Unhappy Panasonic Users

Good question... I so rarely think in raw terms
I had noticed, previously, :)
& haven't shot a raw
long exposure yet... Oh well.. Got something to look into now....
Yes, interesting, if it does mess with the RAW then that would explain my reasonable results when stacking to get the Andromeda galaxy.
hmmm, who can we ask I wonder ,,,

btw, I edited my previous post , to add the bit about reasonable results being achieved even without the use of a (blue-banded :( ) dark frame ,,and we crossed in the post as a result.

--
Malcolm.
SW England.
 
I can't answer definitively for Panny but RAW files do have dark
frame subtraction. For instance on my M8 I shoot RAW only and it
still have dark frame subtraction on long exposures.
How can you tell that that is happening ? ie. how can I test for it happening in my FZ18 ?
What would be
"wrong" with that?
Nothing !

PS. perhaps we should move this to a "Dark Frame" thread so as not to disturb the happy people :) lol! Sorry Sues !!
--
Malcolm.
SW England.
 
Terry, You misinterpreted my thread about returning the FZ18. I did not return it so I could see what PMA would bring. It was a two step thing.

1. I returned it because I was fearful that the blue band issue would not be resolved or fixed by Pany and I would be stuck with a camera known to be a lemon which would make future resale difficult.

2. Second step, is to reevaluate. PMA being underway is just a coincidence. So, it makes consummate sense to wait a week and see what it brings rather than to only look at the cameras available today.

Sorry, I upset you...though I am not sure why. The FZ18 is a fabulous camera for the money. I like high quality tools, so the Blue Band probably upset me more than it does other owners. Could it be that a sloppy engineering job was done in an effort to get the FZ18 out only 6 months after the FZ8? Indoor photos with incandescent WB and ISO 400 result in blue band and are very REAL WORLD photos for me... and should not have blue bands down the right side.

Also, with a 90 day return policy, a buyer is just as justified (morally and legally) returning the camera after 89 days as is a buyer returning it after 1 day.

Peter F.
 
The FZ18 is a
fabulous camera for the money.
I agree with that !
so the Blue
Band probably upset me more than it does other owners. Could it be
that a sloppy engineering job was done
could be !!

I am astonished that it was not picked up during development, such a clever camera with such a host of ingenious things, not to mention Venus engines,,,, were all the engineers blind !? And what about all the reviewers all over the internet that missed it as well ! (and some of them still are missing it )

But just because we sometimes "go on" about the blue band doesnt make us all unhappy about its other delights :)

--
Malcolm.
SW England.
 
Some people just like to whine to hear themselves.
The reason you hear so much whining and complaining on these boards
is that some folks are more concerned about camera specifications
than pictures.
Discussing legitimate concerns about obvious and acknowledged problems is not whining! Some of us simply want our blue bands fixed, and these forums (along with Ruud's summary page) have been the main source of progress reports on this issue.

P
 
I can't answer definitively for Panny but RAW files do have dark
frame subtraction. For instance on my M8 I shoot RAW only and it
still have dark frame subtraction on long exposures.
How can you tell that that is happening ? ie. how can I test for it
happening in my FZ18 ?
Well, in JPG after the shot of 1 second or longer is taken, immediately following the 1st, actual capture frame, the hourglass will tumble in the EVF/LCD, counting down the exact same duration as the original actual capture shot... So, to test... Take a shot for 4 or 5 or 15 seconds so there's no mistaking or missing it, then watch after the initial, actual picture capture shot.. As soon as the first 4 or 5 or 15 second, actual capture elapses, immediately following that another 4 or 5 or 15 second hourglass spinning in the EVF/LCD should occur... So in all the 4, 5 or 15 sec exposure will take a total of 8, 10 or 30 seconds... Do it both in JPG & Raw... The reason I say do it @ 4 or 5 or 15 seconds is so you don't miss it if it's just 1 second...

Actually try one @ a half second or anything less than 1 full second & there will be no delay afterwards.. Then do one @ whatever the slowest possible shutter is... 15seconds maybe? I forget what the longest shutter is but anyway the 15 second one will take 30 seconds total... 15- actual capture frame & 15- Dark (with hourglass timbling in the EVF/LCD)... It can't be turned off on purpose or by accident it's mandatory, a Pany default & the camera will not react to any input you might try entering all the while the ourglass is tumbling...
What would be
"wrong" with that?
Nothing !

