Reading mode: Light Dark

anyone considering DSLR ?? D60? D100? SD9 ?

Go to last post
Georgi said:
TotalDesignZ.com wrote:
I'm going to have to agree with AD.

Personally, if I could justify the cost right now, I would get a
DSLR in a heartbeat. More than likely a Canon because I simply like
their lenses better.
I AM however going to wait till they come out with a chip that's
the size of 35mm film and it would have to be Canon or Nikon.
Again, I'd rather have Canon so I can slap that 85/1.2L lens on
there. LOVE IT!

There's nothing like being able to put the lens you want on there
to do the job and not being limited to just whatever comes on the
camera.

I like my 505V and 707 but there's just something missing and it's
just too hard to work with when you get up close to something
compared to a full size SLR.

Interchangeable viewfinders (curse canon for not having that
anymore) and all kinds of cool stuff.

ALso, when you have to start putting all kinds of converters and
stuff (most of them will not be of good quality but in all cases,
they will lower the quality of the image) on a lens, then you don't
have the lens you really need.

Nothing like shooting lifesize (1:1) macro from a 200mm lens and
standing a good distance away from the subject.

Or....putting a tiny 500mm mirror lens that you can shoot handheld
with or maybe one of them huge 800/5.6's if you can afford one :)

Nah, it's just not the same thing

George
Click to expand...
No it's not the same thing, and while you and AD have raised very valid points for D-SLRs, again, you have also pointed out the disadvantages that some see in D-SLRs - High costs, massive care and maintainence, high costs, too many lenses and items to worry about, high costs, heavy weight, etc.

There's no denying a D-SLR will provide superior and satisfactory images, but at what cost to you?

If you can live with lugging around a lot of lenses, flashes and other equipment, protective cases and puches, worrying about keeping dust off the (currently) APS-sized CCD, maintaining the condition of every piece of equipment, etc., then by all means, I admire your dedication and diligence.

I for one, cannot afford the time or money to be able to take macros at 200mm from 20 feet away, select the right lenses to be able to take pictures of caribous crossing the river or the humming bird in mid-flight, or dust each and every lens, camera part, etc. (Which I will do because I am the type of person - and I am sure most of you are too - who takes care of my equipment seriously - both for personal satisfaction and for a better re-sale value in the future.)

Thanks for your opinions and insights though, I did enjoy reading them.

--
Tigadee
Keep On Snappin'!
http://www.pbase.com/tigadee
 
Shawn85616 said:
Is a DSLR better than my F707? I'd have to say yes. Even the E-10,
a 4mp camera seems to take better pics than the F707. The ability
to add lenses is also a major plus. But I just can't afford
something like that right now.
Click to expand...
One assumption here is you current do not have any lenses ...

With that, D-SLR under the current state isnt really such a good investment unless you have a dying requirement that the F707 cannot fill. I myself have to shot macro shots at far distance, so the F707 already placed a road block on that. But even then at the current price level and state of improvement D-SLR just does not make sense for me.

A few years down the road we are also keeping the possibility of publishing books open, so it may not be wise to go with existing D-SLRs. But who knows.

Two years you wont even think about a D-SLR body unless you have over 5K. Today you can get better ones at 2/5 of the price. Things will only be better 2 years from now.

My advice? If you do not need D-SLR right now, then dont worry about it today. New models and technology will be introduced every year. When you are ready to buy, then do your research based on what will be available at that time. It is pretty hard to say how good they will be when "they" dont exist yet.

--
jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery
 
JLN said:
I love my 707, really, but ...

When I look ot thoses wonderfull lenses you can put on thoses SLRs ...
And autofocus ... how manytime, shooting macro with my 707 I
thought I was right in focus, and then uploading on my computer ...
:-(
At least thoses 2 elements are pushing me to DSLR, but ...

weight, size, spare lenses ...

I just do'nt know ...

JLN

--
F707, BFS finally fixed ...
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=2332
http://www.pbase.com/jln
Click to expand...
I have a d100 on order because my 707 (despite the lovely pictures it can take outdoors) has problems with indoor flash photography of moving subjects (mostly kids). The 1/40th shutter and f2 default gets me a lot of ambient lightblurring and when I switch to manual forced flash to increase the shutter speed and stop down the EVF goes dark (a serious bug that Sony should fix..). Then there's the blue shift that occurs in Manual Flash because the camera is reading the warm ambient light for color balance. I could never figure out why manual Mode disables color balance selection.

Also indoor shooting of family often demands a bit more wide angle than the 707 can do without ungainly attachments.

My wife finds the 707 hard to use for indoor flash and has no problems with our Nikon - so I will move to the D100 as soon as its available.
 
Hey there, Glenn -

I understand totally your beef(s) with the DA and the struggle you've had with some of its issues. I'm sure that for what you've been trying to achieve, the D-SLR was practically a foregone conclusion. I'm glad that you've found something that will hopefully fulfill your every digicam desire. :)

But I do have one question for you: You really gonna let your wife use it?? :)
Glenn said:
My wife finds the 707 hard to use for indoor flash and has no
problems with our Nikon - so I will move to the D100 as soon as its
available.
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
 
JLN said:
I love my 707, really, but ...

