European Union fostering more "control" over people's freedoms

Chato said:

BIJ001 said:

Chato said:

The recently defeated EU Constitution was over 200 pages long if I recall correctly.
But it was defeated. A good thing!
No Constitution should tell you how you should make your bed...

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Could you please point out on which page was it about bed making?

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Page 420, annex a, paragraph five...

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:2004:310:SOM:EN:HTML

Short and sweet document. Lawyers will certainly hold a party as no
other party in history has been held!

Click to expand...

Dave

I can't find any mention of beds?

What I do see are statements of rights I'd much rather be protected by than not - regardless of whether their codification is precisely worded or has to be further amended.

Any in particular you'd be prepared to renounce?

Peter

--
Peter - on the green island of Ischia
http://www.pbase.com/isolaverde

Isola Verde said:

Chato said:

BIJ001 said:

Isola Verde said:

The recently defeated EU Constitution was over 200 pages long if I recall correctly.
But it was defeated. A good thing!
No Constitution should tell you how you should make your bed...

Click to expand...

Could you please point out on which page was it about bed making?

Click to expand...

Page 420, annex a, paragraph five...

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:2004:310:SOM:EN:HTML

Short and sweet document. Lawyers will certainly hold a party as no
other party in history has been held!

Click to expand...

Dave

I can't find any mention of beds?

What I do see are statements of rights I'd much rather be protected
by than not - regardless of whether their codification is precisely
worded or has to be further amended.

Any in particular you'd be prepared to renounce?

Peter

Click to expand...

I for one I'm prepared to renounce to any not included in life, freedom and the pursuit of happiness (Well maybe this last one is unnecessary too)

And while documents like that the proposal of the EU constitution and the institutions who promote them, or concepts like Europe for that matter (or similarly UN, human rights declaration, etc), may not explicitly attempt to eliminate those three rights, certainly do nothing good for its promotion.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html

Isola Verde said:

Chato said:

BIJ001 said:

Isola Verde said:

The recently defeated EU Constitution was over 200 pages long if I recall correctly.
But it was defeated. A good thing!
No Constitution should tell you how you should make your bed...

Click to expand...

Could you please point out on which page was it about bed making?

Click to expand...

Page 420, annex a, paragraph five...

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:2004:310:SOM:EN:HTML

Short and sweet document. Lawyers will certainly hold a party as no
other party in history has been held!

Click to expand...

Dave

I can't find any mention of beds?

What I do see are statements of rights I'd much rather be protected
by than not - regardless of whether their codification is precisely
worded or has to be further amended.

Any in particular you'd be prepared to renounce?

Peter

Click to expand...

Constitutions are frameworks for laws. They are meant for all time. The longer they are, the more there is to haggle over, not just immediately, but in the future. I innitially said that this document was over 200 pages - My bad, it's over 400 pages. Is every right covered? Can we assume that if it's not mentioned specifially, that it doesn't exist? Here in the States we are doing our best to protect our rights. Rights, not explicity named... But all rights NOT named, are stated to belong to the people. Our Fourth Amendment about privacy has no mention of telephones, e-mail, etc, etc. Nonetheless, for the government to take them away, they have to prove that I don't have a right, I don't have to prove that I do.

This is exactly what our Founders wrote. They didn't embed everything in our Constitution because they feared they would leave something out, or a future development would alter relationships. That naming all rights, they would protect no rights. Some hot shot lawyer would find a legal loophole to do what they wanted to. For example the only rights mentioned in our body off text, are the right to a jury of your peers and Habeus Corpus - Two rights, without which, no other right is safe. The language is "CRYSTAL CLEAR," could not possibly be clearer. Yet our Attorney General assures us that it doesn't say what it clearly does. And your 400 page tome?

This may be a simplistic answer, but no American has to wonder whether he's going to go to jail because he printed up some anti-Muslim cartoon.

Ultimately the power of a Constitution rests on the willingness to obey it. When all is said and done, it's just paper. I happen to be ready and willing to treat my Constitution as the law of the land, from beginning to end. I can do this because it IS a framework and not a snapshot of the moment.

Dave

igb said:

Isola Verde said:

Chato said:

BIJ001 said:

igb said:

The recently defeated EU Constitution was over 200 pages long if I recall correctly.
But it was defeated. A good thing!
No Constitution should tell you how you should make your bed...

Click to expand...

Could you please point out on which page was it about bed making?

