Hoya Pro1 Digital vs Super HMC

Steve Balcombe · Apr 15, 2008

I need to buy a couple of polarisers in smaller sizes, and I can't find a HK supplier for the B+W KSM filter - no problem getting the larger sizes but not 52mm. So I'm looking at Hoya and I've been reading everything I can find in an attempt to find out what the difference is between Pro1 Digital and Super HMC. Hoya's own literature is surprisingly evasive about the Pro1 Digital, describing it as simply 'multicoated' and not making the same claims that it does for Super HMC (S-HMC). Also, I have a couple of Pro1 Digital clear filters and they are marked MC on the rim, not S-HMC or even HMC. The polarisers could be different of course.

So has anyone ever been able to establish what the Pro1 Digital coating actually is? If you have a Pro1 Digital circular polariser, what does it say on the rim?

Or alternatively, does anybody know a reliable HK supplier of the 52mm Kaesemann filter? This is the filter I would prefer and I can get it in the UK, but the price is astronomical!

oldfartwitha5d · Apr 15, 2008

My Pro1 Digital CP 82mm is marked "MC PL-C". I asked B&H more or less the same Q: What's the better filter, Pro1 or S-HMC? Their answer was the Pro1. Hoya has published a PDF that describes things in more detail. I believe I found it on http://www.hoyafilter.com/ somewhere. I agree their documentation is confusing. The Pro1 CP page is here:

http://www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/pro1d-04.html

kenyee · Apr 15, 2008

and the pro1-D has an extra coating to prevent color changes (meaning the SHMC will have color changes under certain conditions).

No clue why they don't just put the scratch coating on the Pro1D as well.
FWIW, I picked up a SHMC recently...

thw · Apr 15, 2008

I work in an optics lab.

Recently, we evaluated the circular polarization properties of the SHMC and Pro1 Digital filters among many others (tested about 50 commercial pieces). Those 2 mentioned filters behave the same, and both are at the top of pack. The Moose filter is just as spectacular.

---------------------------
thw.smugmug.com

Steve Balcombe · Apr 15, 2008

oldfartwitha5d said:
My Pro1 Digital CP 82mm is marked "MC PL-C". I asked B&H more or less
the same Q: What's the better filter, Pro1 or S-HMC? Their answer was
the Pro1. Hoya has published a PDF that describes things in more
detail. I believe I found it on http://www.hoyafilter.com/ somewhere.
I agree their documentation is confusing. The Pro1 CP page is here:

http://www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/pro1d-04.html

I've read that before, but I took another look and I'm pleased I did - because there's a new page I hadn't seen before:

http://www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/HD-01.html

Sounds ideal - I think I'm going to wait until these become available next month.

photonius · Apr 15, 2008

Steve Balcombe said:
http://www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/HD-01.html

Sounds ideal - I think I'm going to wait until these become available
next month.

yup, just was about to say that. Actually I already posted a thread here for these filters.

As to the digital pro1's I've seen somewhere a claim that they are only 3 layers every side, not 6 as the Super HMC for UV.

Polarizers are coated differently

Steve Balcombe · Apr 15, 2008

photonius said:
Polarizers are coated differently

Yep, that's why I didn't want to assume they would be the same as my Pro1 Digital clear filters.

lightrules · Apr 15, 2008

that you'll ever discern. Both excellent filters. But I don't see how the Pro1 can do better than 99.7% light transmission (SHMC). If it does, say, 99.8%, hip hip hoorah. No big deal. But I've yet to see any numbers on it.

The pro1 is a slim design. That's about the main difference. At best, it seems the pro1 can only rival the SHMC.

kenyee · Apr 15, 2008

Curious if there's any difference..

Glimpse · Apr 15, 2008

Following is a reply from Glenn Nash, THK and my question concerning a Hoya filter by email:

(my question) Could you tell me if the Hoya Pro1 Digital series listed on your site is your latest and best product or is is one of the following newer and better?
http://hvstar.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=16
or
http://www.adorama.com/HY77CPLP1.html

(his answer) The second link is to the latest and greatest from Hoya. The first link is for the now discontinued S-HMC Pro 1 series.

thw · Apr 16, 2008

kenyee said:
Curious if there's any difference..

Unfortunately, we did not test the FPro filters. Sigh...

---------------------------
thw.smugmug.com

Steve Balcombe · Apr 16, 2008

Glimpse said:
Following is a reply from Glenn Nash, THK and my question concerning
a Hoya filter by email:

(my question) Could you tell me if the Hoya Pro1 Digital series
listed on your site is your latest and best product or is is one of
the following newer and better?
http://hvstar.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=16
or
http://www.adorama.com/HY77CPLP1.html

(his answer) The second link is to the latest and greatest from Hoya.
The first link is for the now discontinued S-HMC Pro 1 series.

