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Best "high end" digital compact for image quality?

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penelope138

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I know that no compact is going to have image quality that is anywhere near an SLR or DSLR, but as the saying goes "the best camera in the world is the one you've got with you". I'm looking for a reasonably compact camera with both manual and automatic controls, price isn't an issue, preferably with at least a little zoom. Any suggestions?
 
penelope138 said:
I know that no compact is going to have image quality that is
anywhere near an SLR or DSLR, but as the saying goes "the best camera
in the world is the one you've got with you". I'm looking for a
reasonably compact camera with both manual and automatic controls,
price isn't an issue, preferably with at least a little zoom. Any
suggestions?
Click to expand...
LX3

--
Kind Regards,

John

Born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain. I reject EU citizenship. (Gods Gift - No training necessary) / Pentax Espio Mini / Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 / That's it!
_ _
 
i think the new panny FX150 is the best compromise of features out there. it's primary failing is that the lens only gets to 28mm equiv WA, and has limited manual settings, but offers large 1/1.7" sensor, 28-105mm leica, RAW, HD video at 24fps, is easily pocketable, and has excellent IQ (13x19" prints from my fx100 rival prints from my D200).

the LX3 is also very nice, but is not so pocketable, and zoom range is limited to only 60mm on the long end. G9/10 also too bulky to be pocketable and doesnto offer HD video.

sony W300 is nice but no WA and no HD video. nikon S710 also a good cam with 28-105, but no HD video.

i have generally ruled out all cams with the smaller 1/2.3" sensors.
--
jnorman
sunridge studios
salem, oregon
Panasonic FX100
D200, nikon 12-24mm ED-IF AF-S DX, 18-70mm DX
Cambo 45NX, nikkor SW 90/8, 135/5.6, 210/5.6
Graflex Crown Graphic 4x5 (1948 model)
 
james b norman said:
WA, and has limited manual settings, but offers large 1/1.7" sensor,
i have generally ruled out all cams with the smaller 1/2.3" sensors.
Click to expand...
The size difference between 1/1.7" and even 1/2.5" compact digital sensors is about the same as between 1.5x (sony made) and 1.6x (Canon made) aps-c sensors. Their sizes in mm are below. And I've never heard anyone say they prefer 1.5x sensors because they are bigger. The difference is just too small!

1/1.7" 7.6 x 5.7
1/2.5" 5.8 x 4.3

1.6x: 22.3 x 14.9 mm
1.5x: 23.6 x 15.8 mm

I invite you to page through the compact digital camera reviews here and see if you can tell between 2 cameras (without looking at their sensor size) which image was 1/1.7"(or 1.8) vs. 1/2.3" (or 2.5")

Plus, the "larger" 1/1.7" and 1/1.8" sensors usually get more pixels added than 1/1.23" or 1/2.5" sensors. So in the end you end up with about the same size pixels if that is what matters to you. So the outcome is essentially a wash! This is probably one reason why the Fuji F10 and F30 were had such great IQ because of their 1/1.8" or 1.7 sensors but only 6MP instead of the 10 to 15 that they get crammed with now.
 
the absolute difference may be about the same as between canon and sony APS sensors, but it is relative area that is important. the relative area is 75% larger on the 1.7" sensor. that's good for 2/3 of a stop in noise, assuming the same tech is used on sensors.
RedFox88 said:
james b norman said:
WA, and has limited manual settings, but offers large 1/1.7" sensor,
i have generally ruled out all cams with the smaller 1/2.3" sensors.
Click to expand...
The size difference between 1/1.7" and even 1/2.5" compact digital
sensors is about the same as between 1.5x (sony made) and 1.6x (Canon
made) aps-c sensors. Their sizes in mm are below. And I've never
heard anyone say they prefer 1.5x sensors because they are bigger.
The difference is just too small!

1/1.7" 7.6 x 5.7
1/2.5" 5.8 x 4.3

1.6x: 22.3 x 14.9 mm
1.5x: 23.6 x 15.8 mm

I invite you to page through the compact digital camera reviews here
and see if you can tell between 2 cameras (without looking at their
sensor size) which image was 1/1.7"(or 1.8) vs. 1/2.3" (or 2.5")

Plus, the "larger" 1/1.7" and 1/1.8" sensors usually get more pixels
added than 1/1.23" or 1/2.5" sensors. So in the end you end up with
about the same size pixels if that is what matters to you. So the
outcome is essentially a wash! This is probably one reason why the
Fuji F10 and F30 were had such great IQ because of their 1/1.8" or
1.7 sensors but only 6MP instead of the 10 to 15 that they get
crammed with now.
Click to expand...
 
penelope138 said:
I was considering the LX3 or the Ricoh Gx200. Anyone have any
thoughts on these two?
Click to expand...
--

$500 for a short zoom P&S when you can get a number of DSLRs for less now makes little sense unless the need for portability is overriding.
 
Do you generally perform any post-processing on your images? If you don't, then the LX3 would be a good choice because its JPEGs are over-sharpened, which helps them look better when printed.

If you like to process your JPEG images just a little, then the G10 and Ricoh produce softer images that are more receptive to processing, the Ricoh being the softer of the two.

I find that I get exactly the same results when processing LX3 and G10 RAW images. The sensors in these two are essentially equal in quality and results. The big difference is in the maker's approach to image processing (such as sharpening, noted above.) I haven't tried processing a GX200 image.

All of these cameras are large. None of them fit easily in a pocket. Unless you always carry a bag with you, you may want to think smaller.