Click to expand...

Page 420, annex a, paragraph five...

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:2004:310:SOM:EN:HTML

Short and sweet document. Lawyers will certainly hold a party as no
other party in history has been held!

Click to expand...

Dave

I can't find any mention of beds?

What I do see are statements of rights I'd much rather be protected
by than not - regardless of whether their codification is precisely
worded or has to be further amended.

Any in particular you'd be prepared to renounce?

Peter

Click to expand...

I for one I'm prepared to renounce to any not included in life,
freedom and the pursuit of happiness (Well maybe this last one is
unnecessary too)

And while documents like that the proposal of the EU constitution and
the institutions who promote them, or concepts like Europe for that
matter (or similarly UN, human rights declaration, etc), may not
explicitly attempt to eliminate those three rights, certainly do
nothing good for its promotion.

Click to expand...

Don't be so quick to renounce "pursuit of happiness." At the time that the Declaration of Independence was written, it meant the ability to live your life unimpeded by the State. It meant the same thing as the Ancient Greeks who wrote about "The Good Life."

Dave

igb said:

-------------------------------------------------------
My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html

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What's possible in UK would not be possible in France, Holland, Germany, Belgium,...

UK is somewhat aloof as far as EU is concerned. Not part of the monetary union, supporting the oil war, etc... that last fact makes them "more US than EU", at least to those in EU living on the mainland. And that same fact is also responsible for the facts in the article you refer to.

Another example of the difference between UK and EU is the way airline passengers are treated. The unwritten rule right now is; when flying internationally, choose Frankfurt, or Charles De Gaule, or Schiphol ...but avoid Heathrow like the plague. That says it all.

--
Ciao,

J.

What is an 'oil war' and why do they support it? Eager to learn.
--
Windmills, just do it.

Peter A. Stavrakoglou said:

I'm not dodging your point, I'm a bit too busy for anything other
than a quickl response. You see, I actually got out to take some
photos today with my SD14 and 18-200mm DC OS lens. I'm processing
and uploading. BTW, all of these photos from the DP1 are making me
want one.

Click to expand...

Peter, Peter, Peter, aren't you aware that Bush issued an executive order banning reductions in the price of the DPI? And that both Obama and Clinton suport this order?

This strikes close to home as I have a giant bottle in which I have been putting nickels and dimes, SOLELY for the purpose of buying the DP1. Only $500 in it I might add. I really can't justify buying a P&S that costs more than $150 - Thus the jar...

And you claim the Consitution isn't going down the tubes...

Dave

Chato said:

And who would doubt her?

Click to expand...

Many (probably including you) would, simply because if it's not reported by the corporate media it obviously didn't happen...

--
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources

-- Albert Einstein

Chato said:

Chato said:

Could you please point out on which page was it about bed making?

Click to expand...

Page 420, annex a, paragraph five...

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:2004:310:SOM:EN:HTML

Short and sweet document. Lawyers will certainly hold a party as no
other party in history has been held!

Click to expand...

Tanks for the hint.

I went through it however and I am afraid it is not about bed making.

As you make your bed, so you must sleep in it.

Chato said:

Don't be so quick to renounce "pursuit of happiness." At the time
that the Declaration of Independence was written, it meant the
ability to live your life unimpeded by the State.

Click to expand...

That's my understanding, but isn't that a sound definition of what freedom is?
--
-------------------------------------------------------
My Galleries: http://webs.ono.com/igonzalezbordes/index.html

Jonathan Demarais said:

One day, Europeans will wake up to the horrifying fact that their
governments are basically their biggest self-perpetuating,
self-regulating businesses, rife with corruption, sloth and nepotism,
answerable to no one.

Click to expand...

You mean like here in the states?...

Jonathan Demarais said:

Oh yeah, the elections they hold every so
often? Change very little of the basic infrastructure.

Click to expand...

Jonathan Demarais said:

The European Union (EU) is encouraging photographers to take part in
a street photography competition that, under strict rules, requires
permission from all people being photographed.

Click to expand...

This is perfectly standard for a competition where the organisers want to make sure they have the rights to display, use, archive, etc. the winning entries.

Move along, nothing to see here (except some political arson at work).

BIJ001 said:

BIJ001 said:

BIJ001 said:

Could you please point out on which page was it about bed making?

Click to expand...

Page 420, annex a, paragraph five...

