video on dslrs?

rubicon

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With the intro of the d90, is video going to be the wave of the future?

I'm not impressed with that "gimmick" if this is the future I guess me and my 70s, and D200, will be together for many years.
Sorry if I'm not impressed with new d90, I say enjoy.

Rubicon:
 
Seeing as how Canon follow suit with an upmarket model, yes.

Its the first one they dropped since the D90 and it has it, even uprated from the D90. I see this being less popular for the pros as on the consumer models and seeing as how Canon opened up that can of worms it will likely cover the whole range.
 
I may well be the most well-known (or infamous) anti-video on SLR person that posts here--which has never been my intention, but anyway. So my position is well known, and thus I'll keep it much shorter than I usually do.

I am with you (the original poster) I do not like this one bit, because it potentially distracts the SLR away from being the best still imaging device it can be. The 5D II and D90 don't seem to do this, but eventually the SLR may well lose its very identity, which to be a total shame. If this happens, we have the YouTubers and Soccer Moms to blame, because they just don't have enough intelligence and awareness of what an SLR has been for many years--even through all the innovations--to realize just what they're asking for when they demand a YouTube mode on an SLR. Yet this doesn't stop them from demanding it--and putting pressure on Nikon and Canon to cave in and make an SLR that tries to be an iPhone.

How DARE anyone cater to these people in the SLR realm, when there are Coolpixes, Powershots, Cybershots and Easyshares aplenty that already do this--and I don't bemoan any of it, but NOT in the SLR realm.

I consider this downright blasphemous, tasteless, and akin to someone griping and moaning that the wonderful Italian restaurant place down the road is being too "purist" or "elitist" because it won't jump on the Ryan's Buffet bandwagon and offer other choices for people who don't like Italian (then why are they at an Italian restaurant to begin with?). I have no problem with cameras (or restaurants) that are the "jack of all trades," the Swiss Army Knife--but that isn't an SLR's place. That is a Coolpix's place, just as it is Ryan's Buffet's place but not the "mom & pop Italian" places.

I promised I'd keep it shorter than usual. Enough for now.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)
 
I agree with you Larry, adding useless features definately detracts from it being the best camera it could be. Film is the only true SLR.

By switching to digital (especially the DX format) we have ruined photgraphy. Instead of taking the F bodies and lenses and making them the best they have to be Nikon has been wasting their time developing digital photography.

DOWN WITH DSLRs!
 
Like I said a month ago, all future released DSLR cameras will have video capture, even pro models. The only exception are the ones that have been in the pipeline for awhile and got caught napping.

I also pointed out that while my CP5000 has near 50,000 shots, it only has three videos made and never shown to anyone.
My D70s does many things that I have never and will never ask it to do.
My car will exceed 150 mph. But never will as long as I own it.
With the intro of the d90, is video going to be the wave of the future?
I'm not impressed with that "gimmick" if this is the future I guess
me and my 70s, and D200, will be together for many years.
Sorry if I'm not impressed with new d90, I say enjoy.

Rubicon:
--
Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning

 
With the intro of the d90, is video going to be the wave of the future?
I'm not impressed with that "gimmick" if this is the future I guess
me and my 70s, and D200, will be together for many years.
Sorry if I'm not impressed with new d90, I say enjoy.
If you decide not to buy a D90 because of the video feature, then you a missing out on a great DSLR that trumps both your D70 and D200 in IQ, DR, and high ISO performance. The video is just a great 'feature', nothing more. And a darn convenient one at that!!

Don't apologize for your older bodies. I'm sure they still take fine pictures despite their feature sets being a bit outdated.
 
I agree with you Larry, adding useless features definately detracts
from it being the best camera it could be. Film is the only true SLR.

By switching to digital (especially the DX format) we have ruined
photgraphy. Instead of taking the F bodies and lenses and making
them the best they have to be Nikon has been wasting their time
developing digital photography.

DOWN WITH DSLRs!
Sarcasm from a man with (probably) more money than brains.

Digital still has to do with PHOTOGRAPHY. You used the word, PHOTOGRAPHY. That is exactly what I am referring to, photography vs VIDEOGRAPHY. Anyone with a brain bigger than a black-eyed-pea knows full well that digital or film, TTL or not, autofocus or not, automatic return mirror or not--through all of that, the SLR still has been about one thing and one thing only--photographs.