When I look ot thoses wonderfull lenses you can put on thoses SLRs ...
And autofocus ... how manytime, shooting macro with my 707 I
thought I was right in focus, and then uploading on my computer ...
:-(
At least thoses 2 elements are pushing me to DSLR, but ...

weight, size, spare lenses ...

I just do'nt know ...

JLN

--
F707, BFS finally fixed ...
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=2332
http://www.pbase.com/jln
Click to expand...
You got exactly the points I was thinking about a DSLR (D60). And I allready own some good Canon lenses. But at the end I stay with the DA.
You also gave the points NOT to go with DSLR. Weight, size, spare lenses.
That's why I started digital. :)

Detlef
 
Folks, it depends how pick you are. I really like the size and weight of my 707, and the size tripod I can get away with. I'm not happy with the noise level at all and will most likley by a DSLR in the next 6 months after I see what Forveon and Nikon come out with.

My buddy's Fuji S1, at 3 megapixles blows my Sony away for noise and tonal gradation.
Chip
 
Chip,

I have read this thread with interest.

Please tell me a little about the Fuji S1. I re-read Phil's Fuji S1 review and he said it was noisy compared to the other cameras in its class. So, even though the Fuji S1 has more noise than the Canon D30, it will still blow away the Sony F707?

David Clark
Chip Greenberg said:
My buddy's Fuji S1, at 3 megapixles blows my Sony away for noise
and tonal gradation.
Chip
Click to expand...
 
My next camera will have, for sure, a histogram option and a generic flash hotshoe. Will it be a full SLR? Only time will say.

Regards, Yehuda
JLN said:
I love my 707, really, but ...

When I look ot thoses wonderfull lenses you can put on thoses SLRs ...
And autofocus ... how manytime, shooting macro with my 707 I
thought I was right in focus, and then uploading on my computer ...
:-(
At least thoses 2 elements are pushing me to DSLR, but ...

weight, size, spare lenses ...

I just do'nt know ...

JLN

--
F707, BFS finally fixed ...
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=2332
http://www.pbase.com/jln
Click to expand...
 
Dave, to be fair, my buddy and I shoot different subjects. I haven’t shot landscapes at the end of the day with low light with the Fuji yet. But I have posted here before, and I’m quite disappointed wit h my 707’s results. Very noisy. Even slightly polarized blue skies are noisy to me.

My buddy shoots mostly people. I have seen a few shots w/blue skies from the Fuji that looked great, though most of his work is with people. Smooth tonal range. No noise visible to me. He printed 13x19 on his Epson last week that was stunning. A low light portrait of an older woman.

His Fuji is what convinced me to go digital. I didn’t really want to carry around a brick like the Fuji, and thought the 707’s quality would be close. Reading things like "the best quality this side of a $5000 D1x " may have skewed my expectations. Now I’m convinced I should carry the extra weight! I’m sitting tight to see what the next gen of DSLRs brings. I'm not giving too much credit to the reviews, and will rent, bet, borrow or steal ( well not steal) one of these DSLR's too see how it works with what I shoot before making a purchase
Chip
dave clark said:
I have read this thread with interest.

Please tell me a little about the Fuji S1. I re-read Phil's Fuji
S1 review and he said it was noisy compared to the other cameras in
its class. So, even though the Fuji S1 has more noise than the
Canon D30, it will still blow away the Sony F707?

David Clark
Chip Greenberg said:
My buddy's Fuji S1, at 3 megapixles blows my Sony away for noise
and tonal gradation.
Chip
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
My G2 is going to be surpassed by a D60 later this year. I was going to do it in July but decided that my Pentium 2 400 with 128 megs of Ram would struggle with RAW's from the D60.

So it's the Pc first and the camera second.

I'm also keen to hear the wisdom of Ron before I slap down 2 big ones :-)

Rob
JLN said:
I love my 707, really, but ...

When I look ot thoses wonderfull lenses you can put on thoses SLRs ...
And autofocus ... how manytime, shooting macro with my 707 I
thought I was right in focus, and then uploading on my computer ...
:-(
At least thoses 2 elements are pushing me to DSLR, but ...

weight, size, spare lenses ...

I just do'nt know ...

JLN

--
F707, BFS finally fixed ...
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=2332
http://www.pbase.com/jln
Click to expand...
 
Ulysses said:
I understand totally your beef(s) with the DA and the struggle
you've had with some of its issues. I'm sure that for what you've
been trying to achieve, the D-SLR was practically a foregone
conclusion. I'm glad that you've found something that will
hopefully fulfill your every digicam desire. :)

But I do have one question for you: You really gonna let your wife
use it?? :)
Glenn said:
My wife finds the 707 hard to use for indoor flash and has no
problems with our Nikon - so I will move to the D100 as soon as its
available.
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Click to expand...
Yup - I certainly want her to use it. She could never quite get the hang of the Sony 505 or 707 - but uses the Nikon all the time. The Nikon is not too heavy - and focuses and shoots flash fast enough to catch the kids being cute before they move on - but film costs are a real drag - and custom prints are a pain unless I scan the negatives.

