500D AF - good as ever :)

brightcolours · Mar 25, 2009

JohnMaij said:
ohyva said:

Was this a photo taken by you?
So you know there is no AF-lock + recompose done.

Click to expand...

--

The a person you replied to pointed out something to you that seemingly is way over your head: Focus, then recompose.

Wow, what a concept (I use that with just about 90% of all photos I make).

So, if you think focussing and then "recomposing" is an "issue", then yes, I agree, most samples show the same "issue".

sigh

Ehrik · Mar 25, 2009

Torque124 said:
I had a 300D, 350D,400D, 30D and now a 5Dmk2 and let me tell you...
problem is behind the viewfinder...

Trying a few samples doesn't tell you anything about someone elses camera if it's sample variation at work. I don't think anyone claims all cameras or even a majority have AF issues.

Torque124 said:
There is no cam to make up for lack of skills...

If it's lack of skill, how come calibration sometimes solves the problem? How come returning the body and buying another sometimes helps? How come people can have one body that works, e.g. the 400D and then get an 450D and it doesn't?

Torque124 said:
Want focus adjustment?

Yes.

Torque124 said:
Get a 50D!

Unnecessarily big and heavy. And I'd rather spend the money on glass.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

pepi_74 · Mar 25, 2009

Autofocus adjustment

As well as having a comparatively sophisticated autofocus system, the E-30 has probably the most adjustable AF setup we've yet encountered. It's possible to fine-tune every AF point individually. With separate settings for wide-angle end and the telephoto-end if it's a zoom lens. And, not only can different values be specified for every lens you own (by serial number, so you can compensate for differing behavior between two copies of the same lens), you can also set up multiple presets, just in case you find out your lens behaves differently at different focusing distances.

--

Photato · Mar 25, 2009

brightcolours said:
Photato said:

I'm not new to photography and I know how the AF in a DSLR works.
So is true Canon needs to include a Focus calibration in every DSLR
they make.
I lost a gig due to this AF problem and Canon is losing $ having to
adjust calibrate lots of DSLRs.

It is disappointing to see the 500D with no focus calibration.

Click to expand...

Micro step AF adjustment is NOT focus calibration at all.

You are wrong.

brightcolours said:
The 350D does NOT front focus, it is simply not super accurate in AF,
and it will equally back focus, and also hit focus right on.

How you dare to challenge my and CANON very own veredict on my 350 50mm.
Do you think I got my first camera yesterday. LOL
It is FRONT FOCUSING and it has never BACK FOCUS or NAILED ANY PICTURE. !!!!
ZERO ZERO ZERO photos are within focus, and all FRONT FOCUSING !!!!!!

brightcolours said:
If you want it to be more precise, then do get it calibrated. And no,
the 450D does NOT AF the same as a 350D. It is much more accurate. I
have used both extensively.

The 450 has to be more precise because of the increased pixels.

But so what, I will never accept any DSLR costing more that compact Digicams that focus worst than $50 Optekas from walmart.

Ehrik · Mar 25, 2009

The entry model E-630 has it too. And ironically, it seems Oly needs it less than Canon.

After the mk 3 AF problems, one would have thought that Canon would want to put AF complaints away once and for all. I actually expected they would offer at least a basic one setting per lens for the 500D.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

brightcolours · Mar 25, 2009

Photato said:
brightcolours said:

Photato said:

I'm not new to photography and I know how the AF in a DSLR works.
So is true Canon needs to include a Focus calibration in every DSLR
they make.
I lost a gig due to this AF problem and Canon is losing $ having to
adjust calibrate lots of DSLRs.

It is disappointing to see the 500D with no focus calibration.

Click to expand...

Micro step AF adjustment is NOT focus calibration at all.

Click to expand...

You are wrong.

No, I am right.

Photato said:
Photato said:

The 350D does NOT front focus, it is simply not super accurate in AF,
and it will equally back focus, and also hit focus right on.