Heck, you don't hear anyone criticized who only wants a phone that is "just a phone" (vs an iPhone) that "gee whiz, ever since they came out with touch-tone dialing, speed-dialing, cordless technology, speakerphones--phone just aren't phones anymore!" That analogy doesn't hold and neither does yours. Besides, they still make phones that aren't iPhones or Blackberries, and people who don't like that because it's "elitist" can easily get an iPhone or Blackberry instead.

And people that expect a camera to do video clips can easily get a point & shoot instead.

I have the day off-work, time for me to go enjoy the outdoors and take my camera with me to take some PICTURES. I'll have plenty of time later to argue with the idiots with an iPhone jacked so far up their rectum they've turned into Swiss Army Knife whores with no respect for art.
---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)
 
I agree with you Larry, adding useless features definately detracts
from it being the best camera it could be. Film is the only true SLR.

By switching to digital (especially the DX format) we have ruined
photgraphy. Instead of taking the F bodies and lenses and making
them the best they have to be Nikon has been wasting their time
developing digital photography.

DOWN WITH DSLRs!
Sarcasm from a man with (probably) more money than brains.
Wow, I really got your panties in a bunch. That is common among hypcorites though. You would probably start to cry if a "real" photograper referred to your hobby as taking pictures since it doesnt fall under the classical (and technically correct) definition of photgraphy.

I enjoy both the darkroom and my computer and am too lazy to judge. I just enjoy poking fun at hyporcites.

BTW, the people who want "just a phone" dont do it on some princinpal that having the ability to do something else ruins the concept of a phone. The iphone is still a phone.
 
No, #1 I am not a hypocrite (if you say I am, prove it) and #2 I respect tradition even as I welcome innovation.
I enjoy both the darkroom and my computer and am too lazy to judge.
I just enjoy poking fun at hyporcites.
If you have used a darkroom, then you of all people ought to understand the SLR tradition and respect it and know exactly where the original poster is coming from.

As for "lazy," that would be the mentality of people that video mode on an SLR appeals to--too lazy to research Wikipedia and photography magazines and realize just what an SLR is, and too lazy to study and notice that Canon, Sony, Kodak, Olympus, Panasonic, TONS of companies make point & shoots that take photos and videos--and that the SLR is a different breed that shouldn't be dragged into the same arena.
BTW, the people who want "just a phone" dont do it on some princinpal
that having the ability to do something else ruins the concept of a
phone. The iphone is still a phone.
The iPhone is a phone, but it's not as good at just the phone aspects as a "just a phone" is. It does it well enough for most people, heck probably even me, but it doesn't do it as well. Anyone who's used a real phone (particularly a landline) knows that its handset is much more comfortable for long call durations than an iPhone--and even having Bluetooth doesn't totally bridge the gap. And yes, the iPhone doing other things as a result it DOES compromise how good of a phone it is. But for most people, that's good enough--but if you're extremely phone-conversation oriented and don't want extraneous extras detracting from that, then it's not the way to go.

And SLRs are not iPhones, and never should be.

---



LRH
http://www.pbase.com/larrytucaz
http://larrytxeast.smugmug.com/ (inactive)
 
Video is an "extra" feature of D90 that's very valuable. At beginning, I switched from Canon 40D to D90 mainly of better AF and Metering... After almost 1 month, I fall in love with the video thingy. It's an "extra" hobby for me now. There are moments that can't expressed by still images. I am glad I catch those moments with D90 while I still have the luxury of D90's great IQ of still.

Take a look my edited video:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/drmelvinh/2898044892/

I am just amature now... but will get better soon. Enjoy!
With the intro of the d90, is video going to be the wave of the future?
I'm not impressed with that "gimmick" if this is the future I guess
me and my 70s, and D200, will be together for many years.
Sorry if I'm not impressed with new d90, I say enjoy.

Rubicon:
 
With the intro of the d90, is video going to be the wave of the future?
In my opinion, answer is: definitely, no questions about this. What camcorder does? Ideally, the same what still camera does, but 24 times per second. What do we need? Cinema's frame is about 3 MP, so we need a camera which can process (i.e. compress) about 2400x1300 24 frames per second, which makes about 75 MP per second. D90 processes (in my opinion) about 15 MP per second when shoots video. So, still a lot to do, but it can be done. There will be some problems with sensor, some problems with transfer etc, but I think it is not impossible.

Actually, this is a way to go for Canonikon. Right now for amateur photographer all DSLRs are almost perfect. Yes, high ISO could be a bit better, lenses can be a bit better, but generally for 95% amateur photographers D90 wouldn't make any difference in picture quality over D50. Both are such a good cameras so the only limited factor is photographer's skills, not a camera. It means, for camera makers it will be harder and harder to sell new camera to somebody who already has old one which makes everything he wants. Look at Microsoft Vista. ;)

Video can start new race. D90 is so good for still pictures, yes, but look what we've just done! We've made a new camera which makes same great pictures, but also can shoot real HD (super-HD, super-super-HD etc)! Your old camera is obsolete, go to the store and get new one!
 
