B&H says posting/using PMA coupon codes is dishonest

Peter Nelson said:

Members of the same family owns both B&H and Adorama, but different
family members.
--

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I did not know that. But I assume that they do not cooperate in their pricing - that would be illegal.

--
A catch of life

which company is this thread about?

ed rader
--



'One often has mixed feelings about relatives, but few people could identify serious problems in their relationships with dogs.'

-- Anonymous

I just bought a 70-200mm F2.8 L IS lens from B&H a few weeks ago with a code. I got it from this forum. I don't think I am being dishonest...nor do I think it's unethical.

But that's me...I would have done the same thing as the OP. I would have hung up, and stopped buying from B&H.

Right now...with this post, I am seriously thinking about not buying from B&H Photo Video anymore. They are a great company...but there are other great companies out there...I really like Adorama...Adorama packaged my lenses the best...better than B&H...Adorama put a lot of cushion in my lenses. For all my future lens buys, I will focus only on Adorama...no more B&H for me. B&H is a big company...they can afford to lose my business...it won't hurt them.

I am the customer...we are the customers...

In my work as a programmer/analyst, the customer is always right. I stand by my decision...no more B&H for me. I don't care if they got the lowest price! I go with the OP!

Danny Tuason

Its a business model that has the net effect of increasing future sales. They cannot condone the use of the codes by non show attendees, however, for risk of breaking contracts with vendors to not sell below set retail numbers. B&H's competitors, however, do have legitimate issues with these codes being available on the net!
--
thank Canon for L and BMW for M

From my personal experience, I found Amazon photography equipment - and other electronics prices on Amazon quite high for the most part. Much higher than B&H and other reputable stores. However, their sales prices are sometimes lower. However, their sales are many times only for a short duration - like one day. Having said that, I purchase all my books there - you can't beat the cost - and it's free shipping over $25.

Back to photography equipment: I get 90% of my photo equipment at B&H. Their prices are fair - many times lower than other reputable stores - and their customer service is way above average. So......once in a while you get a sales person that's having a bad hair day - that's life!

Maria
--

fjellfalck said:

Peter Nelson said:

Members of the same family owns both B&H and Adorama, but different
family members.
--

Click to expand...

I did not know that. But I assume that they do not cooperate in their
pricing - that would be illegal.

-

Click to expand...

Not true (the relationship). Read Henry Posner's response.
--
Bob Sheldon
Photo Gallery at
http://www.bobsheldon.com

Rick Knepper said:

henryp said:

This is simply and completely incorrect. markups in the electronics
business, particularly for the genres sold by stores like B&H and the
others you mentioned, are notoriously slim.

Click to expand...

Couple of random thoughts here:

3.) It is clear that B&H has authorized the coupons at Supercoupon,
if not explicitly then implicitly.

I don't have the energy to finish the rest of the thread so I will
not know whether or not my statements are redundant.

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Not true. Read Henry Posner's response on how B&H tries to get these removed from the net.

Bob Sheldon
Photo Gallery at
http://www.bobsheldon.com

mfurman said:

I came to this thread late but I cannot believe that adults with some
life experience would be writing such silly things. You guys would
not survive 5 minutes in a tougher (to live country) than the US.
--
Michael

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The responses that crack me up are yours. People with life experience know that when a company offers a coupon on an item they've been on the border about buying, now is the time to pull the trigger by using the coupon. 9 times out of 10 it was the price of the item that kept them from justifying the purchase.

Let me ask you something. If your mother mailed you a B&H coupon that she clipped out of a local New York newspaper would you use it? (I'm assuming you live somewhere where you would have never known about this coupon had your mother not mailed it to you. If you tell me that you wouldn't, you're lying.

And, Michael, I'm afraid you're the one that would not survive in a "tougher" country. You'd be like the new prisoner, because you, among others, enjoy being taken advantage of.

