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DP2 vs E-P1 high ISO

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Raist3d wrote:
.....
Member said:
I think the whole point is not that the E-P1 is better at everything
over the Dp2, but that it does bring many advantages and yes, I think
it will make a dent in its sales.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but my impression is that the DP1/DP2 cameras have appealed and still appeal -- outside of the Sigma DSLR users -- to users of large Canon DSLRs like the 5D -- who want small size and portability while maintaining a decent level of fine detail capture. That's the market I see for the DP1 and DP2 not point and shoot market that wants to move up.

We'll see if such Canon (or Nikon) users go over in droves from a DP1 or DP2 which is a compact which does fit in a pocket to an Olympus-brand camera system for which they'd buy multiple lenses to tote around. Plus the accessories and flash. BTW the DP1 on-board flash is definitely useful for casual photos and fill light situations.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
 
Raist3d wrote:
.....deteted text for brevity as I'm just addressing this point
Member said:
So to think it's actually $900 USD with the optical view finder,
that's quite the change, imho. And that's comparing MSRP of now vs
street price of the DP2.
Click to expand...
....

sure looks like on Amazon it's $899.99 without any viewfinder ... just the 17mm lens. So that's the lens that roughly equivalent to the DP1 (16.6mm lens) at $444 last I looked on Amazon. I bought a DP1 viewfinder after using the camera for about a year for $135. It would be tough to go back to no flash at all (Oly) so add a flash cost.

What does the viewfinder sell for?

DP2's is I think slightly more than the DP1's ... I see listed one retailer as $179.

BTW, I'm on the verge of hitting the purchase button on a DP2... I have major photo opportunities coming up later this month (the Folklife Festival in Washington, DC). The DP1 I found last year at 16.6mm lens is just really too wide. I use my DSLR(s) primarily but I could have good use for the DP2 instead of the DP1.

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
 
It doesn't seem very useful to me. Anything more than a metre or so away has lots of light fall off; probably typical of the tiny flashes.
SandyF said:
SandyF said:
I think the whole point is not that the E-P1 is better at everything
over the Dp2, but that it does bring many advantages and yes, I think
it will make a dent in its sales.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but my impression is that the DP1/DP2 cameras have appealed
and still appeal -- outside of the Sigma DSLR users -- to users of
large Canon DSLRs like the 5D -- who want small size and portability
while maintaining a decent level of fine detail capture. That's the
market I see for the DP1 and DP2 not point and shoot market that
wants to move up.

We'll see if such Canon (or Nikon) users go over in droves from a DP1
or DP2 which is a compact which does fit in a pocket to an
Olympus-brand camera system for which they'd buy multiple lenses to
tote around. Plus the accessories and flash. BTW the DP1 on-board
flash is definitely useful for casual photos and fill light
situations.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
Click to expand...
--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm
 
prices clearly vary. Here the Dp2 costs £599 and the Ep1 is launching (cheapest option) at £699.
SandyF said:
SandyF said:
So to think it's actually $900 USD with the optical view finder,
that's quite the change, imho. And that's comparing MSRP of now vs
street price of the DP2.
Click to expand...
....
sure looks like on Amazon it's $899.99 without any viewfinder ...
just the 17mm lens. So that's the lens that roughly equivalent to the
DP1 (16.6mm lens) at $444 last I looked on Amazon. I bought a DP1
viewfinder after using the camera for about a year for $135. It would
be tough to go back to no flash at all (Oly) so add a flash cost.

What does the viewfinder sell for?
DP2's is I think slightly more than the DP1's ... I see listed one
retailer as $179.

BTW, I'm on the verge of hitting the purchase button on a DP2... I
have major photo opportunities coming up later this month (the
Folklife Festival in Washington, DC). The DP1 I found last year at
16.6mm lens is just really too wide. I use my DSLR(s) primarily but I
could have good use for the DP2 instead of the DP1.

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
Click to expand...
--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm
 
DMillier said:
It doesn't seem very useful to me. Anything more than a metre or so
away has lots of light fall off; probably typical of the tiny flashes.
Click to expand...
Personally I use the flash a lot around the dining table, across the living room at my mother-in-laws often when we visit. I can light her living room satisfactorily with just the on-board. Have you tried putting up the ISO to ISO200 or ISO400 and flash? I find that works well at my mother-in-law's place. If you do ISO100 you can get the background darkness + pool of light effect... a higher ISO I personally find better with DP1 flash in my usage.

I just hate to carry and attach a separate flash. One of the joys to me of SD14 over the SD10 was the on-board flash ;-)
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
 
I find a decent SLR onboard flash occasionally useful for fill with outdoor portraits but I don't do that sort of thing much so it's minor interest. i do have a proper bounce/swivel flash for my Canon which works really well for soft, flattering indoor portraits.