If you do always carry a bag, then the Canon G10 has the best ergonomics. EV and ISO have their own controls, and there's no lens cap to deal with (as with the LX3 and GX200.) Because of this, it will give you the best chance of capturing the moment with adequate settings. You'll get two or three shots off in the same time it takes the other cameras to take a shot and then use the menu to adjust ISO or EV.

Good luck!
 
Graystar said:
Do you generally perform any post-processing on your images? If you
don't, then the LX3 would be a good choice because its JPEGs are
over-sharpened, which helps them look better when printed.

If you like to process your JPEG images just a little, then the G10
and Ricoh produce softer images that are more receptive to
processing, the Ricoh being the softer of the two.

I find that I get exactly the same results when processing LX3 and
G10 RAW images. The sensors in these two are essentially equal in
quality and results. The big difference is in the maker's approach
to image processing (such as sharpening, noted above.) I haven't
tried processing a GX200 image.

All of these cameras are large. None of them fit easily in a pocket.
Unless you always carry a bag with you, you may want to think smaller.

If you do always carry a bag, then the Canon G10 has the best
ergonomics. EV and ISO have their own controls, and there's no lens
cap to deal with (as with the LX3 and GX200.) Because of this, it
will give you the best chance of capturing the moment with adequate
settings. You'll get two or three shots off in the same time it
takes the other cameras to take a shot and then use the menu to
adjust ISO or EV.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
--

I do a bit of post-processing, but do like my images sharper so am maybe thinking LX3.
I usually carry a bag with me so they can be slightly larger.

Just realised that the series of compact reviews is going to include "high end" and "advanced" so will try to be patient and see if they suggest anything I haven't thought/heard of.

Thanks everyone for replying, it has stopped me boring non-camera people with endless debating about what I should go for when they don't know/care what I am talking about!
 
Check the Sigma DP1. It's not a run-of-the-mill P&S in terms of image quality and usability. It's not that fastest or easiest camera to use and it doesn't have a zoom lens, but it's APS-C size Foveon sensor will outdo any compact in terms of image quality.
--
My humble photo gallery: http://ntotrr.smugmug.com

 
ElFenix said:
the absolute difference may be about the same as between canon and
sony APS sensors, but it is relative area that is important. the
relative area is 75% larger on the 1.7" sensor. that's good for 2/3
of a stop in noise, assuming the same tech is used on sensors.
Click to expand...
Again, look at P&S reviews on this site and tell me if you can blindly tell which is a 1/1.7" sensor vs. a 1/2.3" or 1/2.5" and comparing a $400 or $500 model against a low end $150 model isn't a fair way to go about that.

I've looked at 1/1.8" sensors 10 or 12MP sensors against 1/2.5" 8MP sensor P&S reviews and you really can't tell a difference in DPR reviews for IQ.

When you go 12 or 15MP on a 1/1.7" or 1/1.8" sensor and 8 or 9MP on a 1/2.3" or 1/2.5" sensor you end up with about the same IQ due to pixel size.
 
I have not read this entire thread, so my apologies if this has been posted before.
You might want to check out this site:

http://www.seriouscompacts.com

It concentrates on the cameras most likely to be considered in answering your question.

--
'Gosh, you've really got some nice toys here.'
Roy Batty
 
you can see it in cameralabs versions, which show the whole range side by side so it's easier to pick up. dpreview hardly does any ultra compact tests, let alone showing you the results of an ultracompact vs a somewhat larger sensor side by side in a full ISO series. so you've set me an impossible task.

would i be able to pick out 2/3 of a stop better noise just looking at a single image in a vacuum? no. but then that is hardly the issue.
RedFox88 said:
Again, look at P&S reviews on this site and tell me if you can
blindly tell which is a 1/1.7" sensor vs. a 1/2.3" or 1/2.5" and
comparing a $400 or $500 model against a low end $150 model isn't a
fair way to go about that.

I've looked at 1/1.8" sensors 10 or 12MP sensors against 1/2.5" 8MP
sensor P&S reviews and you really can't tell a difference in DPR
reviews for IQ.

When you go 12 or 15MP on a 1/1.7" or 1/1.8" sensor and 8 or 9MP on a
1/2.3" or 1/2.5" sensor you end up with about the same IQ due to
pixel size.
Click to expand...
 
The panasonic lx3 is a little marvel.

Costs less than a prime glass for my dslr and it is worth every penny I spent and then more.

Just try it out and you'll see.

------------------
street photography is a passion
 
ElFenix said:
you can see it in cameralabs versions, which show the whole range
side by side so it's easier to pick up. dpreview hardly does any
ultra compact tests, let alone showing you the results of an
ultracompact vs a somewhat larger sensor side by side in a full ISO
series. so you've set me an impossible task.
Click to expand...
You can easily do it yourself by having 2 browser windows open, one of a 1/2.5" P&S and another a 1/1.7" P&S. THe 1/2.5" will likely be 8MP and the 1/1.7" will probably be 10 or 12MP and there are reviews of both. I'll help you out even. :D

a570 7MP, 1/2.5" sensor:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona570is/page9.asp

a640 8MP, 1/1.8" sensor:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona640/page10.asp

and g9, 12MP 1/1.7" sensor:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong9/page12.asp

And don't confuse the d9's higher default contrast for being "extra" sharp. Even it doesn't look noticably better than the a570. There is nothing wrong with 1/2.5" sensors as long as you aren't looking to make 16x20" enlargements regularly as goes for any P&S camera.
 
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