worlds?), GF1(compact, flash) or EP2 (In body stabilization).

I suggest you keep the G1 and get a compact video camera. Video on a still camera is a nice "extra" feature, but not a substitute if you are serious about shooting video. Still cameras have ergonomics designed for stills (for example, a video camera without an articulated LCD is a really dumb choice, IMHO), lousy tiny microphones in the wrong place for directional stereo capture, and are way overkill on resolution. Resolution overkill matters because you want at least 10X optical range on a video camera (15X is better), which you can get with a small lens if you have a smaller sensor. HDTV resolution is 2 MP and anything more just means a bigger sensor (for the same ISO sensitivity) and thus a much more expensive lens, all of which goes to waste but that you have to pay for and lug around. Compare the Panasonic 14-140 to the lenses on any prosumer video camera and you will immediately see my point.

Buy the right tool for each of those very different jobs and you won't be sorry. Besides, that way your wife and you can both have fun at once on your trips!

stimmer · Dec 23, 2009

The flashes on the GH1 and G1 are much better than the GF1, plus they have built in finders and tilt/swivel LCDs. You might consider those cameras, although I personally think the E-P2/GF-1 image quality is a little better.

I haven't had any trouble focusing in low light with my E-P2 yet, and I've shot in total darkness. I also bought the FL-14 flash to use in a pinch, but I haven't had to use it much at all.

With the 20mm 1.7, and great high ISO, you can shoot natural light all day long. Using an FL-50 for so long I personally consider the on board flash to be foremergency use only. They are just too weak for anything other than closeups, and groups you can forget it.

Anyway, from what I'm reading you say I think you should look seriously at the GH1. Nice video capability, built in EVF and flash. It's not going to be as portable but it has everything you seem to want.

Just my opinion.

Michael Meissner · Dec 23, 2009

jimr said:
Yes, the battery lock out is not a plus...but in the scheme of things...an extra $30 or so dollars in a large expenditure and any displeasure was not enough to sway my decision.

The presence of both the flash and AF Asssist Beam are truly daily functional issues that are important to me. Their presence make a real difference, not just a theoretical one.

Since I have external flashes and never use the pop-up flash on my E-3 (and E-510 before it) unless I don't have the external flash handy, the pop-up flash was not an issue to me. I generally think the pop-up flash is only useful for taking police mug shots where harsh shadows and red-eyes in humans is not a deal killer. IIRC, the pop-up flash on the G-F1 is particularly weak.

jimr said:
I really do not understand the lack of an AF Assist Beam in the Olys.........It was a poor decision on Oly's part.

Note, on the E-1 (the last Olympus camera with an on-body AF light) the AF beam on camera is often times blocked by the larger lenses. I would have preferred both Panasonic and Olympus to use the focus assist light on the flash for the micro 4/3rds cameras. But they didn't.

stimmer · Dec 23, 2009

I agree with you post also.

Teski · Dec 23, 2009

The GH1 video will beat out the compact video cameras in quality easily. You can't get any DOF in the compact video cameras like you can with the interchangeable lenses and the quality of the video from the GH1.

If the OP loves the images out of the G1, and if video is important to his wife, then the GH1 is a great option and they aren't carrying around multiple cameras, multiple chargers, etc.

I have a Flip MinoHD, a Canon HF10, a Panny GH1, and a Panny GF1. For the ultimate carry around kit with killer viewfinder, all-in-one lens, great images, and great video, it's the GH1 in my book.

--
Thanks,

Teski
http://www.tedescophotography.com

StillHaveMyDiana · Dec 23, 2009

The FlipHD is very compact but is the video equivalent of a point-and-shoot still camera. Expect to pay $600-$1200 for a prosumer-grade video camera, but like for still photography you get what you pay for.

GoTheDistance · Dec 23, 2009

The mentioned cameras are much more alike than they are different. The most important thing when purchasing a camera is to look at a lot of sample photos and videos, note what lense was used and if the output grabs your eyes' attention. Everything else such as specs, ergonomics, etc. are secondary. Sometimes too much emphasis is put on specs, high ISO, IS, etc. but the output don't make you go WOW.

StillHaveMyDiana · Dec 23, 2009

If you absolutely need 1 body more than you need good video, then there is no disagreement. But your points are confusing:

Teski said:
The GH1 video will beat out the compact video cameras in quality easily.

Which quality aspect are you referring to? Remember we are talking about a 2MP image.

Teski said:
You can't get any DOF in the compact video cameras like you can with the interchangeable lenses and the quality of the video from the GH1.

Prosumer video cameras have much higher ISO sensitivity at the same noise level than the GH1 due to the lower resolution requirement, thus shoot at a smaller aperture thus better DOF. Again, what is the basis for what you are claiming?

Teski said:
If the OP loves the images out of the G1, and if video is important to his wife, then the GH1 is a great option and they aren't carrying around multiple cameras, multiple chargers, etc.

The OP has not seen any video images from any of these cameras, so how can you claim that? There is an assumption in this forum that video quality = still quality and video ergonomics = still ergonomics, which is not based on any concrete data.

Kit size is always a tradeoff. But most people who buy a $1K+ camera tend to have more than a single body and lens anyway.

The other thing to consider is that the microphones on all still cameras are gastly. Video microphones need to be big, directional, wind-filtered and pointing forward. The microphones on still cameras have none of those features.

My suggestion is that the OP try out a few small prosumer video cameras before making a decision, that's all.

StillHaveMyDiana · Dec 23, 2009

GoTheDistance said:
The most important thing when purchasing a camera is to look at a lot of sample photos and videos.

Unfortunately, when we buy a camera, we don't buy the photographer with it...

Need Help with m4/3 buying decision! EP-2 vs GF-1 vs GH-1

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