I would never bother with the DP1; I've already concluded it's a good portable tripod camera but for handheld work it drives me nuts. I just can't be bothered with it as a P&S.

EP1 looks more promising in this regard but the lack of an eyelevel viewfinder would bug me. It, like the DP1, looks to me best suited as tripod camera for landscape field use. Carrying a tripod is a lot less irksome if your camera and lenses fit in a couple of pockets!
SandyF said:
DMillier said:
It doesn't seem very useful to me. Anything more than a metre or so
away has lots of light fall off; probably typical of the tiny flashes.
Click to expand...
Personally I use the flash a lot around the dining table, across the
living room at my mother-in-laws often when we visit. I can light her
living room satisfactorily with just the on-board. Have you tried
putting up the ISO to ISO200 or ISO400 and flash? I find that works
well at my mother-in-law's place. If you do ISO100 you can get the
background darkness + pool of light effect... a higher ISO I
personally find better with DP1 flash in my usage.
I just hate to carry and attach a separate flash. One of the joys
to me of SD14 over the SD10 was the on-board flash ;-)
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
Click to expand...
--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm
 
With the zoom is the cheapest price I've seen here so far.
SandyF said:
DMillier said:
prices clearly vary. Here the Dp2 costs £599 and the Ep1 is launching
(cheapest option) at £699.
Click to expand...
US$ Amazon and other standard US retailers carry DP2 at US$649 and
free shipping.

EP1: By "cheapest option" is that with or without a lens??

Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (newest photos)
Click to expand...
--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm
 
DMillier said:
One thing m4/3 can do is mount a very wide range of other lenses.
There seems to be a thriving industry in making adapters for Leica M
lenses, Zeiss lenses etc etc for people who like playing with such
oddities.
Click to expand...
I know, can you imagine, like sticking a screwmount Pentax on the front of a Sigma SD body? Absolute silliness :))

The folks at Olympus -are- smart, I'll give them that, they are giving everyone exactly what they are asking for (for a price!). I think that the EP-1 will do them well. It is not a DP killer, they are vastly different tools for different types of craftsmen.

--
-BC
 
DMillier - i just think its funny compare the, how old is it now DP1, to the new EP1?
DavidMillier said:
wrote:
I find a decent SLR onboard flash occasionally useful for fill with
outdoor portraits but I don't do that sort of thing much so it's
minor interest. i do have a proper bounce/swivel flash for my Canon
which works really well for soft, flattering indoor portraits.

I would never bother with the DP1; I've already concluded it's a good
portable tripod camera but for handheld work it drives me nuts. I
just can't be bothered with it as a P&S.

EP1 looks more promising in this regard but the lack of an eyelevel
viewfinder would bug me. It, like the DP1, looks to me best suited as
tripod camera for landscape field use. Carrying a tripod is a lot
less irksome if your camera and lenses fit in a couple of pockets!
Click to expand...
Michael
 
Roland Karlsson said:
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
Roland Karlsson said:
darn, my DP2 has some real competition here...
Click to expand...
Where? You just posted links to DSLR images. The DP-2 is a
companion camera to a DSLR, not a replacement.
Click to expand...
The EP1 is a small system camera. Therefore it replaces both your
DSLR and your DP2 - without saying if it does it good or badly. But
thats the concept. I find that concept an interesting one.

With the 17 mm pancake lens you get a very small camera. It is then
only slightly larger and heavier than the DP2.

The DP2 advantage is then only the Foveon imager. For anyone that
thinks that is important, then EP1 is of course not an alternative.

But the concept is clear - and it is a strong one.

Now - make an X3 version of this camera. Think about it! Would it not
be nice if Olympus had bought Foveon? They have some style and some
inventive drive.

--
Roland
Click to expand...
Roland, my good friend, you are so right on some of these points, yet...

You are right in that the Oly is intended to be a system camera. Whether or not Olympus views it as an adjunct or an alternative to the E-series is unclear to me. Most will view it as an alternative, but then, alas, it is still not a DSLR. In no way will it be able to replace a DSLR in your kit, no more than a DP series camera can.

I do disagree that the DP series advantage is now just the Foveon sensor. I see some explicit things that represent a different design philosophy, some of these may be advantages for some photographers. The nice manual focus implementation in the DP1/2, the excellent integral lenses, the still smaller/lighter form, integral flash, simpler handling. I think the DP1 and DP2 hold their own in many ways.

And yes, they have the peerless Foveon sensor in them as well :)

But you know, just like me, that at the end of the day, with an SD card full of images, the ones that make you go "wow" will, of course, have little to do with which camera you clicked to make the shot. For me, I suspect that a DP1 or DP2 would end up giving more satisfying results, but that the Oly would probably be a comfortable and easy camera to live with as well.

Thanks as always for the opportunity for lively discussion!