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:2004:310:SOM:EN:HTML

Short and sweet document. Lawyers will certainly hold a party as no
other party in history has been held!

Click to expand...

Tanks for the hint.

I went through it however and I am afraid it is not about bed making.

As you make your bed, so you must sleep in it.

Click to expand...

To take my joke seriously...

Dave

marcuson said:

Chato said:

And who would doubt her?

Click to expand...

Many (probably including you) would, simply because if it's not
reported by the corporate media it obviously didn't happen...

--
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources

-- Albert Einstein

Click to expand...

It sounded to me as "an off the cuff" remark. Did she Really mean "bin Laden?" I think the interviewer thought that remark a slip of the tongue. And I thought the remark was a slip of the tongue. If she was ready to make such a statement, she certainly didn't need a question from the interviewer to repeat it ad infinitum.

One wonders about her special position to know of such things, when no one else does? Ah well, how about she was really assassinated because "she knew too much?" Maybe the hit squad was led by Babs and Jenna Bush - Light stuff for them after they personally took down the WTC.

Dave

We should be more tolerant towards the OP.

After all, he's a Canadian, getting out of hibernation unexpectedly early and still looking for his glasses and hearing aids.

Chato said:

Peter A. Stavrakoglou said:

I'm not dodging your point, I'm a bit too busy for anything other
than a quickl response. You see, I actually got out to take some
photos today with my SD14 and 18-200mm DC OS lens. I'm processing
and uploading. BTW, all of these photos from the DP1 are making me
want one.

Click to expand...

Peter, Peter, Peter, aren't you aware that Bush issued an executive
order banning reductions in the price of the DPI? And that both Obama
and Clinton suport this order?
This strikes close to home as I have a giant bottle in which I have
been putting nickels and dimes, SOLELY for the purpose of buying the
DP1. Only $500 in it I might add. I really can't justify buying a P&S
that costs more than $150 - Thus the jar...

And you claim the Consitution isn't going down the tubes...

Dave

Click to expand...

McCain has promised a DP1 in every pot. He's my man!
--
My humble photo gallery: http://ntotrr.smugmug.com

Peter A. Stavrakoglou said:

Chato said:

Peter A. Stavrakoglou said:

I'm not dodging your point, I'm a bit too busy for anything other
than a quickl response. You see, I actually got out to take some
photos today with my SD14 and 18-200mm DC OS lens. I'm processing
and uploading. BTW, all of these photos from the DP1 are making me
want one.

Click to expand...

Peter, Peter, Peter, aren't you aware that Bush issued an executive
order banning reductions in the price of the DPI? And that both Obama
and Clinton suport this order?
This strikes close to home as I have a giant bottle in which I have
been putting nickels and dimes, SOLELY for the purpose of buying the
DP1. Only $500 in it I might add. I really can't justify buying a P&S
that costs more than $150 - Thus the jar...

And you claim the Consitution isn't going down the tubes...

Dave

Click to expand...

McCain has promised a DP1 in every pot. He's my man!
--

Click to expand...

I'll say this for McCain, even though I'm not going to vote for him. He did promise to discontine these signing statements.

Dave

yeah on the surface it sounds stupid for street photography needing a model release for everyone but if you read the whole article it talks of using the winning photos in promotional brochures and whatnot. And imagine the crying foul that would go on if any of us saw a photo of us in a brochure that we hadn't signed off on.

aussiemic

LeRentier said:

when you say :
"my patience for fascist attitudes is wearing thin nowadays"
does that mean that a person who does not want you to take his/her
picture, and smacks you in the face if you insist, becomes a fascist ?

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That would be an impossibility. If anyone asked
me to not take their photo, I'd immediately comply.
It's called being civil.

But if anyone tried to bash my camera just because
I'm holding it in a public place and "they heard about
all those internet pedophiles" or some other equally
deranged fascist attitude, all bets would be open.

marcuson said:

LeRentier said:

nobody in Europe has any idea about where
Ben Laden might be

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He's long dead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

Benazir Bhutto, before her death, telling David Frost that Osama bin
Laden (the alleged cause for the war in Afghanistan) was murdered,
and nobody here in the media in the US is asking any questions.
Frost himself did not even ask a follow-up question to her claim. Why?

Click to expand...

Easy, keep the boogie man threat alive, you can make all your citizens follow you and believe in whatever you say blindly. Do you remember how bin laden suddenly pop his head out just before the last election when GWB got re-elected? Who knows?