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I assume that this is an eBay/PayPal scam...

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Melroselotta said:
linuxworks said:
yes, it can take weeks to find if its a fake check or not - but not if you
ask the bank to VERIFY the funds. the way it was explained to me is
that when you call the bank that the check was written from (ie, when
an official bank calls another) that's quite trustable. if the other
bank says the funds are there - that means the transaction is DONE at
that end and no more changes can be made. from then, its just a
matter of a bank to bank transfer, which takes time but has no risk
associated with it.
Click to expand...
Well, then I think you should definitely go right ahead and cash any
cashier's checks that come your way,
Click to expand...
where did I say CASH the check? I said deposit it and poll (keep calling) the bank.

please don't attribute words to me that I didn't say.
Melroselotta said:
and not worry about the hundreds
of thousands of scam warnings out there. They are obviously all wrong.
Click to expand...
that comment adds nothing of value to this discussion...

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
another good one is http://www.419eater.com - some very funny stuff!

I sell a lot of stuff on eBay and in every single auction I simply state "NO international bids accepted". It just makes things easier. Nothing against ANY other country anywhere but I won't ship outside my own country. There's plenty of eager buyers right here. eBay is a service to ME, not me providing goods to third world countries that are full of scammers.
 
Steve Ives said:
Well, if the payment does in fact come through and I post to the
registered address then I appear to be covered.
Click to expand...
Once they get the camera, they will claim it never arrived. Your paypal account will be back-charged, and you will be left with nothing.

--
http://www.pbase.com/cbeck

One does not achieve success by being at the right place at the right time, but rather by being ready when the right place and time present themselves for your inspection.
 
I have had a phony "Bank Check" that I told the sender I Would Not send them anything until it cleared..period. End of discussion!! It took 2 weeks before I knew anything, and the bank called in to discuss this matter, AND to bring Email I had recieved with FULL header info atached. (For the FBI)

They just don't call, or verify by computer....they SEND the Physical check to the "bank of origin" to clear. That is what my bank did for a oversees bank check anyway....That'say it take a few weeks to clear.
.

WAIT BEFORE YOU SEND ANYTHING for E-Checks or Bank Checks to clear YOUR ACCOUNT!

Once it is in your account, Withdraw it ASAP so YOU have the money in a safe way.

Common Sense......right?

--
'Well, Good Luck With That' (SpongeBob SquarePants)

Peter :-)



Enjoy your photography images, even if your wife doesn't ! ;-(
http://laurence-photography.com/
http://www.pbase.com/peterarbib/
Cameras in profile.
 
Melroselotta said:
linuxworks said:
sorry, with paypal you are NEVER covered. they are not a bank and
don't even think they follow the same legal rules as banks. they can
do as they wish and you have no say in the matter!

if they sent you a bank check and you had your bank verify it was
cleared, that's fine. but ebay and paypal (same company, btw) are
not a bank. they somehow weaseled out of being a real bank and so
all bets are off in terms of reliable payment via paypal. when it
works, great. but I would never COUNT on it. too many people have
been scammed by paypal.
Click to expand...
100% correct. Also, when you sign up for Paypal, there is a clause
where you allow Paypal to go into your linked bank account (I believe
up to 3 months after your transaction) to retrieve any funds they
(Paypal) deem should be refunded to buyer. That's right: They CAN
ACCESS your Paypal linked bank account.
Click to expand...
So not only do you have to
Melroselotta said:
immediately transfer the payment out of your Paypal account, to be
safe you also should make sure your personal account is emptied out
afterwards.
Click to expand...
Exactly
KEEP your Paypal Account at $0.00 ALL THE TIME. AND...

Keep a SEPERATE bank account for Paypal Only sales or purchases.

AND KEEP IT "Near empty" until you are ready to pay for an item. As soon as your transfer clears from Paypal.and a deposit shows up on your "Paypal Only" bank account..Transfer that $$ to a NON-Paypal accessed acount you have ASAP...Less a few $$ to keep the Paypal Only account open...

