Business Question. Please help.

Stormi · Sep 12, 2002

Okay I seldom post here because people typically don't respond, however I am a die hard reader of this forum because I learn alot from you people. My question, while somewhat naieve, is serious to me which is why I am coming to the experts on this forum.

My love of photography has carried over with my co-workers. There are now three of us who own c-700 cameras and are taking some fabulous pictures. One is being commissioned to take midget football pics, the other is doing some great studio shots of her new baby which look better than any studio I've seen, and I fall somewhere in the middle taking nature shots and occasional "human" ones.

We three are thinking of starting a part time business. I have searched the internet quite alot but am not finding the first hand information that I would like to find. Surely some of you have been in the same position as we find ourselves. Can anyone offer some good websites or even better some tips as to what you do as far as marketing your skills, pricing, finding customers, etc. Finding them doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as figuring out the proper way to go about starting up.

Thanks to anyone who responds.
--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

Psychephylax · Sep 12, 2002

Are you attempting to start a photography business?

If so, my guess is that you will be lacking tools to cover all the requests of your customers...

If you're only planning on using your 700's to do your shots they simply do not have enough resolution for the job. Then factor in professional studio lighting, time spend editing the photos to look "great" and it doesn't make much sense unless you're willing to update your gear (which will become outdated shortly) and invest a lot of time into the business...

That of course is my opinion :-/

Stormi said:
Okay I seldom post here because people typically don't respond,
however I am a die hard reader of this forum because I learn alot
from you people. My question, while somewhat naieve, is serious to
me which is why I am coming to the experts on this forum.
My love of photography has carried over with my co-workers. There
are now three of us who own c-700 cameras and are taking some
fabulous pictures. One is being commissioned to take midget
football pics, the other is doing some great studio shots of her
new baby which look better than any studio I've seen, and I fall
somewhere in the middle taking nature shots and occasional "human"
ones.
We three are thinking of starting a part time business. I have
searched the internet quite alot but am not finding the first hand
information that I would like to find. Surely some of you have been
in the same position as we find ourselves. Can anyone offer some
good websites or even better some tips as to what you do as far as
marketing your skills, pricing, finding customers, etc. Finding
them doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as figuring out the
proper way to go about starting up.

Thanks to anyone who responds.
--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

--
http://www.pbase.com/psychephylax

Proud owner: Oly 2040Z, 2100UZ, B-300, WCON-08, OM-4, Tokina 35-105mm/3.5-4.5, Tokina 28-200mm/3.5-5.8, Vivitar 285HV

Paul Moore · Sep 12, 2002

If you're looking for general business help try here:

http://www.sba.gov

Paul

Stormi · Sep 12, 2002

a part time photography business as in weekends...not like a portrait studio but somewhere in the middle. when taking pictures on shq we can do very crisp pictures up to 8x10, however i do plan in the future to add in a higher res camera.

we live in a small town where there is only one "studio" photgrapher and no one who does things like football pictures, dance recitals, family reunions, birthday parties etc.

we have photoshop 6 for editing, as well as a host of editing tools. at present we get our photos done through walmart.com for reasonable prices and very nice shots.

most people who don't have a c700 tend to disapprove of the resolution, but i see you have a 2100 which is roughly the same res. does your not produce good 8x10s?

i'm just looking for info from people who've actually done what i'm talking about.
thanks for your reply

Psychephylax said:
If so, my guess is that you will be lacking tools to cover all the
requests of your customers...

If you're only planning on using your 700's to do your shots they
simply do not have enough resolution for the job. Then factor in
professional studio lighting, time spend editing the photos to look
"great" and it doesn't make much sense unless you're willing to
update your gear (which will become outdated shortly) and invest a
lot of time into the business...

