Bicubic Smoother?

Rob454545 · Dec 2, 2008

Shutterfly is offering 50% off 16"X20" and 20"X30" posters. I have a few pictures I want to print at these sizes.

I have CS4 but have never messed with the "Image Size" dialog box at all. I just don't get it!

Anywhoo, can I just check 'Resample Image Bicubic Smoother' to upsample a photo from my 10 megapixel dSLR or do I need to know what the preferred image size/resolution Shutterfly wants for a 16"X20" poster? Or am I better off just letting Shutterfly resize the image?

Please help!

Jim Hess · Dec 2, 2008

My suggestion would be to just send the full sized file and let them take care of it.

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

Rob454545 said:
Shutterfly is offering 50% off 16"X20" and 20"X30" posters. I have a
few pictures I want to print at these sizes.
I have CS4 but have never messed with the "Image Size" dialog box at
all. I just don't get it!
Anywhoo, can I just check 'Resample Image Bicubic Smoother' to
upsample a photo from my 10 megapixel dSLR or do I need to know what
the preferred image size/resolution Shutterfly wants for a 16"X20"
poster? Or am I better off just letting Shutterfly resize the image?

Please help!
--

Most use bicubic sharper to upsample an image. But there are 3rd party plug-ins that do a better job at this than photoshop does.

if it is just an occassion, then bicubic sharper will do. If you have to upsample alot of images regularly, it might be a good idea to look into this software.

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

Jim Hess said:
My suggestion would be to just send the full sized file and let them
take care of it.

Sorry jim, i don't agree with you and given the OP's target sizes, you need to upres the images! Since a MP file is not capable of deleivering a high enough MP count to do a crop to those sizes at all.

20 inch x 30 inch = about 45 cm's x 75 cm's, no way a 10MP dslr can do that with standard resolution!

So, the guys you send the images to, still have to upres the images, no matter what!

Jim Hess · Dec 2, 2008

Toermalijn said:
Jim Hess said:

My suggestion would be to just send the full sized file and let them
take care of it.

Click to expand...

Sorry jim, i don't agree with you and given the OP's target sizes,
you need to upres the images! Since a MP file is not capable of
deleivering a high enough MP count to do a crop to those sizes at all.

20 inch x 30 inch = about 45 cm's x 75 cm's, no way a 10MP dslr can
do that with standard resolution!

So, the guys you send the images to, still have to upres the images,
no matter what!

You might be (probably are) right. I really don't know. My only thought is that when trying to upsize an image you are creating pixels and I don't know how accurate my software is when doing that. I recently sent a 10 MP image to Mpix to have a 16x20 printed, and I didn't do any upsizing. After I uploaded the image I was told what sizes would be appropriate. It indicated up to 20x30. I ordered my print, and the results were very nice. So I just gave an opinion based on my experience.

Conrad Birdie · Dec 2, 2008

Rob454545 said:
Shutterfly is offering 50% off 16"X20" and 20"X30" posters. I have a
few pictures I want to print at these sizes.
I have CS4 but have never messed with the "Image Size" dialog box at
all. I just don't get it!
Anywhoo, can I just check 'Resample Image Bicubic Smoother' to
upsample a photo from my 10 megapixel dSLR or do I need to know what
the preferred image size/resolution Shutterfly wants for a 16"X20"
poster? Or am I better off just letting Shutterfly resize the image?

Please help!
--

--

At a minimum, most printers will request at least 200 dpi resolution. I use http://www.myphotopipe.com for my large (poster size printing) and they have printed several for me at 200 dpi and they turned out spectacular. So, it is really dependant on the printer.

Keep in mind that most poster size prints will not be viewed within 3 feet. Most are viewed at 6 feet or futher, so some loss of quality is acceptable. With that said, if you are printing a 20x30 print with a minimum of 200 dpi resolution, you would need a 24mg file.

That is why I encourage doing panoramic photos when trying to print that large. Most panoramic software will now stitch multiple rows, so 4 images stitched together would be much better than uprezing your smaller files.

Hope that makes sense.
Conrad 'Bye Bye' Birdie
'Aspire to inspire before you expire'.

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

Jim Hess said:
Toermalijn said:

Jim Hess said:

My suggestion would be to just send the full sized file and let them
take care of it.

Click to expand...

Sorry jim, i don't agree with you and given the OP's target sizes,
you need to upres the images! Since a MP file is not capable of
deleivering a high enough MP count to do a crop to those sizes at all.

20 inch x 30 inch = about 45 cm's x 75 cm's, no way a 10MP dslr can
do that with standard resolution!

So, the guys you send the images to, still have to upres the images,
no matter what!

Click to expand...