That's interesting. I see now that while the S-HMC filters are described in the Hoya brochure here: http://www.hoyafilter.com/pdf/HOYACatalog.pdf , they are no longer shown here: http://www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/index.html

Looks like the new HD series directly replaces the equivalent s-HMC filters.

tom phillips · Apr 16, 2008

...but the Kenko is half the price on Ebay. The only difference is the name on the label as they are both part of THK (Tokina-Hoya-Kenko)
--
TomP

Steve Balcombe · Apr 16, 2008

tom phillips said:
...but the Kenko is half the price on Ebay. The only difference is
the name on the label as they are both part of THK (Tokina-Hoya-Kenko)

Yes, Hoya and Kenko are interchangeable, I have examples of both and I cannot tell them apart - except for the printing on the rim of course. If you take a look at hvstar.net you'll find that they sell both (according to availability I guess), at similar prices.

HarryLally · Apr 16, 2008

I recently bought 72mm Pro1 Digital CPL and UV filters from HK for my new 35 f1.4L. Nearly 2 years ago I bought 77mm Pro1 (non-Digital) filters for the 17-40 f4L. Apart from the writing on the side, the newer 'Digital' filters are very slightly deeper and have a knurled ring, making them easier to rotate. Apart fom that, I can't see a difference in performance. I visited CameraWorld in London to compare the newer Digital filters with the older standard Pro1's and was told the Digital filters have replaced the earlier Pro1 versions and they didn't have the latter in stock. Don't know if I was being told porkies or not.

I think it's just re-packaging for marketing reasons and I agree Hoya's marketing literature is (intentionally?) confusing.

Michael

HarryLally · Apr 16, 2008

Just checked the 67mm CPL for the 70-200 f4. It's of the older Pro1 (non-Digital) type, but is also deeper than the 77mm filters mentioned in my last post. It also has a knurled ring. So maybe at 77mm and above, the filters are especially thin so as not to cause vignetting at UWA.

Michael

mond817 · Apr 16, 2008

I own a B&W MRC UV fitler on my 24-70. I get it because I was so annoyed by being cautious all the time to protect the naked front piece. My off-topic is that have anyone tried pointing a flashlight at your glass from the sideway? After I cleaned the filter or the lens itself with either lens paper or microfiber, with a flashlight pointing from the sideway to the glass I see lots of tiny specks that I believe are lints from the lens paper or microfiber. They just stayed on forever no matter what I do. Of course I don't wanna do much in order to prolong the life of the MRC on top, but I get the B&W for its MRC that majority of users rated as the easiest to clean. Anybody see the same thing? Or it's just an outcome of my cheap cleaning equipment (actually they should be at least average-graded cleaning equipjment)? Sorry for being off topic but I guess this is the best thread to post.

P.S. I use the flashlight because I couldn't really check if my glass is cleaned under the nature of weak lights in my room.

photonius · Apr 16, 2008

Steve Balcombe said:
tom phillips said:

...but the Kenko is half the price on Ebay. The only difference is
the name on the label as they are both part of THK (Tokina-Hoya-Kenko)

Click to expand...

Yes, Hoya and Kenko are interchangeable, I have examples of both and
I cannot tell them apart - except for the printing on the rim of
course. If you take a look at hvstar.net you'll find that they sell
both (according to availability I guess), at similar prices.

Did you hold them at an angle against some light?

Do they have the same tint reflection?
I have two Hoya Digital PRO1 filters, and they are not exactly the same,
and the Kenko CPL that I have has a greenish tint,

see http://photonius.wikispaces.com/Filter+coatings

I wonder if Hoya Pro1 digital CPLs have also such a greenish tint.

Steve Balcombe · Apr 16, 2008

photonius said:
Steve Balcombe said:

tom phillips said:

...but the Kenko is half the price on Ebay. The only difference is
the name on the label as they are both part of THK (Tokina-Hoya-Kenko)

Click to expand...

Yes, Hoya and Kenko are interchangeable, I have examples of both and
I cannot tell them apart - except for the printing on the rim of
course. If you take a look at hvstar.net you'll find that they sell
both (according to availability I guess), at similar prices.

Click to expand...

Did you hold them at an angle against some light?

Do they have the same tint reflection?

I mean they are indistinguishable in their manufacturing. I don't have two filters of the same specification to compare something as subtle as the tint of the reflection.

In any case, if you have two Hoyas which are not the same, it would tell us nothing if a Hoya and a Kenko were different - or the same , for that matter.

photonius · Apr 17, 2008

Steve Balcombe said:
Steve Balcombe said:

Did you hold them at an angle against some light?

Do they have the same tint reflection?

Click to expand...

I mean they are indistinguishable in their manufacturing. I don't
have two filters of the same specification to compare something as
subtle as the tint of the reflection.

In any case, if you have two Hoyas which are not the same, it would
tell us nothing if a Hoya and a Kenko were different - or the same ,
for that matter.

Yes, quite right, but the green tint of the Kenko CPL was a much stronger different than the difference in tint between the two Hoya UV filters.

So, since I do no have the a Kenko UV, or A Hoya CPL, I can't compare if this is due to different brand, or different type of filter (uv versus CPL).

If some really had a - what looks like identical filter, i.e. a 72 Kenko UV, and a 77 Hoya UV, it would be interesting to see if there are differences in coating.

I think it is very likely that the glass is all the same, since Hoya is a big glass manufacturer, but the glass might still be coated in different places by Hoya and Kenko, it's not completely out of the question, since obviously there are different assembly lines anyway, one spitting out Kenko labelled filters, one Hoya.

Hoya Pro1 Digital vs Super HMC

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