That of course is my opinion :-/

Stormi said:

Okay I seldom post here because people typically don't respond,
however I am a die hard reader of this forum because I learn alot
from you people. My question, while somewhat naieve, is serious to
me which is why I am coming to the experts on this forum.
My love of photography has carried over with my co-workers. There
are now three of us who own c-700 cameras and are taking some
fabulous pictures. One is being commissioned to take midget
football pics, the other is doing some great studio shots of her
new baby which look better than any studio I've seen, and I fall
somewhere in the middle taking nature shots and occasional "human"
ones.
We three are thinking of starting a part time business. I have
searched the internet quite alot but am not finding the first hand
information that I would like to find. Surely some of you have been
in the same position as we find ourselves. Can anyone offer some
good websites or even better some tips as to what you do as far as
marketing your skills, pricing, finding customers, etc. Finding
them doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as figuring out the
proper way to go about starting up.

Thanks to anyone who responds.
--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/psychephylax
Proud owner: Oly 2040Z, 2100UZ, B-300, WCON-08, OM-4, Tokina
35-105mm/3.5-4.5, Tokina 28-200mm/3.5-5.8, Vivitar 285HV

--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

ricky racer · Sep 12, 2002

Stormi,

Sounds just like what my daughter has recently done, although I dont have alot of info to share, what they (her and her boyfriend) are doing is shooting sports teams and reunion's , she is the "hustler" finding new deals, isn't phased by rejection ...

Im not up on what the c700 can do, but I'd be inclined to think you'll need more serious looking equipment in time, they are more and more "borrowing" my E-10, and then they hook to a laptop to show the photos and get the sale .... but they also have serious film equipment

My first web site deal, I shot the photo with a lil RIcho camera, it worked ok, images could have been alot better though, so I knew I needed better camera stuff, my toolbox now has 1 2100, 1 e100, an E-10 and Alien Bee's strobe lights (2) and I still have that lil Richo camera ...

I'll ask her if she found any internet info and forward it to you if relevent ....

Have Fun on you new adventure ....

Michael Meissner · Sep 12, 2002

Stormi said:
a part time photography business as in weekends...not like a
portrait studio but somewhere in the middle. when taking pictures
on shq we can do very crisp pictures up to 8x10, however i do plan
in the future to add in a higher res camera.
we live in a small town where there is only one "studio"
photgrapher and no one who does things like football pictures,
dance recitals, family reunions, birthday parties etc.
we have photoshop 6 for editing, as well as a host of editing
tools. at present we get our photos done through walmart.com for
reasonable prices and very nice shots.

Hmmm, I wonder if it is a close-knit town, whether people will feel they have to 'choose sides' betwen the studio photographer and you guys (if there were more than 1 photographer in town, it might not be an issue). It might make sense to join with him/her to do the low end stuff he/she isn't doing, or at least try not to make him/her feel threatened, since you are going after differenent niches.

That being said, I've heard the photography business is a hard one to break into (paritucularly with so many people having cameras). However as a part-time business, you wouldn't be depending on it for full time income. I've heard of people doing it with onsite printers so that people can get the instant gratification.

Roxie Killian · Sep 12, 2002

Hi Stormi

I worked for a professional wedding photographer for 6 years while I put myself through college (degree in Accounting) and then after a short stint in the accounting field, opened my own wedding photography shop which I operated for over 32 years and still do a little part time.

I really only have a few words of wisdom. You are looking at a business venture; that is what should be paramount in your mind (whether full or part time). The photography part is the easy part, however you will always want at least two cameras and business insurance should be one of your first purchases as well as the necessary licenses, sales tax registration, etc.

Additionally, partnerships are difficult. Do not undervalue your work and be professional at all times. You will find that the skill you need to develop most is your sales skills. That is what you will be doing more than 50% of your time. In addtion you will work a lot of weekends and a lot of evenings. It can be a very fun and rewarding profession. Good Luck

Ken
C-3030Z, C-2100UZ
. )

Stormi · Sep 12, 2002

I'm curious as to what you mean by "serious LOOKING" equipment. are you meaning that the c700 doesn't look professional so people would be put off by that or what?