GOOD SOUND ADVISE for any EBay'r
Melroselotta said:
People think Paypal cannot do this, but they CAN and they WILL, if
the buyer files a complaint. And they won't even notify you before
they do so. More horror stories about Paypal business ethics and user
agreement can be found at http://www.paypalsucks.com
Click to expand...
--
'Well, Good Luck With That' (SpongeBob SquarePants)

Peter :-)



Enjoy your photography images, even if your wife doesn't ! ;-(
http://laurence-photography.com/
http://www.pbase.com/peterarbib/
Cameras in profile.
 
Anyone who even considers sending camera gear oversees is just about assuring themselves a total loss - I worked for (and still consult with) a large internet commerce business - over 80 % of the transactions to Nigeria are fraudulent yet people continue to be ripped off (due to greed on both sides).

A very high number of fraudulent transactions also come from Asia and former Eastern Bloc countries as well (Ukraine, Poland, Czech Republic).

Bottom line - there is enough of a market here in the US for just about everything photographic sold on Ebay - why even take a chance on a loss (not to mention the complete hassle of paperwork, recovery in the event of lost package, etc)

My opinion - If you feel obligated to ship camera gear oversees - give it charity instead - at least you'll get a tax deduciton!

Mark

--
http://www.sixgunphoto.com
http://www.sixgunmarketing.com
 
I used to think banker's draft (the UK equivalent of your cashier's check) were as good as cash, but I don't beleive it's the case.

There's a well-known scam where someone will send you a cheque for too much money (e.g. $12,000 for a $10,00 item). They'll ask you to return the extra $2,000, so you wait for their deposit to clear and then send them $2000. A few weeks later, their payment bounce (despite neing 'cleared') and your bank withdraws the $12,00 from your account. Net result - you're $2000 out of pocket.

--
Steve
 
linuxworks said:
Steve Ives said:
Well, if the payment does in fact come through and I post to the
registered address then I appear to be covered.

Not sure if I'm willing to risk it though.
Click to expand...
sorry, with paypal you are NEVER covered. they are not a bank and
don't even think they follow the same legal rules as banks. they can
do as they wish and you have no say in the matter!
Click to expand...
They have a 'seller protection policy' which covers you for fraud if your transaction meets certain requirements.
linuxworks said:
I would never ever send goods to nigeria.
Click to expand...
I'm not that stupid - I was waiting for the buyer's registered address. Had that been in the UK, I might have sent it, as I would have met PayPal's requirements for the SPP.

I was half expecting the payment to arrive only for it to bounce or to have been paid via a stolen credit card. What I actually got was a fake 'Payment received' email from PayPal (well, not from Paypal, if you know what I mean). they are obviously hoping I'll now send the camera without checking my actual PP account. Needless to say, the funds are not there.

Steve
 
Steve Ives said:
linuxworks said:
Steve Ives said:
Well, if the payment does in fact come through and I post to the
registered address then I appear to be covered.

Not sure if I'm willing to risk it though.
Click to expand...
sorry, with paypal you are NEVER covered. they are not a bank and
don't even think they follow the same legal rules as banks. they can
do as they wish and you have no say in the matter!
Click to expand...
They have a 'seller protection policy' which covers you for fraud if
your transaction meets certain requirements.
Click to expand...
isn't that the trick, though? there is so much wiggle room FOR EBAY/paypal that its stacked against you. they know what they're doing (paypal) and they crafted your contract with them to give them all the rights and you, none.

I've had a few bad buys/sells on ebay and when I tried to get help from paypal, I got mostly dialtone (if you know what I mean). they're less than useless. don't count on their help for anything.

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
Paypal's verification process applies to the US only, not to the rest of the world.

I always (i.e. five times) had excellent experiences with buyers from Hongkong, Shanghai and Taiwan. There are camera clubs (esp. Rollei and Leica fans) and very wealthy amateurs in those cities...I'd check this buyers profile again, it seems legit to me.
ymmv, of course ;-) , just a thought.

--
cheers, Peter

Germany
 
Steve Ives said:
I used to think banker's draft (the UK equivalent of your cashier's
check) were as good as cash, but I don't beleive it's the case.

There's a well-known scam where someone will send you a cheque for
too much money (e.g. $12,000 for a $10,00 item). They'll ask you to
return the extra $2,000, so you wait for their deposit to clear and
then send them $2000. A few weeks later, their payment bounce
(despite neing 'cleared') and your bank withdraws the $12,00 from
your account. Net result - you're $2000 out of pocket.