Click to expand...

How you dare to challenge my and CANON very own veredict on my 350
50mm.
Do you think I got my first camera yesterday. LOL
It is FRONT FOCUSING and it has never BACK FOCUS or NAILED ANY
PICTURE. !!!!
ZERO ZERO ZERO photos are within focus, and all FRONT FOCUSING !!!!!!

So you have a 50mm f1.8 that does not behave? Geez... get a life and get it looked at.

Photato said:
Photato said:

If you want it to be more precise, then do get it calibrated. And no,
the 450D does NOT AF the same as a 350D. It is much more accurate. I
have used both extensively.

Click to expand...

The 450 has to be more precise because of the increased pixels.
But so what, I will never accept any DSLR costing more that compact
Digicams that focus worst than $50 Optekas from walmart.

I was not aware that walmart sells Opteka DSLRs for $50. One learns every day.

JohnMaij · Mar 25, 2009

Not at all though I'm used to your adding more to a point than is necessary and trying your 2 pence worth of abusive twist.

Yes it is possible, I can't say it has or has not happened - it's that simple. But in the 1st sample the lit AF point was over a part of the prime subject - even the correct height.

Do you often recompose when relying on the cameras' Auto selected AF? I think you'll find it's not common and you would select 1 AF point then choose your recompose area should it be required.

If there is a rational explanation then I'm more than happy to be proved wrong - it's no big deal, it doesn't require trying to slur other forum members - it's a discussion.

Cecil isn't it?

brightcolours said:
JohnMaij said:

ohyva said:

Was this a photo taken by you?
So you know there is no AF-lock + recompose done.

Click to expand...

--

Click to expand...

The a person you replied to pointed out something to you that
seemingly is way over your head: Focus, then recompose.

Wow, what a concept (I use that with just about 90% of all photos I
make).

So, if you think focussing and then "recomposing" is an "issue", then
yes, I agree, most samples show the same "issue".

sigh

--

MPCat · Mar 25, 2009

Photato said:
How you dare to challenge my and CANON very own veredict

Shut up.

Torque124 · Mar 25, 2009

Calibration always fixes the problem, unless it's a problem with the lens also.

We need to understand how focus mechanism works, and that the dot in the viewfinder is actually a larger in reality, and focus can be fooled by objects of high contrast close to the focus point... It is all about skill and learning how to focus correctly.

Okay, there are problems at times, I had them with Sigma lenses and even a Canon 50mm 1.4. But the majority of cameras , and the majority of lenses work fine.

I am just trying to say this bitching on the forums is not justified. Luckily not many people compared to how many cameras are sold visit these forums.

Ehrik said:
Torque124 said:

I had a 300D, 350D,400D, 30D and now a 5Dmk2 and let me tell you...
problem is behind the viewfinder...

Click to expand...

Trying a few samples doesn't tell you anything about someone elses
camera if it's sample variation at work. I don't think anyone claims
all cameras or even a majority have AF issues.

Ehrik said:

There is no cam to make up for lack of skills...

Click to expand...

If it's lack of skill, how come calibration sometimes solves the
problem? How come returning the body and buying another sometimes
helps? How come people can have one body that works, e.g. the 400D
and then get an 450D and it doesn't?

Ehrik said:

Want focus adjustment?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Ehrik said:

Get a 50D!

Click to expand...

Unnecessarily big and heavy. And I'd rather spend the money on glass.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

--

5D mark two + lenses

Ehrik · Mar 25, 2009

Torque124 said:
Calibration always fixes the problem, unless it's a problem with the
lens also.

A correct calibration yes, but some people have had to send the the gear in multiple times until it (in some cases) finally was fixed. That's what I meant by "calibration sometimes solves the problem". However, my point was: When that happens it shows that it wasn't lack of skill of the user but actually something about the camera that caused the problem.

Some cases are user error no doubt, but some cases are due to the equipment.
No need to insult people by suggesting all problems are due to lack of skill.