I would appreciate any info your daughter could provide as far as websites or just her own personal advice. I don't want to get rich doing this. My friends and I are just having a good time and having found a market that is lacking, we are looking into filling that void.

Thanks a bunch!

ricky racer said:
Stormi,

Sounds just like what my daughter has recently done, although I
dont have alot of info to share, what they (her and her boyfriend)
are doing is shooting sports teams and reunion's , she is the
"hustler" finding new deals, isn't phased by rejection ...

Im not up on what the c700 can do, but I'd be inclined to think
you'll need more serious looking equipment in time, they are more
and more "borrowing" my E-10, and then they hook to a laptop to
show the photos and get the sale .... but they also have serious
film equipment

My first web site deal, I shot the photo with a lil RIcho camera,
it worked ok, images could have been alot better though, so I knew
I needed better camera stuff, my toolbox now has 1 2100, 1 e100, an
E-10 and Alien Bee's strobe lights (2) and I still have that lil
Richo camera ...

I'll ask her if she found any internet info and forward it to you
if relevent ....

Have Fun on you new adventure ....

--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

Lucy · Sep 12, 2002

May I suggest that you post some questions in the Pro Digital forum here...I have seen posts before asking about pricing and that sort of thing. Don't be put off by anyone, just give it a try and see if anything develops.....start off small. Check out photo sites and see what pros are selling their photos for and just remember you can't start at the top, so don't expect to get their prices. Who knows what can happen! Good Luck!
--
Lucy
Olympus C3020Z
pbase supporter http://www.pbase.com/lucy

ricky racer · Sep 12, 2002

Stormi said:
I'm curious as to what you mean by "serious LOOKING" equipment. are
you meaning that the c700 doesn't look professional so people would
be put off by that or what?

Yeah, maybe .... your not gonna cry are you?, in lookin at Phil's page http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Olympus/ I don't see your model there, so I just guess'd .... but if your finding the folks want what you can produce, whats wrong with that , I didn't mean to offend

Stormi said:
I would appreciate any info your daughter could provide as far as
websites or just her own personal advice. I don't want to get rich
doing this. My friends and I are just having a good time and having
found a market that is lacking, we are looking into filling that
void.

Heck, go for getting rich, it's much better then being poor, so I've been told .... I'll pick her mind over the weekend and post my finding's ....

Stormi said:
Thanks a bunch!

J Graves · Sep 12, 2002

These folks work the area soccer tournaments.
http://www.parkerphoto.com/
I suppose they try to shoot every team at least once.
They hand out flyers during the tournaments. All are on weekends.

They set up at the tournament and will print your pictures immediatley or you can order from their website.

Stormi said:
Okay I seldom post here because people typically don't respond,
however I am a die hard reader of this forum because I learn alot
from you people. My question, while somewhat naieve, is serious to
me which is why I am coming to the experts on this forum.
My love of photography has carried over with my co-workers. There
are now three of us who own c-700 cameras and are taking some
fabulous pictures. One is being commissioned to take midget
football pics, the other is doing some great studio shots of her
new baby which look better than any studio I've seen, and I fall
somewhere in the middle taking nature shots and occasional "human"
ones.
We three are thinking of starting a part time business. I have
searched the internet quite alot but am not finding the first hand
information that I would like to find. Surely some of you have been
in the same position as we find ourselves. Can anyone offer some
good websites or even better some tips as to what you do as far as
marketing your skills, pricing, finding customers, etc. Finding
them doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as figuring out the
proper way to go about starting up.

Thanks to anyone who responds.
--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

RichO · Sep 12, 2002

Stormi,

I believe you live in Texas. You should investigate creating a Limited Liability Company. Pretty easy to do and only cost $200 to file.