You might be (probably are) right. I really don't know. My only
thought is that when trying to upsize an image you are creating
pixels and I don't know how accurate my software is when doing that.
I recently sent a 10 MP image to Mpix to have a 16x20 printed, and I
didn't do any upsizing. After I uploaded the image I was told what
sizes would be appropriate. It indicated up to 20x30. I ordered my
print, and the results were very nice. So I just gave an opinion
based on my experience.

Most pro's use special upres software! They know exactly what the limit is of given camera's and their native resolution for print.

A 10Mp camera at native 300 dpi cannot do natively 20 inch x 30 inch prints, they have to upres.

A 10 or 12 Mp camera can do about an A4 in native resolution at 300 dpi! A4 is 297 mm x 210 mm. Way smaller then you 20 inch x 30 inch...20 x 30 cm's would be much closer though.

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

Conrad Birdie said:
Rob454545 said:

Shutterfly is offering 50% off 16"X20" and 20"X30" posters. I have a
few pictures I want to print at these sizes.
I have CS4 but have never messed with the "Image Size" dialog box at
all. I just don't get it!
Anywhoo, can I just check 'Resample Image Bicubic Smoother' to
upsample a photo from my 10 megapixel dSLR or do I need to know what
the preferred image size/resolution Shutterfly wants for a 16"X20"
poster? Or am I better off just letting Shutterfly resize the image?

Please help!
--

Click to expand...

--
At a minimum, most printers will request at least 200 dpi resolution.
I use http://www.myphotopipe.com for my large (poster size printing) and
they have printed several for me at 200 dpi and they turned out
spectacular. So, it is really dependant on the printer.

Keep in mind that most poster size prints will not be viewed within 3
feet. Most are viewed at 6 feet or futher, so some loss of quality
is acceptable. With that said, if you are printing a 20x30 print
with a minimum of 200 dpi resolution, you would need a 24mg file.

That is why I encourage doing panoramic photos when trying to print
that large. Most panoramic software will now stitch multiple rows,
so 4 images stitched together would be much better than uprezing your
smaller files.

Hope that makes sense.
Conrad 'Bye Bye' Birdie
'Aspire to inspire before you expire'.

Totally agree with ya.

roblarosa · Dec 2, 2008

Toermalijn said:
Most pro's use special upres software! They know exactly what the
limit is of given camera's and their native resolution for print.

A 10Mp camera at native 300 dpi cannot do natively 20 inch x 30 inch
prints, they have to upres.

A 10 or 12 Mp camera can do about an A4 in native resolution at 300
dpi! A4 is 297 mm x 210 mm. Way smaller then you 20 inch x 30
inch...20 x 30 cm's would be much closer though.

True enough, but for the rest of us it's probably better to let the lab do the upresing. Any reputable lab with have the software and know-how to do it correctly and quickly.

Even the dopes at my local Ritz camera can get this one right. I've had several pics taken by a 12mp camera printed at 20x30" and they've always come out great.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegasrob/

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

roblarosa said:
Toermalijn said:

Most pro's use special upres software! They know exactly what the
limit is of given camera's and their native resolution for print.

A 10Mp camera at native 300 dpi cannot do natively 20 inch x 30 inch
prints, they have to upres.

A 10 or 12 Mp camera can do about an A4 in native resolution at 300
dpi! A4 is 297 mm x 210 mm. Way smaller then you 20 inch x 30
inch...20 x 30 cm's would be much closer though.

Click to expand...

True enough, but for the rest of us it's probably better to let the
lab do the upresing. Any reputable lab with have the software and
know-how to do it correctly and quickly.

Even the dopes at my local Ritz camera can get this one right. I've
had several pics taken by a 12mp camera printed at 20x30" and they've
always come out great.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegasrob/

Probably, but if you compare to native 25Mp or large format, you'll notice what you're missing in "native' resolution. It has always been this way between MF, LF and small format!

Granted, some software does a nice job at upressing small format files but it's not a miracle cure for missing resolution or pixels! For most of us it'll do though.

I'd rather do this stuff myself, more control!

Rob454545 · Dec 2, 2008

So if I wanted to try bicubic smoother, how does one accomplish this? Do I set the document size to 16"X20" and resolution to , say, 300 and check the bicubic smoother resample box?

Is this likely to give me superior results vs. just letting the print facility (Shutterfly) upsample the image?
Thanks for all the input.

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

Rob454545 said:
So if I wanted to try bicubic smoother, how does one accomplish this?
Do I set the document size to 16"X20" and resolution to , say, 300
and check the bicubic smoother resample box?
Is this likely to give me superior results vs. just letting the print
facility (Shutterfly) upsample the image?
Thanks for all the input.
--

As i said before, most ( pro's) use bicubic smoother to upres the images.