I think it's ridiculous for the operator to suggest that. It's entirely unrealistic to think that they can't and won't be shared, regardless of the means being through internet forums or face to face.

If I went to the show myself and received the codes for being there, I would readily share them with any photographer friends that weren't able to attend the show. People tap into unadvertised markets in all industries when possible.

If they really want to prevent the sharing of the codes then they need to issue personalized coupon codes that can only be used once to each attendee of the show.

Rick Knepper said:

3.) It is clear that B&H has authorized the coupons at Supercoupon,
if not explicitly then implicitly.

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It is clear that you've jumped to an unwarranted and incorrect conclusion. B&H has approached SuperCoupon REPEATEDLY and asked them to stop allowing the B&H promo codes to be posted and to delete them and to communicate our feelings on this matter to whoever it is who has posted them to no avail.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

ed rader said:

by raising prices the amount of the rebate and then lying about it.

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Gee whiz, are we dredging this up again, and misrepresenting the facts to boot? A programmer changing our database inadvertently programmed an add instead of a subtract when adding rebates to a handful of items. The minute we realized what had happened we corrected the problem and made sure that any customer accidentally mis-charged received a full refund BEFORE we were asked by a customer to do so.

(Ed: Matthew 7:3)

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

henryp said:

therickman said:

Also, the markup is so incredibly high, that even with a
5%, 10% or even 15% coupon discount, they are still making profits
hand over fist.

Click to expand...

This is simply and completely incorrect. markups in the electronics
business, particularly for the genres sold by stores like B&H and the
others you mentioned, are notoriously slim.

Click to expand...

Completely not true henryp.

I was in the industry for 11 years. I know the costs of goods, markup, markdowns, and profit margins. A company will never, NEVER offer discounts on lead sellers (key word here: "lead") that bring their profit margin on those items to zero, or relatively near zero. For general purposes, after all discounts to the retail ticket price, profits are still typically a minimum of 15% above cost - and on a discount-reduced item of $1000, thats still a $150 profit. Now multiply that by tens, hundreds, or thousands of transactions weekly, and they've made some serious money, and, more importantly, resulted in loyal customers (known as "customer retention"). Use of discounts/coupons improves business and profits. Otherwise, companies wouldn't use them. It's marketing. These coupon discounts are quite beneficial to B&H as "loss leaders" - especially when they aren't even a "loss" to begin with. Shoot, everybody on this site shops there ( I don't, I but from Adorama) so they have very good retention, and I'm sure it's because of the discounts.

Add to that the fact that many online retailers have minimal overhead (ie: no warehousing, no rented retail space, etc.) compared to brick and morter stores, so they are able to keep prices lower than the competition. And even brick & morter stores have lower prices for their online stores compared to their physical stores b/c of minimal overhead in that division.

And third, even if a company made only $1 on a $1500 item b/c of discounts, free shipping, etc., it adds to their bottom line. At the end of the week, $101,500 in sales is better than $100,000. A company would rather have sold that item at little to no profit because every day it sits on the shelf, it's taking up space and is costing them $$.

--
'Obviously, you're not a golfer.' - the Dude (Lebowski)

dtuason said:

I just bought a 70-200mm F2.8 L IS lens from B&H a few weeks ago with
a code. I got it from this forum. I don't think I am being
dishonest...nor do I think it's unethical.

But that's me...I would have done the same thing as the OP. I would
have hung up, and stopped buying from B&H.

Right now...with this post, I am seriously thinking about not buying
from B&H Photo Video anymore. They are a great company...but there
are other great companies out there...I really like Adorama...Adorama
packaged my lenses the best...better than B&H...Adorama put a lot of
cushion in my lenses. For all my future lens buys, I will focus only
on Adorama...no more B&H for me. B&H is a big company...they can
afford to lose my business...it won't hurt them.

I am the customer...we are the customers...

In my work as a programmer/analyst, the customer is always right. I
stand by my decision...no more B&H for me. I don't care if they got
the lowest price! I go with the OP!

