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Will we see a 24p firmware hack for 5D Mark II?

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Canon rushed out the 5D II after nikon made the video announcement. So they've released a firmware quickly and now their engineers are focused on the next camera and therefore they will not spend any time on 5D II anymore.

Basically, once you buy a canon product, pretty much forget any real upgrade via firmware, unless there is a bug or an update to an intentional omission.

So let's hope someone comes up with a good hack.
 
Surely if the option is now available in the 7D it's just a matter of porting the code across to the 5D2? I'm no software engineer but you'd think the two cameras would share a similar code base?
 
Guy Lerner said:
Surely if the option is now available in the 7D it's just a matter of porting the code across to the 5D2? I'm no software engineer but you'd think the two cameras would share a similar code base?
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I did use to manage a team of software engineers. You're right for the most part, however, you got to keep in mind, canon's tight product cycle schedule.

In theory it's a simple port, but canon is a large company. Someone has to put all the requirements and then hand it to engineers, get a project manager, schedule Q/A time and etc. and it would suck up several months of their engineers and product management time and could cause delay on 60D, 5D II, next version of rebel etc. Or even from products we have not seen yet, like a small ASP-C PS camera.

So you are right, it's an easy port compare to doing it from scratch, but canon has to make an ROI call on it. Perhaps, if 5D sales are falling in favor of 7D (and I bet 5D is more profitable for them) then they might give it more consideration. Also if users clamor for it enough the management might put some resources against it. To me the most likely option might a fix for PAL countries and we might get a 25p

This all assumes all the changes can be done via firmware, and there is no strange hardware clock cycle or something that would make it next to impossible.
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semorg said:
In theory it's a simple port, but canon is a large company. Someone has to put all the requirements and then hand it to engineers, get a project manager, schedule Q/A time and etc.
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I´m sure they did already. There a just too many rumors of film crews using such a firmware on their locations.

The question is if such a firmware (and actually we do not know about the limitations – i.e. no picture taking - of these rumored 24fps firmware’s) will it ever make into the mass market (code quality, manuals to be updated etc.) or if such a firmware is available only on "special request", for "special projects" Canon has a certain marketing interest ( "…the B camera used for this was an EOS 5D MKII…" ) in.

Cheers,
Svenson
 
Svenson said:
semorg said:
In theory it's a simple port, but canon is a large company. Someone has to put all the requirements and then hand it to engineers, get a project manager, schedule Q/A time and etc.
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I´m sure they did already. There a just too many rumors of film crews using such a firmware on their locations.

The question is if such a firmware (and actually we do not know about the limitations – i.e. no picture taking - of these rumored 24fps firmware’s) will it ever make into the mass market (code quality, manuals to be updated etc.) or if such a firmware is available only on "special request", for "special projects" Canon has a certain marketing interest ( "…the B camera used for this was an EOS 5D MKII…" ) in.

Cheers,
Svenson
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I've seen some of these rumors too. However, for all we know, the particular firmware might have been apple's way of testing 7D features on the existing 5D II without having to build and hand out prototype 7Ds. With the goal of having film makers test 7D features and functions. Which to your point it would require them to create a whole new set of documentation for the new firmware.

In the history of canon, I've yet to see canon add a major features to a camera via firmware.

Unless we go to extreme ends, and complain endlessly and tell canon we will discourage anyone from buying a 5D II without this feature and causing them a drop in sales, it will be rather unlikely for them to provide this-but I hope I'm wrong.
 
yeah, also in those rumours about the 5D is the fact that the firmware would lock up the camera running in 24/25p ..

I do believe it's a hack .. where are those frames going?

(not only that .. how IS canon even doing it with the 7D .. if the liveview stream is still 30 fps .. how's the video stream coming out at 24fps? frame dropping? or 29.97 fps? .. or 60 fps?)

morbidly curious how canon even implemented this.

actually morbidly curious on how canon implements liveview .. it can't be a complete sensor readout on a frame by frame basis.
 
The only chance of having canon devote engineers in porting the code for the 5D II is either after 1DIV release or 60D and if they have some resourced to put on it. Again if it's even possible.

If you really want 24P on your 5D is to blog and write about it and ask everyone not to buy the 5D II before it has 24/25 P support
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If everyone boycotted buying the 5DmkII that would get Canons attention to maybe they'd do something. But, nobody would ever do it, we all want our toys yesterday.

If Canon did listen, they'd sell more units I'd think. But regardless, they're trying to keep up with demand in sales, so their market dept is winning in the end.

Incremental features to tease the masses and guarantee consistent future sales by not blowing their whole load on one camera. Its shame, but its business, all about the $$$.

my 2 cents,
dave
 
one eYed monster said:
If everyone boycotted buying the 5DmkII that would get Canons attention to maybe they'd do something. But, nobody would ever do it, we all want our toys yesterday.

If Canon did listen, they'd sell more units I'd think. But regardless, they're trying to keep up with demand in sales, so their market dept is winning in the end.

Incremental features to tease the masses and guarantee consistent future sales by not blowing their whole load on one camera. Its shame, but its business, all about the $$$.

my 2 cents,
dave
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Dave you're correct. Canon is running a business nothing more or less and thus the decision will be purely financial against cost their future products and basic ROI.