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/corp/forms/filingguide/html/llc.shtml

I have researched various opportunities for photography business and the following have come to the top:

1. Weddings: most profitable, most stress, most expensive to start

2. Events: good for part-time; you shoot events at organizations, parties, schools...having a dye-sub printer like the Olympus P-400 can really boost sales here....you might even be able to partner with a wedding studio that does not want to do the receptions. At the receptions some brides like the idea of having a photographer onsite to provide candid shots of guests...

3. Portraits: competive unless you have a twist that goes beyond the standard studio like onsite, or special environment.

4. Commercial: shots for ads, websites etc of businesses.

5. Stock Photography: mainly seek film based shots, but have read some take hi-res images

6. Self-Publish: calendars, greeting cards, screensavers, prints, etc.

I think you can "feel" out the market with your C700, but reality is that something like the D60 or Sony 717 will be minimum for more than 4x6 and limited 5x7. You can get "acceptable" 8x10 from the C700 and you actually stand a better chance with the IS and glass on the C2100UZ.

But in reality most people will purchase more 4x6 and 5x7 prints than anything especially onsite for an event.

You will want to get a good flash, tripod and dye-sub printer.

All of those things if purchased wisely can be used with upgraded cameras later.

Ah...BTW: I always try to answer your posts, especially since we are neighbors...but sometimes the posts move too fast.

And one more thing...just a bit of advice...drop all "loyalties" to a camera...when you go into business it has to do with what you can produce with what you have...and loyalty to a camera manufacturer or a camera is then misplaced. The camera is a tool...it MUST be able to yield the best photo you can produce for a client at the $$$ you want to charge.

--
RichO

San Antonio, TX
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
http://www.richo.org/LearningCenter/faq_olympus.htm
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'

Psychephylax · Sep 12, 2002

Stormi, I did not mean to put you off with my first reply...But as Rich has pointed out, relying on your C-700 is not going to be "sufficient" for needs of others...The key is to be a step or two ahead of your customer....So if, for example, you're shooting a soccer game and you manage to get someone scoring a championship winning goal...You get the shot with a C-700...but the parents come to you and say "We'll give you 150$ for a 30x20 print of that shot"....You won't get the sale because you can only provide an 8x10...You will probably get a sale of an 8x10 but you might only get 20$ for it...

Alternatively - Studio lighting for example...Someone comes to you and asks you to do a family portrait..You won't look very "professional" trying to light up the subject with some desk lamps...

Basically, Rich sums it all up very nicely and that is why I look up to him

waves to Rich

RichO said:
Stormi,
I believe you live in Texas. You should investigate creating a
Limited Liability Company. Pretty easy to do and only cost $200 to
file.

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/corp/forms/filingguide/html/llc.shtml

I have researched various opportunities for photography business
and the following have come to the top:

1. Weddings: most profitable, most stress, most expensive to start

2. Events: good for part-time; you shoot events at organizations,
parties, schools...having a dye-sub printer like the Olympus P-400
can really boost sales here....you might even be able to partner
with a wedding studio that does not want to do the receptions. At
the receptions some brides like the idea of having a photographer
onsite to provide candid shots of guests...

3. Portraits: competive unless you have a twist that goes beyond
the standard studio like onsite, or special environment.

4. Commercial: shots for ads, websites etc of businesses.

5. Stock Photography: mainly seek film based shots, but have read
some take hi-res images

6. Self-Publish: calendars, greeting cards, screensavers, prints, etc.

I think you can "feel" out the market with your C700, but reality
is that something like the D60 or Sony 717 will be minimum for more
than 4x6 and limited 5x7. You can get "acceptable" 8x10 from the
C700 and you actually stand a better chance with the IS and glass
on the C2100UZ.

But in reality most people will purchase more 4x6 and 5x7 prints
than anything especially onsite for an event.

You will want to get a good flash, tripod and dye-sub printer.

All of those things if purchased wisely can be used with upgraded
cameras later.

Ah...BTW: I always try to answer your posts, especially since we
are neighbors...but sometimes the posts move too fast.