PS. perhaps we should move this to a "Dark Frame" thread so as not to
disturb the happy people :) lol! Sorry Sues !!
What do ya mean? Do you know how many of us are happy about auto-DFS that most cams don't do & would otherwise have to be done manually to rid hot pixels & such in long exposures... It's a useful perk hardly anyone is aware of & most cant figure out why the cam locks up for what seems like twice as long as it should at night.... ;-}

--

The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* [email protected] * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
 
I have taken many indoor shots at a high ISO and I have never seen the dreaded blueband.......but then I have never taken a photo of the lens cap either.
I am not saying that some do not have the problem , only that I do not.
--
Gene from Western Pa

http://imageevent.com/grc6
http://grc225.zenfolio.com/
FZ10....20 and 30 and FZ18

D50 ....D80 - 18 to 200VR- 50mm 1.8 - 80 to 400 OS



Just trying to learn and it's slow going!
 
PS. perhaps we should move this to a "Dark Frame" thread so as not to
disturb the happy people :) lol! Sorry Sues !!
What do ya mean? Do you know how many of us are happy about auto-DFS
relax ol'chap, note my use of " :) lol! " in the above. sheesh!

but we have a misunderstanding in the offing here,

I know all about the tumbling hourglass and 2x15sec to do a 15sec exposure. I have done lots of astro pics at 60sec, each of which takes 2x60sec to record. no prob( except when freezing bits off taking pics of Orion in mid-winter !!! )

but terry said
" RAW files do have dark frame subtraction."

and I was asking how can we test for that in our panny.

The hourglass would tumble for 2 periods whilst dark frame processing the jpg, if or not it was also darkframing the RAW as well ( or would it then take 3x periods to do that ? iyswim.

Now exposing raw alone and timing the periods involved seems not to me to resolve the matter because the RAW file includes an embeded jpg,,, errrm, or does it when taking raw alone ,,, I feel a test in the offing > > > ,,,
,,,

well, I never before did a raw alone, always raw+jpg, but yes it does take 2x15sec and it turns out that a jpg? (for evf/lcd display?) is generated and I am guessing will be embeded in the raw file. So, that didn't resolve anything !

--
Malcolm.
SW England.
 
I have taken many indoor shots at a high ISO and I have never seen
the dreaded blueband.......but then I have never taken a photo of the
lens cap either.
I am not saying that some do not have the problem , only that I do not.
I have only ever noticed it once ( I have had my FZ18 since early Nov)

and that was when taking a pic of a pig in a dim farrowing shed and not flashing for fear of disturbing the piglets !

But not noticing it, not having a problem with it and not having it at all are three different things :) :) !

There may come a time when it may ruin the only pic I ever get the chance to take and thus a masterpiece may be lost for posterity ! ( note tongue firmly in cheek ;) )
But yes, it does agitate some folk.

--
Malcolm.
SW England.
 
I liked nearly every one of the photos in the gallery. Which ones were yours? Each of them seems to have a different photographer listed. Thanks for posting. I agree with your feelings about the camera, by the way. I like what mine does for me, and that may be the main thing!
--
Just cruisin' ...



EffZeeThirty (Got the Gull), EffZeeEighteen, TeeZeeThree
 
PS. perhaps we should move this to a "Dark Frame" thread so as not to
disturb the happy people :) lol! Sorry Sues !!
What do ya mean? Do you know how many of us are happy about auto-DFS
relax ol'chap, note my use of " :) lol! " in the above. sheesh!
I saw the smiley.. i was just reiterating we're happy about the DFS so as not to be construed as a whiner or an unhappy camper, to keep it loosely on topic for the OP ;-}, not to mention back-handedly informing those that wondered why long exposures take twice as long as they should... I know for a fact there are those that have had the thought cross their mind.
but we have a misunderstanding in the offing here,
I know all about the tumbling hourglass and 2x15sec to do a 15sec
exposure. I have done lots of astro pics at 60sec, each of which
takes 2x60sec to record. no prob( except when freezing bits off
taking pics of Orion in mid-winter !!! )

but terry said
" RAW files do have dark frame subtraction."