I state you are a hypocrite because you judge something that is simply a feature that has no affect on the function of the SLR but then justify using a digital sensor of DX size and calling it photgraphy. It techincally (and traditionally isnt).

So take your pick, either progress is ruining photograpy or it isnt. Even if it was EVIL is the only real change to photography, just recording the liveview feed is nothing.
 
I enjoy both the darkroom and my computer and am too lazy to judge.
I just enjoy poking fun at hyporcites.
If you have used a darkroom, then you of all people ought to
understand the SLR tradition and respect it and know exactly where
the original poster is coming from.
I have spent weeks in a darkroom (not all at once ;-) - and I loved it - just things have evolved into what they are today. Kodachrome's days are limited ya know? They have one production run per year now - and they may stop doing that very soon.
As for "lazy," that would be the mentality of people that video mode
on an SLR appeals to--too lazy to research Wikipedia and photography
magazines and realize just what an SLR is, and too lazy to study and
notice that Canon, Sony, Kodak, Olympus, Panasonic, TONS of companies
make point & shoots that take photos and videos--and that the SLR is
a different breed that shouldn't be dragged into the same arena.
Man you really make some strange points. Having video mode on a SLR has nothing to do with laziness. It is another creative aspect of visual capture.

You still don't seem to understand the creative possiblities you can achieve by having HD video with 35mm lenses to choose from- from 10.5 fisheys, to razor thin DOF with 1.4 primes, to ultra- sharp telephoto 200-400. you CANNOT get the same results from some point and shoot with video mode, or even a prosumer camcorder with a sensor 1/4 the size. Just wait until you see what some talented, creative people can do with video mode - it might just change a little of your dinosaur, elitist, purist ideals.
BTW, the people who want "just a phone" dont do it on some princinpal
that having the ability to do something else ruins the concept of a
phone. The iphone is still a phone.
Yep it sure is. And a GPS navigator, and a calculator, and I can find an indonesian restaurant wherver in the world I am ;-)
The iPhone is a phone, but it's not as good at just the phone aspects
as a "just a phone" is.
Ummm..actaully yes it is. Not sure how you can make that statement, since it is very obvious you have never used an iphone. I have had countless wireless devises, and probably 30 cell phones. You know what - the audio quality of the iphone is leaps and bounds above any of them - it sounds like you are speaking on a land line. I would say that makes the iphone better than other $200 'just a phone' cell phones.
It does it well enough for most people, heck
probably even me, but it doesn't do it as well.
See point above.
Anyone who's used a
real phone (particularly a landline) knows that its handset is much
more comfortable for long call durations than an iPhone--
Well you got me there - but obviously any land line phone is going to more comfortable than ANY wireless device/cell phone.
And yes, the iPhone
doing other things as a result it DOES compromise how good of a phone
it is.
No - again - it does better than any cell phone I have ever used - which are many.

But for most people, that's good enough--but if you're
extremely phone-conversation oriented and don't want extraneous
extras detracting from that, then it's not the way to go.

And SLRs are not iPhones, and never should be.
Thank god they aren't - otherwise you might just blow your top. We'd never hear the end of it.

'87.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot'

ShutterBugin
http://www.exposureproductions.smugmug.com

 
I have to diagree with you I've seen many photos posted here and I believe a properly exposed and composed photo from most any digital camera will be the best.

Yes to high iso, I never shoot above 800{ film days} so it does'nt mean to much to me I've yet to find a digital body that fits my hand better than my 70s, even my 200 does'nt.

I'm not trying to antognize anyone just that a video gimmick will not get me to buy just like heated seats in a car will not get me to buy it.

I handled a d80 phooy I like my 70s better, I could of had a d300 ,I chose my d200 I don't need live view, frind has both a d300, and a d700, the 700 I like but my 70s produces great photos when I do my part, I've compared them to a friends d80 I'll keep my 70s. Enjoy your 90, then the next one, and next one and pretty soon you can stay at home just send your d6000, out and you can watch tv.

Rubicon:
 
Yeah but what about the much better viewfinder and display, faster speed, better focusing, far better UI, ISO 100, faster operation, better battery life, sensor cleaning, greater crop ability, etc ?