I know there are plug-ins/stand alone software that does a better job at resizing small format then photohsop bicubic smoother.

If it's going to be any better is quite dependant on wich software they use, probably also photoshop. In that case, you won't be better off! If you happen to know IF they use special upres software, then yes, you can get (slightly) better results!

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

Toermalijn said:
Rob454545 said:

Shutterfly is offering 50% off 16"X20" and 20"X30" posters. I have a
few pictures I want to print at these sizes.
I have CS4 but have never messed with the "Image Size" dialog box at
all. I just don't get it!
Anywhoo, can I just check 'Resample Image Bicubic Smoother' to
upsample a photo from my 10 megapixel dSLR or do I need to know what
the preferred image size/resolution Shutterfly wants for a 16"X20"
poster? Or am I better off just letting Shutterfly resize the image?

Please help!
--

Click to expand...

Most use bicubic sharper to upsample an image. But there are 3rd
party plug-ins that do a better job at this than photoshop does.

if it is just an occassion, then bicubic sharper will do. If you have
to upsample alot of images regularly, it might be a good idea to look
into this software.

bicubic smoother!

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

It has to be bicubic smoother, of course, for upres and bicubic sharper for downsizing! Sorry about the typo!

Mitrajoon · Dec 2, 2008

Actually, Scott Kelby in "CS3 for Digital Photographers" reccomends bicubic sharper for poster size pics. Counter intuitive, but he gives examples and makes a good argument.
--
Mitra
http://jmlphotography.smugmug.com/

Buzzzman · Dec 2, 2008

I have printed 18x26 inch prints on an epson 4000 which were outstanding- even up close. These were shot with a nikon d200 I resized 18 by 26 with resample UNCHECKED. The files ended up 144 dpi which is about as low dpi the Epson 4000 will handle for viewing up close and still look sharp.
Buzz

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

Mitrajoon said:
Actually, Scott Kelby in "CS3 for Digital Photographers" reccomends
bicubic sharper for poster size pics. Counter intuitive, but he gives
examples and makes a good argument.
--
Mitra
http://jmlphotography.smugmug.com/

That's why i was confused. I also use bicubic sharper to upres, while most use it to downsize.

OP seemed to be determined to use bicubic smoother, that's why i changed it to that, but i stand behind my posts stating bicubic sharper!

Thought i was wrong, but i wasn't after all! LOL. Your mind can play some nice tricks sometimes.LOL.

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

Buzzzman said:
I have printed 18x26 inch prints on an epson 4000 which were
outstanding- even up close. These were shot with a nikon d200 I
resized 18 by 26 with resample UNCHECKED. The files ended up 144 dpi
which is about as low dpi the Epson 4000 will handle for viewing up
close and still look sharp.
Buzz

My background is from pro printing and retouch; the golden rule is minimum of 300 dpi! Some pro printshops will only take 300 dpi or higher for print.

Toermalijn · Dec 2, 2008

By the way, do you mean 144 lpi or dpi?! 144 lpi would be about the same as 300 dpi! lpi versus dpi is about 2 or 2,2 times lpi. Lpi being lines per inch and dpi being dots per inch! Some prinsthops ask for 300 LPI or more, meaning 300 times 2 or 2,2, meaning minimum of 600 dpi!

AFirestone · Dec 3, 2008

Toermalijn said:
As i said before, most ( pro's) use bicubic smoother to upres the
images.

I know there are plug-ins/stand alone software that does a better job
at resizing small format then photohsop bicubic smoother.

If it's going to be any better is quite dependant on wich software
they use, probably also photoshop. In that case, you won't be better
off! If you happen to know IF they use special upres software, then
yes, you can get (slightly) better results!

It really depends on your source image. You really need a pristine image to get a nice upscale to something that big. You can't do miracles to a poor source.

As you mentioned, you can sometimes do better with other software/plugins. If the image has any sort of fine detail to it, I personally would prefer to use a spline resize over Photoshop's bicubic-softer. Spline is considered a neutral resize which is designed to stay as sharp as possible without creating ringing or halos. Since I am as much a video guy as a photo guy, if I was going the resize route, I would probably end up using AviSynth since it's free, with a script like the following for the 20"x30" print:

imagesource("C:\croppedsource.bmp")
Spline64Resize(6000,9000)
ImageWriter("",0,1,"tiff")

Then I would open the resulting tiff in Photoshop, uncheck resample image, set the resolution to 300ppi, optionally apply some very minimal sharpening and other filtering if needed, and then save it as a 100% JPEG (since that is all Shutterfly seems to accept).

This is just my personal preference. If you don't feel like messing with avisynth just stick with bicubic-softer in Photoshop.

Bicubic Smoother?

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