Just my two oere
Erik from Sweden

CNY_AP · Mar 25, 2009

I wonder if they redeisnged the mirror and whatever mounts the mirror. I think the mirror placement would require very tight tolarances. I don't see how that can be done w/o using metal mounts.

john said:
from a beginner point of view, 15mp from 50D + 1080p video, it's
going to hot sell like pancakes, although they say the sensor came
from 50D, but I bet that the AF system, still has no improvement
since 1000D/450D, so I won't expect too much when it will be use in
situations like dims lights or indoor.

increasing pixel counts only promise first range sell, after the user
found that nearly all their images are soft they will jump ship and
this is not a good thing

john120588 · Mar 25, 2009

CNY_AP said:
I wonder if they redeisnged the mirror and whatever mounts the
mirror. I think the mirror placement would require very tight
tolarances. I don't see how that can be done w/o using metal mounts.

if you take a look on nikon's d40/d60, they also made of plastic, but they have much better AF then canon, so I think the problem was not caused by the plastic, I think the real reason that caused Canon's AF is that the AF sensor (not the image capture sensor) if you flip up the mirror you will see there is another croup of sensor that only do AF focusing just below the mirror, what I believe is that Canon has been using cmos type AF system in most of their camera, and this is what I believe the main problem, you know cmos has a nature of sensitive to weather and cmos will produce more noise than ccd under dim light, so no matter how to send the camera to canon to fine tune the AF, the focus is still very up and down.

and I believe this is what cause the 1d/1dsm3 AF take 3 years to fix, canon have been using ccd AF sensor(not the image cature sensor) since eos 1 film camera and have been great AF, maybe they decided to cut down the cost, so they decided to cmos as their AF sensor starting from 1dm3, and this is why some people believe 1dm2 is better than mark 3

Macro · Mar 25, 2009

brightcolours said:
JohnMaij said:

ohyva said:

Was this a photo taken by you?
So you know there is no AF-lock + recompose done.

Click to expand...

--

Click to expand...

The a person you replied to pointed out something to you that
seemingly is way over your head: Focus, then recompose.

Wow, what a concept (I use that with just about 90% of all photos I
make).

So, if you think focussing and then "recomposing" is an "issue", then
yes, I agree, most samples show the same "issue".

sigh

http://visual-vacations.com/Photography/focus-recompose_sucks.htm

Depending on DOF, perhaps not always noticeable, but something to keep in mind.

--
Macro-

JohnMaij · Mar 26, 2009

I remember that link from years ago - very useful bit of info. I always remember to take this into account but forgotten where I'd got the info from

Macro said:
http://visual-vacations.com/Photography/focus-recompose_sucks.htm

Depending on DOF, perhaps not always noticeable, but something to
keep in mind.

--
Macro-

--

R Johns · Mar 26, 2009

JohnMaij said:
Macro said:

http://visual-vacations.com/Photography/focus-recompose_sucks.htm

Depending on DOF, perhaps not always noticeable, but something to
keep in mind.

--
Macro-

Click to expand...

--

--The artical is factual and explained very well. However, the artical does not take into account that thinking photographers can develope a sixth sense for this kind of issue. That's where experience makes all of the difference.

Some photographers have learned to think in trigonometrical terms, when dealing with this issue. If you become familiar enough with your gear and environment to where you can instinctively predict your DOF limitations and postitioning related to your subject vs. focus point, this becomes less of an issue.

Concert photography comes to mind, where one can become good at these kinds of practices.

These images were taken within several feet of subject, either on stage or inside the barrier @ f4 or wider. All I'm saying is it's not hopeless to get good at the "focus-recompose" technique. This is where practice can make perfect, once you become aware of the variables.

Regards,

Russ

rebuilding a modest gallery @ http://inspired-photography.com

Greater is He that is within me, than he who is in this world...