Danny Tuason

Click to expand...

The customer is not always right ... you obviously do not have a long term career in the retail field ... believe me the customer is not always right and it is worth the hassle to tell them at times!

therickman said:

For general purposes, after all discounts to the retail ticket price,
profits are still typically a minimum of 15% above cost - and on a
discount-reduced item of $1000, thats still a $150 profit.

Click to expand...

When I laugh this hard, my ribs ache.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

Henry P -

Two direct questions/scenarios for you as a representative of B&H:

1 - Does B&H still make a profit when the coupon codes are used?

If yes, then what's it matter if someone happens upon the code, and buys from your store instead of Beach Camera or Adorama because it saved them five bucks?? They will be more inclined to buy from you again, and isn't that the ultimate goal of a business? (Yes, it is by the way.)

If no, then you're using these codes as a loss-leader, and you're relying on your fantastic customer service, quality control, and variety of products to retain these new customers as loyal B&H shoppers. So, calling a customer who illegitimately used a coupon code "dishonest" is not serving your interest as a retailer. I'd have a talk with that rogue representative. You never insult, offend, or pass judgement on a customer. Whether you respect them or not, they are a paying customer and you may be losing $10,000+ in future sales because of one slip of the tongue. If your company can eat that loss, good for you. But many a company in the electronics industry have hit hards times or gone down because of poor customer service (ex: Gateway computers, HP, CompUSA, etc.).

2 - Why are you on here conspicuously spying on your store's customers and antagonizing? Isn't that in and of itself unethical??

--
'Obviously, you're not a golfer.' - the Dude (Lebowski)

henryp said:

therickman said:

For general purposes, after all discounts to the retail ticket price,
profits are still typically a minimum of 15% above cost - and on a
discount-reduced item of $1000, thats still a $150 profit.

Click to expand...

When I laugh this hard, my ribs ache.

--
Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Video

Click to expand...

Your avoidance of an articulate response to my statement speaks volumes.

--
'Obviously, you're not a golfer.' - the Dude (Lebowski)

Who are they to judge?!?

http://eeoc.gov/press/10-16-07.html

I am afraid that you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say.
--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan

Hi Michael,

I come from a much tougher country than the US, where there are no "all you can eat buffets", loss leader sales, or coupons that could possibly be abused.

Because people will make use of it to the absolute, most grotesque way possible. They will drink so much soda that the restaurant be in the red (because they can...), they will buy exactly the items that are priced under value in wholesale amounts.

It doesn't strike me as survival attitude to not take advantage of a good deal coupon.

Zak

mfurman said:

I came to this thread late but I cannot believe that adults with some
life experience would be writing such silly things. You guys would
not survive 5 minutes in a tougher (to live country) than the US.
--
Michael

'People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm
out of range, I used to care, but things have changed' - Bob Dylan

Click to expand...

runnernunner said:

The customer is not always right ... you obviously do not have a long
term career in the retail field ... believe me the customer is not
always right and it is worth the hassle to tell them at times!

Click to expand...

It may be worth the hassle to you as a rep or even independent business owner. Sure, getting in a customer's face and proving them wrong is so fulfilling... until you lose that customer for life, and they tell their friends about their horrible experience and tell them to never shop there, and their friends tell friends... and so on.

Since Circuit City fired all of their higher-paid and educated sales reps a few years ago, I, along with probably ten of my closest friends, will never buy from Circuit City again. We tend to shop at locally-owned electronics stores now, which has a more positive effect on our community rather than making some CEO rich. And the once mighty CC has fallen so far behind Best Buy, they'll probably fold soon. Not that Best Buy is any better.

But my point is: bad customer service has more of an impact on a customer's psyche than ticket price. It's a general rule of retail law, the saying: "if you lose one customer to bad customer service, you lose a hundred."

--
'Obviously, you're not a golfer.' - the Dude (Lebowski)