Best Regards,
Bill C.
Henderson, NV



Panasonic FZ-1
 
DMillier said:
Uk price from warehouseexpress

DP2 without viewfinder £599

EP-1 with zoom £699

Ep-1 with prime £749 (does the kit include the viewfinder)?
Click to expand...
Yes- at least in the USA.
DavidMillier said:
The DP1 is £479 with viewfinder so you would need to spend £1079 to
get 28mm and 41mm FOV vs £699 to get 28-84 coverage.

I think price wise the oly wins hands down when flexibility is
factored in.

Sigma's advantage remains the Foveon sensor for those who find that
compelling. As with their DSLRs it's all about the sensor because
frankly, they can't make camera bodies.
Raist3d said:
So to think it's actually $900 USD with the optical view finder,
that's quite the change, imho. And that's comparing MSRP of now vs
street price of the DP2.

How much is the DP2 with optical view finder?
Tulaev said:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_84594251_1?ie=UTF8&plgroup=1&docId=1000389481&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=auto-sparkle&pf_rd_r=16RFEZ05MAXQ1X0AB1PT&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=481917031&pf_rd_i=e-p1
--
Igor Tulaev
St.Petersburg, Russia

Click to expand...
--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which
there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'
Click to expand...
--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm
Click to expand...
--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'
 
SandyF said:
SandyF said:
So to think it's actually $900 USD with the optical view finder,
that's quite the change, imho. And that's comparing MSRP of now vs
street price of the DP2.
Click to expand...
....
sure looks like on Amazon it's $899.99 without any viewfinder ...
Click to expand...
The official announced prices do include view finder. Amazon sometimes is known to not get the information quite right on new items, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. The USA prime kit does include the optical view finder.
SandyF said:
just the 17mm lens. So that's the lens that roughly equivalent to the
DP1 (16.6mm lens) at $444 last I looked on Amazon. I bought a DP1
viewfinder after using the camera for about a year for $135. It would
be tough to go back to no flash at all (Oly) so add a flash cost.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't be tough at all. But you can get the flash for $99 in an instant store rebate if you buy it together.
SandyF said:
What does the viewfinder sell for?
DP2's is I think slightly more than the DP1's ... I see listed one
retailer as $179.
Click to expand...
Again, you do get the view finder in the prime kit lens.
SandyF said:
BTW, I'm on the verge of hitting the purchase button on a DP2... I
have major photo opportunities coming up later this month (the
Folklife Festival in Washington, DC). The DP1 I found last year at
16.6mm lens is just really too wide. I use my DSLR(s) primarily but I
could have good use for the DP2 instead of the DP1.
Click to expand...
And someone could buy the E-P1 with a zoom lens + prime kit for the price of both Sigmas, carry only one camera and less volume.
SandyF said:
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
Click to expand...
--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'
 
SandyF said:
SandyF said:
I think the whole point is not that the E-P1 is better at everything
over the Dp2, but that it does bring many advantages and yes, I think
it will make a dent in its sales.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but my impression is that the DP1/DP2 cameras have appealed
and still appeal -- outside of the Sigma DSLR users -- to users of
large Canon DSLRs like the 5D -- who want small size and portability
while maintaining a decent level of fine detail capture. That's the
market I see for the DP1 and DP2 not point and shoot market that
wants to move up.
Click to expand...
What makes you think the Olympus E-P1 doesn't appeal to Canon & Nikon users with big cameras? Even Nikon's ByThom (Thom) stopped by the Olympus forum showing great interest in the E-P1, as well as many Canon/Nikon users. There is a particular thread on that.
SandyF said:
We'll see if such Canon (or Nikon) users go over in droves from a DP1
or DP2 which is a compact which does fit in a pocket to an
Olympus-brand camera system for which they'd buy multiple lenses to
tote around. Plus the accessories and flash. BTW the DP1 on-board
flash is definitely useful for casual photos and fill light
situations.
Click to expand...
A better question is simply which Canon and Nikon users will go in droves, that never bought a DP1 or DP2. But even right in this forum you can see Sigma DPx owners interested, so in this forum if you have Sigma owners interested, it's easy to imagine Canon/Nikon users.
SandyF said:
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
Click to expand...
--
Raist3d (Photographer & Tools/Systems/Gui Games Developer)
Andreas Feininger (1906-1999) 'Photographers — idiots, of which there are
so many — say, “Oh, if only I had a Nikon or a Leica, I could make great
photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'
 
It's not that far off in size and light path geometry. Sigma is in the 4/3 consortium, so they have some experience with the sensor size and optics in general.

There's a possibility that Oly and Panny will want to keep M43 to themselves, but IMHO, a DP with M4/3 mount wouldn't threaten either of them, it would probably increase interest in the format with an additional option.

A lot of people would love to have a Foveon option, including me.

Would current DP1/2 owners be interested in swapping a bit more size for a lot more glass options?
 
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