CM_laptop · Mar 26, 2009

Zoomix said:
Is not a fault. When you mid press shutter button and you recompose
the scene, "AF point selection" is not valid, because this view not
change, remains first press AF button.
That's my experience in my ex-40D

It's not focus-&-recompose that's producing crappy AF on the xxxD series.

It's Canon's hardheadedness in not improving the AF, camera after camera.

Which is a pity.

Jim Holtz · Mar 26, 2009

john said:
if you take a look on nikon's d40/d60, they also made of plastic, but
they have much better AF then canon, so I think the problem was not
caused by the plastic, I think the real reason that caused Canon's AF
is that the AF sensor (not the image capture sensor) if you flip up
the mirror you will see there is another croup of sensor that only do
AF focusing just below the mirror, what I believe is that Canon has
been using cmos type AF system in most of their camera, and this is
what I believe the main problem, you know cmos has a nature of
sensitive to weather and cmos will produce more noise than ccd under
dim light, so no matter how to send the camera to canon to fine tune
the AF, the focus is still very up and down.

and I believe this is what cause the 1d/1dsm3 AF take 3 years to fix,
canon have been using ccd AF sensor(not the image cature sensor)
since eos 1 film camera and have been great AF, maybe they decided to
cut down the cost, so they decided to cmos as their AF sensor
starting from 1dm3, and this is why some people believe 1dm2 is
better than mark 3

Do you have any credible references for your statements that CCD sensors are superior to CMOS? Also credible references that Nikon has a superior focusing mechanism in the D40 & D60's?

Jim

CNY_AP · Mar 26, 2009

I agree - something like this is the cause. Some message on here said Canon seemed to suspect the mirror - that's where I got that idea from, and my recollection is that the XSI did something different (cheaper) in this area. But as you said, it seems AF has been a weak spot on other Canons as well. I'm not saying other brands are better, I have no experiance with them, I'm saying the camera is fantastic otherwise (the AF is the "weak link" comapred to the rest of the camera).

Mine misfocuses (in phase detect mode compared to contrast detect results) even in pretty good late afternoon outdoor light (so the AF sensor should be getting a lot of light). Sometimes it surprises me though and does a good job even while shooting through a window.

john said:
CNY_AP said:

I wonder if they redeisnged the mirror and whatever mounts the
mirror. I think the mirror placement would require very tight
tolarances. I don't see how that can be done w/o using metal mounts.

Click to expand...

if you take a look on nikon's d40/d60, they also made of plastic, but
they have much better AF then canon, so I think the problem was not
caused by the plastic, I think the real reason that caused Canon's AF
is that the AF sensor (not the image capture sensor) if you flip up
the mirror you will see there is another croup of sensor that only do
AF focusing just below the mirror, what I believe is that Canon has
been using cmos type AF system in most of their camera, and this is
what I believe the main problem, you know cmos has a nature of
sensitive to weather and cmos will produce more noise than ccd under
dim light, so no matter how to send the camera to canon to fine tune
the AF, the focus is still very up and down.

and I believe this is what cause the 1d/1dsm3 AF take 3 years to fix,
canon have been using ccd AF sensor(not the image cature sensor)
since eos 1 film camera and have been great AF, maybe they decided to
cut down the cost, so they decided to cmos as their AF sensor
starting from 1dm3, and this is why some people believe 1dm2 is
better than mark 3

Andreas Helke · Mar 26, 2009

R Butler said:
I took the photo that's being discussed.

I wish I could remember whether I focused and recomposed, but I have
absolutely no idea. On the basis that I was trying to imitate the
framing of a shot I'd just taken without Highlight Tone Priority,
it's a possibility.

Richard - dpreview.com

--

If it was me I would definitely have recomposed. The indicated focus area has dangerously low contrast and I would would expect focus errors when using this area for focusing.

katy C. · Mar 26, 2009

--

In my experience the 450D is the most accurate autofocus Canon DSLR I've ever owned.

And this includes A1 Servo

Katy

500D AF - good as ever :)

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