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DxO tests of 7D

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Moral of the story : You wanted to buy 7D, but your couldn't :-) and hence...
mfurman said:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database

Just see 7D, 5D and 40D comparison for PRINT.

7D curves look strange and with exception of dynamic range, 7Dis not really better than either of these cameras!

Let the criticism of DxO tests begin :-)

--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
Click to expand...
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rndman
 
No. The moral of the story is:

I got 7D and returned it after quick comparison with my 40D and 5D. Since everybody has been raving about 7D, I just waited for DxO tests.

As a matter of fact, I even regret selling my 20D, when looking at my older images taken with it.

--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
 
May be you had a "bad copy".
mfurman said:
No. The moral of the story is:

I got 7D and returned it after quick comparison with my 40D and 5D. Since everybody has been raving about 7D, I just waited for DxO tests.

As a matter of fact, I even regret selling my 20D, when looking at my older images taken with it.

--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
Click to expand...
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rndman
 
"Bad copy" of a camera - that is very interesting !

Did you actually see DxO tests?

--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
 
mfurman said:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database

Just see 7D, 5D and 40D comparison for PRINT.

7D curves look strange and with exception of dynamic range, 7Dis not really better than either of these cameras!

Let the criticism of DxO tests begin :-)
Click to expand...
I can't get the comparison to work and I don't see a Print option.
mfurman said:
--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
Click to expand...
 
I have a question on Dx0 test (particularly the test on noise and colour sensitivity). Are the results normalized for pixel density. I.,e if the SNR is 18% vs 17% butt he camera with 18% noise has 2x pixel does this mean there is more information or less ?

Like wise for colour sensitivity; if there is less sensitivity but more pixel do the extra pixel capture more transitions ?

--I found the answer; they provide both data sets (you can compare for example the D300s vs 7D via both raw (screen) and normalized (print). The d300s is a bit better than the canon (from their analysis) when looking at raw data; when looking at the normalized data the 7d seems to produce a better image ('cept at iso 100); as to the actual real life difference it is hard to judge from their graph. Clearly if you pixel peak then the nikon will win but this is expected due to the smaller pixel of the canon.
 
I think a comparison to the original 5D is just not appropriate. You are talking about a camera with a significantly larger sensor and significantly larger pixels. I also had one and it really was a fantastic camera - the images were great.

I am not a huge DxOMark fan so take this for what it is - just my opinion.

You comment that the 7D is no better than the 40D based on their testing yet their overall sensor score for the 7D is better than the 40D as is the dynamic range and the low-light ISO - what gives? Or is a sensor more than just one measurement - perhaps more than the 5 tabs across their comparison screen?

Yes the individual graphs would indicate that you are correct although a couple of fractions of dB or bits here and there really aren't going to be that noticable. Telling your friends that your 40D is better than the 7D because at the manufacturer rating of 800 ISO it is 0.46 bits better at capturing tonal range may make you feel better but I doubt that your friends and family will notice a difference. I think you better print out the chart so that you can tell them why no camera ever produced in the future will ever best your 40D.

You can use the same tool to justify purchasing a Nikon D90 over a Nikon D300s.

There is nothing wrong with the 40D, it still performs very well but so does the 7D. This is ever so true simply because if you can't get a decent image out of one, the chances are you won't be able do get a decent image out of the other. The photographer creates the photograph in the end. Knowledge and experience of basics will mean a world of difference in the final output.
mfurman said:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image-Quality-Database

Just see 7D, 5D and 40D comparison for PRINT.

7D curves look strange and with exception of dynamic range, 7Dis not really better than either of these cameras!

Let the criticism of DxO tests begin :-)

--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
Click to expand...
 
ShawnCo said:
I think a comparison to the original 5D is just not appropriate. You are talking about a camera with a significantly larger sensor and significantly larger pixels.
Click to expand...
Well, many said that 7D is better than 5D as far as noise is concerned. There were also those who said that 7D is better than 5D mkII :-)

Any comparison is appropriate, in my mind.

As I said, I did have 7D briefly. My decision was to forget about crop cameras. I will be replacing my 5D with 1dS mkIII and keeping 40D as my last crop camera.
--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
 
Moral of the story: After 3 returned 7D bodies I got 5D markII month ago and very happy!!!
I didn't wait for those tests, I found it hard way myself.
Now, let's start again "bad copy" and "questionable test" by DxO :-)
 
One thing not compared by dx0 are non image features of the camera. The reason to upgrade from 40d to 7d is IFFF you feel the other features (faster (and hopefully more accurate) focus/tracking; grid in view finder; 100% view and so forth). If none of these (and unlisted) features are justify the cost then there is probably little value in upgrading; but this has been true for a long time with many cameras.
-

Naturally there is always a slippery slope of features. I personally would like accurate (even if slow) auto focus with a view finder that is easy to manual focus (even if it is not 100%) on a full frame sensor in a body that weighs 600g. Obviously none of the vendors are producing such a camera today because they feel that wether sealing and 100% full frame and cross type sensors and fast auto focus are features that should be combined. From a business perspective this might make sense; it is just non-optimal for my style.
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Anyways if you want pure image quality as your only constraint in selection then consider a MF digital back (though don't try to push it to iso 1600). If you have multiple constraints then only you can weigh the trade offs.
 
That does not surprise me. If you go way back when the 7D was announced I said I wished that Canon had kept it 15 megapixels and worked on the DR. I was going to pass on it but after seeing the low light performance and a few other improvements I went for it. The other bonus is the new AF system. I'm really glad I upgraded.

So if you think about not much better than the other xxD it depends on what you mean. Yes the DR is not much better but I'll take the extra resolution, high ISO and all the other features the 7D offers. I'm hoping Canon slows down with the megapixels and starts on the other stuff.

I also said I was curious why DXO was taking so long and the results would not make a difference to me, and it does not.
 
You can show me graphs until my head caves in, but when I see the images I get with my 7d, thats all they are is grafts. I'm more than happy with my 7D. Looking at their data it's no better than the 50D and I can tell you that my 7d and 50D are night and day performance wise...
 
Dynamic range is actually very good but SNR is worse than you and many others have been saying.

I have seen many of your posts about 7D and I realize that it is a great tool for those who need its futures but it does not appear to have great SNR in low ISO range. liquidstone was commenting on that as well.

--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
 
I have seen posts like yours many times. I have also seen those from people who were not happy. I did not like S/N results in ISO 200-800 range myself. That is why I waited for these tests with great anticipation. I was really tired of this subjective enthusiasm about IQ of 7D
--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
 
You returned yours, so why keep bashing it. Forget about it and let us who still love this camera enjoy what we have. Keep using whatever makes you happy. As simple as that.
 
I love my 20D and am still impressed by how well Canon designed and built it. I am equally impressed by how well its sensor fares when compared to the sensors in the recent DSLRs (especially on tests like DxO). However, the sensor alone doesn't account for the whole story. Even if Canon decided to replace the current sensor in the 7D with the old one from the 20D I would still be very interested in getting the 7D. Why? The list of improvements is quite long but let's name a few: the AF, the viewfinder, the LCD screen, the Live View, the maximum fps, flash, etc...

By the way, to avoid confusion, I am also certain (having seen the actual output) that the new sensor in the 7D is better than the sensor in the 20D.
 
I am not "bashing" it. It is a great camera.

I just want to understand what this camera is capable of and if crop cameras can go beyond certain level of S/N.

--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
 
Great features aside, my conclusion is that there is no real progress possible for crop sensors. Yes, they are getting better but increments are very small. Many indicated that 7D was a breakthrough as far as IQ is concerned.
--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan
 
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