--
Steve
Click to expand...
..... not only are you $2k out of pocket - you will also have a criminal record to boot! - By actually taking out the money that are later discovered to be from a fraudulent cheque you have committed Fraud. You will be charged as the bank have all your details and you are a softer target than the originator of the cheque.
 
E300 said:
Steve Ives said:
I used to think banker's draft (the UK equivalent of your cashier's
check) were as good as cash, but I don't beleive it's the case.

There's a well-known scam where someone will send you a cheque for
too much money (e.g. $12,000 for a $10,00 item). They'll ask you to
return the extra $2,000, so you wait for their deposit to clear and
then send them $2000. A few weeks later, their payment bounce
(despite neing 'cleared') and your bank withdraws the $12,00 from
your account. Net result - you're $2000 out of pocket.

--
Steve
Click to expand...
..... not only are you $2k out of pocket - you will also have a
criminal record to boot! - By actually taking out the money that are
later discovered to be from a fraudulent cheque you have committed
Fraud. You will be charged as the bank have all your details and you
are a softer target than the originator of the cheque.
Click to expand...
so again, I ask this (in case there is anyone IN the industry that can speak definitively on this subject) - what if you do NOT cash the check and simply deposit it and wait for YOUR local bank to confirm that it cleared? deposit-only - no cashie. is that the same thing or does that make it at all different? finally, while I'm asking, does it change anything if you inform your bank FIRST that you are depositing a check from a 3rd party 'ebay transaction'. and that you can't vouch for the authenticity of the check and therefore want them to do the deposit but track it and note that you informed them. does -that- change anything?

it would be useful to know - from someone actually in the industry (and I am not).

--
Bryan (pics only: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works )
(pics and more: http://www.netstuff.org ) ~
 
ship them an empty box. You lose the cost of postage...but if by the time they get it the payment hasn't bounced...then it puts you in the driver seat. If they are a fraud...think they are going to complain about the empty box not knowing if PayPal has yet reversed your payment? If they are legit...they will...and you can then ship the item....after PayPal mails you your check and you close that Paypal Acct..... Change your auctions to nigerian buyers to cover the two shipment practice.... what do you think? Course you still lose the rather substantial postage to Nigeria....but it could be fun.....Alternatively....you could just say you had shipped it and listen to see if they make noise or not....

Seriously....remove their bid and restart the auction not allowing bids from other than USA/Europe or etc..
--
Richard Katris aka Chanan
 
Of a business model where the customers have to decide totally on their own if their purchases (or sales, for that matter) are a total fraud without even basic protection?

I know, I know, in theory, ALL transactions everywhere are like that. But the truth is, for other transactions, there are govenrmental protections and cultural and community sanctions in play. And at least in the USA, no other market has the level of fraud that eBay appears to have. I suspect that is true for most other countries as well.

--
STOP Global Stasis! Change is good!

Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos. . .
http://www.photo.net/photos/GlenBarrington
 
linuxworks said:
so again, I ask this (in case there is anyone IN the industry that
can speak definitively on this subject) - what if you do NOT cash the
check and simply deposit it and wait for YOUR local bank to confirm
that it cleared?
Click to expand...
Cashing it and despositing it are the same thing (certainly in the UK). You can't walk into a bank with a £5,000 cheque and change it for £5,000 in cash there and then. You have to put it into your account and then wait for it to clear (3-5 days) before you can get the money. If, after this timescale, the cheque turns out to be fraudulent, the back can take the money back, despite it having 'cleared' and even if you've since withdrawn the money.

I think this is due to change in the UK, with clearing banks limited to a 6 day window to bounce a cheque. However the funds will be cleared for withdrawal after 4 days, so you could withdraw the money, spend it and 2 days later have the bnck demand it back.

--
Steve
 
I've receive a fake PayPal email saying payment thas been made, so do I:

A) Act confused and ask why the payment isn't showing in my Paypal account.

B) Say 'Thanks very much', say I've shipped it and supply a fake tracking number.

C) Try to get the 'buyer' to supply me a pre-paid Fedex label and send them a box of cat & dog poo from the garden?

--
Steve
 
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