And one more thing...just a bit of advice...drop all "loyalties" to
a camera...when you go into business it has to do with what you can
produce with what you have...and loyalty to a camera manufacturer
or a camera is then misplaced. The camera is a tool...it MUST be
able to yield the best photo you can produce for a client at the
$$$ you want to charge.

--
RichO
San Antonio, TX
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
http://www.richo.org/LearningCenter/faq_olympus.htm
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'

--
http://www.pbase.com/psychephylax

Proud owner: Oly 2040Z, 2100UZ, B-300, WCON-08, OM-4, Tokina 35-105mm/3.5-4.5, Tokina 28-200mm/3.5-5.8, Vivitar 285HV

Sandman · Sep 12, 2002

Stormi,

I have no experience with this, but did read through all the replies to your question and it looks like you got some very useful information. I am seeing more and more demand for "event" photography: the birthday parties, family reunions, class reunions, grand openings, etc. When I took my last trip to the beach, there was a "professional" photographer who did nothing but family portraits on the beach! What a niche!

I think some are finding that they do want good images of an event, but do not want to be tied to the camera to take them. This seems like the place to start....and branch out from there. Rich gave some practical advice as to what items you need to purchase first. That dye-sub printer is a great idea.

Best of luck!

jim

wrote:

Stormi said:
Okay I seldom post here because people typically don't respond,
however I am a die hard reader of this forum because I learn alot
from you people. My question, while somewhat naieve, is serious to
me which is why I am coming to the experts on this forum.
My love of photography has carried over with my co-workers. There
are now three of us who own c-700 cameras and are taking some
fabulous pictures. One is being commissioned to take midget
football pics, the other is doing some great studio shots of her
new baby which look better than any studio I've seen, and I fall
somewhere in the middle taking nature shots and occasional "human"
ones.
We three are thinking of starting a part time business. I have
searched the internet quite alot but am not finding the first hand
information that I would like to find. Surely some of you have been
in the same position as we find ourselves. Can anyone offer some
good websites or even better some tips as to what you do as far as
marketing your skills, pricing, finding customers, etc. Finding
them doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as figuring out the
proper way to go about starting up.

Thanks to anyone who responds.
--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

--
galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/sandman3
critiques at PhotoSig: http://www.photosig.com/userphotos.php?id=15764

RichO · Sep 12, 2002

I hope I am not asked to change my nickname because it is so similiar to Ricoh.

--
RichO

San Antonio, TX
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
http://www.richo.org/LearningCenter/faq_olympus.htm
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'

ricky racer · Sep 12, 2002

heck, I dunno, you can keep it , the name that is, im keeping the camera, when I bought it, 6-8 years ago, it cost 600 bucks, can't use it in teh sun and makes crappy photos, but thats what they had back then ....

Stormi · Sep 12, 2002

A big thank you to all who responded. I did get some very useful information. I want to make it very clear that I'm not in the market to be a studio pro. Just some sideline jobs here and there to sharpen my skills and make a little pocket cash for new goodies. As I said, I live in a small town of around 5000 ppl. There is only one pro photographer here and her pictures suck and she's far too busy to deal with menial little things like "event" photos.

I had read somewhere that one couple had set up a system where one of them took the photos (or two) at events and they had a laptop setup where they could download the pics onto it and people could take a look and place orders and then the ppl ordered out prints from an online printhouse.
It just sounded like a good idea that is not market flooded yet.

Again thanks for all the good replies. And as for the camera I'm using....gotta sell some pics before I can upgrade to a BIG one!

Sandman said:
I have no experience with this, but did read through all the
replies to your question and it looks like you got some very useful
information. I am seeing more and more demand for "event"
photography: the birthday parties, family reunions, class reunions,
grand openings, etc. When I took my last trip to the beach, there
was a "professional" photographer who did nothing but family
portraits on the beach! What a niche!