The D100 will probably be sitting out where she can grab it.

Its interesting how my wife quickly identifies and disgards technology which is not truly useful- where I will work at it for a long time to try to master it.

If I get the D100 and it doesn't work right she'll spot it right a way.
 
Before you leap analyse your needs. We can only give you our experiences, the rest is up to you.

In the film era I had an EOS1N and for P+S I carried along a Ricoh R1. Whilst the Ricoh was super handy, the quality lagged behind. To improve the image I even got the Nikon 35Ti and a Contax T2...well the SLR still won. I like the handy size but could not live with the quality.

Today I have the EOS D60 and the F707. The DSLR still wins on quality, no question especially in the dark, shadow area, especially noticeable in the shots where there are car tyres. The CMOS D60 registers the tyre name etc but the 707 clips them.

The resolution is far better than the 5 vs 6 MP would suggest. It is the lens, Carl Zeiss notwithstanding.

The 707 is hardly a pocketable camera so hanging a 707 or a D60 off your shoulder makes little difference.

The DOF is another problem with the 707 vs DSLR, one can't get the shallow DOF effect with the 707. This effect may be important to you.

The live preview LCD is a big plus but only for rough composition. It and the EVF are not enough for focus confirmation. The DSLR wins. I am bugged when I don't know the exact focus point.

The AF problem of the D60 is a minor one unless you are using lenses with small apertures. Sure it hunts but it is getting focus confirmation. The F707 catches focus faster but on what? I won't really know until I view it on the monitor.

BUT... if your needs do not scale the heights of the DSLR then stay with the 707,

If you are critical about the quality, then move on up and get the DSLR. Which one depends on the lenses you like/already have.

Sorry, I know I will get some flames but the 707 does not match the DSLR for overall quality in the pictures. But it is the best of the rest...

Of course the DSLR is going to be more expensive(quite an bit more)...but if you want to just enjoy photography, the 707 is eminently easy to use and has so many features built in like macro and a 5x zoom. But also has nonsense features like 3fps burst.

The D60 is not that heavy but the lenses are. But the lenses don't get obsolete...camera(DSLR) bodies do but I reckon 6MP is going to be the working standard for quite a while.

Sad to say I have got an offer for the 707 and it is the one I am deciding to part with.

I think, many are enthralled by the F707, this is afterall a Sony forum(try posting this question at he Canon/Nikon forum) but some will stay with the Sony 707 and others will move on up, no doubt about that.

Like I said, analyse your needs first.

Andre Lam
 
It's taken a few months of reading the reviews and fora on here to understand why it's going to be years until a non-DSLR will give me the capability I need to photograph my chief interest. It's commonly very lowlight and moving people are the subject - and flash is not an acceptable disturbance most of the time. I've been shooting in that milieu with my CP 950 so I can see what's needed and the bottom line is I need F1.4 & ISO800 or equivalent - and that's rock bottom minimum. Fast, accurate AF is close to a necessity but I'm willing to live with a fairly low success rate - the DOF with 50mm @F1.4 at a distance of 15 feet is all of 2.5 ft!

The size and weight of DSLRs puts me off but for this particular circumstance they're not a big deal. I've decided I'll just use a different camera for everything else. I was worried about the dust problem but needing F1.4 pretty much dictates I'll stick to a single, non-zoom lens so there shouldn't be too much trouble with that.

Naturally, I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of the D100 since it's ISO specs are most encouraging but I'm worried about how much hype there is in the numbers they are quoting. If it's really 2.75 stops more sensitive than the D60 and the noise isn't terrible, I'll be happy. (From the D100 pics that are floating around with comparable ones from the D60, the prognosis for that much difference is not good. Even comparing the EV settings of the D100@ISO200 and @ISO6400, the real differece is 4 stops not 5.)

If the D100 sensitivity is less than a stop greater than the D60 then it will all come down to the AF.

The worst of it is that I'd probably have to try the AF in the live situation before I could tell if either one can hit it with any consistency - and I don't expect those camera's will be available to try out for a long time for an amateur like me. Well, maybe the D100 will draw rave reviews for it's lowlight AF, since the D60 has been pretty hit pretty hard for it's failing in that area and it would be a competitive edge for the D100 to handle it well. I'm also considering the possibility of having to step up to the 1D or D1X level as a last resort.
JLN said:
I love my 707, really, but ...

When I look ot thoses wonderfull lenses you can put on thoses SLRs ...
And autofocus ... how manytime, shooting macro with my 707 I
thought I was right in focus, and then uploading on my computer ...
:-(
At least thoses 2 elements are pushing me to DSLR, but ...

weight, size, spare lenses ...

I just do'nt know ...

JLN

--
F707, BFS finally fixed ...
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=2332
http://www.pbase.com/jln
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top