and I was asking how can we test for that in our panny.
The hourglass would tumble for 2 periods whilst dark frame processing
the jpg, if or not it was also darkframing the RAW as well ( or
would it then take 3x periods to do that ? iyswim.
Now exposing raw alone and timing the periods involved seems not to
me to resolve the matter because the RAW file includes an embeded
jpg,,, errrm, or does it when taking raw alone ,,, I feel a test in
the offing > > > ,,,
& it'll have to be you doin' the testing because my FZs don't have the choice of taking Raw without a JPG but I'll assume the DF handles both or
well, I never before did a raw alone, always raw+jpg, but yes it does
take 2x15sec and it turns out that a jpg? (for evf/lcd display?) is
generated and I am guessing will be embeded in the raw file. So, that
didn't resolve anything !
maybe it just does the a DF for the raw & doesn't have to for the JPG because the JPG is processed from that raw... It doesn't take a separate Raw & JPG for the thumbnail or when RAW + JPG is the order of the day, does it??? So iI'll assume three frames is unwarranted...

--

The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* [email protected] * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
 
It's always easier to blame the camera than learn to use it better.
What I find amusing are people who insist that this or that camera is simply not 'good enough' for them because it won't crank out RAW frames one after another, or has other limitations by virtue of not being a DSLR with $3000 of lenses. One such person who has posted many times, on the few occasions he posted any photos, they were so dull and uninspired I thought 'this guy couldn't use a TZ3 to full advantage - why does he claim to need this $$$ DSLR??' There were pictures of a kid standing still on a walkway and a scene taken alongside a road. Yes, you need high speed RAW to capture those things; I know my FZ would have never managed such shots!
 
I own the FX01 and it' just a fabulous camera. Built beautifully, SUPER fast operation (it's fast at everything), wonderful AF and shoot to shoot times, quick access to WB and exposure compensation ... a joy to use in all respects.

Then i download the images.

Even at ISo80 the colour blotching is beyond belief. The smearing is mind blowing, the per pixel sharpness is appalling.

Now, this is my back for my DSLR and is used for 4x6 snaps so it juuuuust squeezes out a strong 4x6 print. However i'd be very nervous blowing up any images.

--
***********************************************
Please visit my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti

Pentax Lens examples at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti/images_by_lens

Updated January '08
 
I own the FX01 and it' just a fabulous camera. Built beautifully,
SUPER fast operation (it's fast at everything), wonderful AF and
shoot to shoot times, quick access to WB and exposure compensation
... a joy to use in all respects.

Then i download the images.

Even at ISo80 the colour blotching is beyond belief. The smearing is
mind blowing, the per pixel sharpness is appalling.

Now, this is my back for my DSLR and is used for 4x6 snaps so it
juuuuust squeezes out a strong 4x6 print. However i'd be very nervous
blowing up any images.
My guess is, part of that is having to hold the tiny thing @ arms length too...
--

The Amateur Formerly Known as 'UZ'pShoot'ERS' 'Happy Shootin' Comments, Critique, Ridicule, Limericks, Jokes, Hi-jackings, EnthUZIastically, Encouraged... I Insist!



* [email protected] * http://www.pbase.com/rrawzz *
 
You say in your post "eyes to see with" and take it from me you have used them very ,very well. You should be proud that you can see a shot that nobody else could evan imagine-------------------keep up the good work. Tony
 
You have good reason to be proud of your photos; you seem to have a good photo eye and some very interesting photos. Besides the little-known fact that anyone with a portrait of a chicken in their gallery can't be all bad, 8^), the tennis ball in the foreground with your little dog in pursuit is a great shot, among others.

Good thing you didn't read here too much before you started taking photos. You might have realized you wouldn't be able to get any good photos without seriously upgrading your equipment....

More seriously though, there are a lot of folks who try to buy their way to great photos, and it just won't work (though it does make cameras cheaper for the rest). Then, of course, the key is to stand around in groups and discuss which lenses are better, in depth, and other fine points of photography...or should I say camera ownership.

Keep up the good work, and keep not-listening 8^).
--
Gary
Photo albums: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse
 

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