I think some are finding that they do want good images of an event,
but do not want to be tied to the camera to take them. This seems
like the place to start....and branch out from there. Rich gave
some practical advice as to what items you need to purchase first.
That dye-sub printer is a great idea.

Best of luck!

jim

wrote:

Sandman said:

Okay I seldom post here because people typically don't respond,
however I am a die hard reader of this forum because I learn alot
from you people. My question, while somewhat naieve, is serious to
me which is why I am coming to the experts on this forum.
My love of photography has carried over with my co-workers. There
are now three of us who own c-700 cameras and are taking some
fabulous pictures. One is being commissioned to take midget
football pics, the other is doing some great studio shots of her
new baby which look better than any studio I've seen, and I fall
somewhere in the middle taking nature shots and occasional "human"
ones.
We three are thinking of starting a part time business. I have
searched the internet quite alot but am not finding the first hand
information that I would like to find. Surely some of you have been
in the same position as we find ourselves. Can anyone offer some
good websites or even better some tips as to what you do as far as
marketing your skills, pricing, finding customers, etc. Finding
them doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as figuring out the
proper way to go about starting up.

Thanks to anyone who responds.
--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

Click to expand...

--
galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/sandman3
critiques at PhotoSig: http://www.photosig.com/userphotos.php?id=15764

--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

Dan Brown · Sep 12, 2002

This is what I have been doing for various sporting events. I have been around kid athletics for a long time and know most of the parents, league officials etc. It started out with baseball and has now moved to football. This is the site that I use.
http://www.danbrown.photoreflect.com
I am shooting my pics with a Uzi + b300.

Stormi said:
Okay I seldom post here because people typically don't respond,
however I am a die hard reader of this forum because I learn alot
from you people. My question, while somewhat naieve, is serious to
me which is why I am coming to the experts on this forum.
My love of photography has carried over with my co-workers. There
are now three of us who own c-700 cameras and are taking some
fabulous pictures. One is being commissioned to take midget
football pics, the other is doing some great studio shots of her
new baby which look better than any studio I've seen, and I fall
somewhere in the middle taking nature shots and occasional "human"
ones.
We three are thinking of starting a part time business. I have
searched the internet quite alot but am not finding the first hand
information that I would like to find. Surely some of you have been
in the same position as we find ourselves. Can anyone offer some
good websites or even better some tips as to what you do as far as
marketing your skills, pricing, finding customers, etc. Finding
them doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as figuring out the
proper way to go about starting up.

Thanks to anyone who responds.
--
Stormi I'm not great, but I'm havin' a good time!
C-700 UltraZoom

http://www.pbase.com/stormi007
http://community.webshots.com/user/stormi007

--
Dan Brown
http://www.pbase.com/wheatenman

'If nothing changes, nothing changes'

RichO · Sep 12, 2002

Hi Dan,

Can you tell us more about the site? What is the cost per month, how does it work? etc?

--
RichO

San Antonio, TX
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
http://www.richo.org/LearningCenter/faq_olympus.htm
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'

Dan Brown · Sep 12, 2002

It has worked out pretty good for me. You give them 15% of your gross sale. You can set it up so prints are done for you and mailed directly to your customer, or they contact with the sale information, you print and ship. Pretty flexible. I still sell most of my stuff at the event but put this up for follow up business and relatives that live out of town. I am trying it out for 6 months to see how it works. I've almost got enough saved up to buy some new equipment (Canon D60 70-200 2.8 IS L). Should have it by the end of October. Not bad for just a little part time thing.

RichO said:
Hi Dan,
Can you tell us more about the site? What is the cost per month,
how does it work? etc?

--
RichO
San Antonio, TX
http://www.pbase.com/richo/
http://www.richo.org/LearningCenter/faq_olympus.htm
'Life is a dance, Love is the music.'

--
Dan Brown
http://www.pbase.com/wheatenman

'If nothing changes, nothing changes'

Business Question. Please help.

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