I couldn't imagine shooting with a D70 seeing that things have improved so much since then.

Also, your analogy is kind of dumb. People are posting quite impressive videos on Vimeo made with the D90. Nobody could ever create something compelling with a heated seat.
 
Enjoy your 90, then the next one, and next one and pretty soon you can stay
at home just send your d6000, out and you can watch tv.

Rubicon:
You sound like an old man. You must hate modern cars, coffee makers and computers. The world was so much better when people hand wrote things, made their tea with leaves and a press (I still do) and drove 4000lb cars with fins that got 5mpg.

If the camera doesnt fit and feel right, dont buy it. The video feature isnt why I got it. I got it because its a better DSLR than what I had before (and was within my budget). The video is a bonus.

The only people who complain about the video feature detracting from it being an SLR must have never even played with a D90 since there is no way the video feature could possibly take away from its function as a camera. Its basically an extra option on LiveView, something that has existed on the Pro models for a bit.

The only way this is goign to ruin the DSLRs of the antagonist here is if, when a D90 owner fired up the caputure of the LiveView every DSLR on the planet, including his D40, D40x and D80 (and he claims I have more money than brains), exploded or their users became incapable of operating them. Otherwise everyone can go about their business of taking pictures (since its not actually photography :P)
 
I bought the D90 because it excels at many levels over prior consumer level Nikon DSLR's. It is hands down a superior camera to my D50 and the D200 I tried last year. I did not buy the D90 because it has video nor would I reject it because it has video. I have no idea if I will ever use the video feature, but when Christmas rolls around and the Grandkids are opening pictures I may very well welcome the video feature.

If you don’t have a need for video, don’t use it, I don't smoke so I don't use the ashtray in my truck. The same same can be said for shooting in raw, or using Commander Mode, or any of the other features found on the D90, simply ignore it if you don't need it. I know people who disdain flash and only shoot in natural light and they have no use for a pop-up flash, iTTL, or Commander Mode. I also know professional photographers who never take a shot without flash and/or flood lights, who state that photography is all about light and that it makes far more sense to adjust the light than it does to try and adjust the camera to the light.

I’d wager that the 920,000 HD LCD (which is fantastic and has to be seen to be believed) came out of the R&D that went into developing the video/live view mode. Essentially if a DSLR has live view it has video, it is after all a video feed that is being viewed on the LCD, and therefore everything physically needed, except firmware, is present for video.

The SLR has been around since the Fifties, but its demise is probably not to far in the future. Phil said it very well in his preview of the Lumix DMC-G1,

“When you consider the incredible flexibility offered by digital capture (unencumbered by the physical need to put the film behind the lens and to advance it frame by frame) it's perhaps surprising that the digital interchangeable lens camera has remained so firmly rooted in a basic design that hasn't changed since the 1950's. The single lens reflex does its job very well, but building a camera around a mirror box seriously ties the designer's hands - not only in the physical size and shape of the body, but in the lenses too “.

In the coming years there is going to be a virtual revolution in digital cameras, and the die-hard traditionalists will be too few to keep the DSLR’s profitable for companies like Nikon and Canon. Professionals will be forced to adopt new technology because their livelihood depends on it; tradition is a poor substitute for performance in the business world.

I was a U.S. Marine and the United States Marine Corps. Is strong on tradition, but tradition has never stopped them from adopting better training methods, new technology, or better weapons if it make the individual Marine a better fighting machine. I can’t understand people who stand on tradition and won’t accept that which may make them a better photographer. The D90 is the latest and best consumer model out of Nikon and the inclusion of video in no way diminishes its capabilities as a still-image camera.

--
Brooks
http://bmiddleton.smugmug.com/
 
BTW, Im not a fan of EVIL. Not because of the "principles of photograhpy." I am against it because my old Sony had it and it wasnt that good. The resolution of the optical viewfinder is very high. The resolution of those little screens, while becoming great, falls behind and I had troubles gauging sharpness on it.
Nobody could ever
create something compelling with a heated seat.
Depends on how far you take that analogy. :)
 
I state you are a hypocrite because you judge something that is
simply a feature that has no affect on the function of the SLR but
then justify using a digital sensor of DX size and calling it
photgraphy. It techincally (and traditionally isnt).
35mm film is not the definition of photography, if that's what you're implying. The word "photography" literally means to draw with light. It doesn't matter whether that light is being captured by a light-sensitive film, sensor, or something yet to be developed. Further, it doesn't matter how large the area is that the image is projected onto. To say that photography with a APS-C digital camera is not photography is ridiculous.
 

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