We can never boycott 100%, but with enough replies to potential buyers' question of 5D II vs 7D with an answer like: 7D unless canon fixes the 5D II video, might be the only way to get them focus on this fix.
 
Barugon said:
Ah, so you have a real reason there instead of just some ridiculous notion of how it's "more pleasing".
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I don't think the notion is ridiculous. Even if we remove the acculturation to 24p through cinema, (which may be impossible) there are certainly rhythms, beats, shapes and colors that people tend to prefer.

The golden ratio comes to mind as an example of something which, on the surface may seem like a random preference, but which, with it's proportions driven by the Fibonacci sequence, seems deeply routed in our collective aesthetic.

And, consider this - many, many photographers prefer black and white to color, even though color clearly conveys a greater amount of information. Why?

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Whether Canon devotes resources to this or some third party creates a hack, if it is possible, someone will work out the code.

In fact, the 7D may be helpful here. If Canon cannot spend time porting the code (which would be a shame) it may be helpful to a third party.

The funny (and potentially sad) thing is that usually hackers do this sort of thing to make the cheaper product do what the more expensive item does, not the other way around.

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Ken Phillips said:
Firstly, put on a manual lens, and there ya go ... secondly, where DO ya go?
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????????????????? The cost of buying another lens versus a free software upgrade? I don't know WHAT you are talking about here.
Ken Phillips said:
Can you shoot f/1.4 or f/2.0 ... or even f/2.8 or f/4.0 ... at 100 ISO with 1/130th shutter speed IN THE SUN?
Not without serious ND filters.
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Soooooo....that is a knock against manual control...how?...again?

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Katsoulis said:
Whether Canon devotes resources to this or some third party creates a hack, if it is possible, someone will work out the code.

In fact, the 7D may be helpful here. If Canon cannot spend time porting the code (which would be a shame) it may be helpful to a third party.

The funny (and potentially sad) thing is that usually hackers do this sort of thing to make the cheaper product do what the more expensive item does, not the other way around.
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7D is dual digic system, and I believe 5D II only has one digic. Not sure if it's only important or high frame rates or is the dual digic makes a difference for video. But that said, it would mean most of 7D firmware is designed around threading the work between to processors and it may not at all be useful for the 5D II.

I just bought a 5D II but I'm not thinking of selling it and getting a 7D.
 
Its RKM said:
osirisioux said:
For the number of people I know who accidentally have "MotionFlow" or similar technology enabled on their TVs and say, "this TV makes my movies look terrible! They look like they were shot on a camcorder!" without knowing why, I'd say 24p makes more of a psychological difference to a viewer than this article postulates... And that 24p will be around for a good while.

Although, whether we are merely "programmed" by experience to see 24p as being a richer and more subjective viewing experience, or whether there is inherently something in holding back those 6 frames per second that makes the human mind more apt to suspend its disbelief at the alternate reality it sees played out before it, is a valid question.

I guess it would be interesting to see what someone growing up in the UK, being used to seeing everything in 25fps, thinks of video shot in 30p...
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I have lived in the UK most of my life and watch most video on 25fps, whether speeded up 24fps or interlaced 50fields-ps.

For the past 25 years I have regularly travelled to the USA - typical 3 or 4, but often up to 8, times a year usually on business but occasionally on vacation too. For most of that time I thought the picture quality of the US TV 30/60Hz system was a joke and was surprised you people put up with it. It is only in the last couple of years, with the proliferation of HDTV on hotel TVs that I feel you have actually achieved an acceptable level of image quality on your TV. Production and content is another matter, but that is US culture: "it would be a good idea".

I also remember the complaints when, in the late 1980s, the TV series "Dallas" switched from being shot on film to video. It became 30fps 60i video converted to 25fps 50i PAL whilst previous series had been 24fps film speeded up to 25fps 50i PAL. The BBC, who screened the show in the UK, telephone exchange was blocked with viewers complaining about the image quality. Now, you can argue that this was a consequence of the conversion quality, but the simple fact is that this showed the limitations of 30fps video to the masses and it wasn't acceptable to the millions that had experienced better.
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Amen! I hear you brother........ but I fear your wise words will fall upon the multitude who all know better than you....
Its RKM said:
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Its RKM
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Praise be to Sony for saving the A mount.
 
semorg said:
Canon rushed out the 5D II after nikon made the video announcement.
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Do a search, and you'll see dozens or perhaps hundreds of messages from crybabies, whining and throwing tantrums that Canon was taking far, far too long to debut a successor to the 5D.

So, uh, which is it?
 
DotCom Editor said:
semorg said:
Canon rushed out the 5D II after nikon made the video announcement.
Click to expand...
Do a search, and you'll see dozens or perhaps hundreds of messages from crybabies, whining and throwing tantrums that Canon was taking far, far too long to debut a successor to the 5D.

So, uh, which is it?
Click to expand...
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As a re minder the topic of this thread is around video on 5D II.

That said, I based my judgement purely on the evidence of video functionality on 5D II when it was first launched and how canon has been trying to remedy some of its short comings. Some of them so obvious that I can only think it was rushed out, not to mention how it came in tail of Nikon's announcement of their video support.
 
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