What are the TRUE problems when chosing a digital camera?

Ok, I don't want to start a flamewar as it's not my desire, but I need some guidance in the jungle of reviews and advices I got once I decided to buy a new camera; I've "studied" practically every good camera I've stumbled upon in the last month and everytime "I've decided"... BANG, someone shoots my poor little choiche with photos of Cromatic Aberrations, viewfinder misalignments or noise... (just to give you an idea... the sequence of cameras I've evalutated to be my next one... Exilm Z1000 (o_o) -> Nikon P5000 -> Panasonic TZ3 -> Canon G7 -> Olympus Sp-550 -> Sony H9 -> Canon S5 -> Panasonic FZ8 (FZ18)...) I don't think I've to tell you what killed any of these choices (even so, if the G7 had 28-280 lenses I'd bought it in a blink of an eye) but it seems that every camera has flaws and that if you search hard enough you'll find someone who found a "terrible and unforgivable flaw who transforms the best camera in the world in a trash can"... So what are the TRUE killer problems? The purple fringing, the overzealous noise reduction, noisy sensors (and in the end, are there so terrifing difference in noise from a manufacturer to another besides Fuji? they seem pretty equal to me, whilst everyone says pannies are the noisier... ), slow operation, highlight clipping... everything is annoying, I know... but what in the end will kill my pictures, and what I can safely ignore? 'cause I know that, given at best a week, someone will find an unforgivable defect in my last choice (FZ8/18) :-(

And make your own decision on what you WANT. Im not saying dont listen to peoples advice, just that its their OWN opinion, and opinions are just opinions. I ended up basing my decision on 28mm wide angle, good lens, smallish, and IS (i have shaky hands) I personally found the majority of the better cameras had similar IQ, just variances in noise reduction and purple fringing etc, but in the end still similar. The cameras you mention seem to be of different classes (super zoom, compact etc) so maybe if you came up with a list of "must have's" for your camera then it would narrow down your choices.
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You have answered your own question all have flaws and all have limitations even the big guns, at the end of the day they are all tools that perform a task, and you need to choose one that does what you want well.

All image flaws tend to show in more extreme situations, like noise in low light high iso shots, or CA in very high contrast arias, both can be fixed to an acceptable level in pp, how much they may bother you is personal.

Any half decent camera is capable of good results, look on any forum here at those same cameras with all the flaws and you will find many great images, the variance between a camera that handles noise well and one that is less capable can be a matter of a few % points, this place (dp in general) really does nitpic and overanalyse the differences.

My recommendation is to make a list of what you want, and what is "really" important to you (eg long zoom, big screen, fast af whatever), eliminate all that do not fit the criteria, have a closer look at the top contenders, pick one, go take some pics, they are all quite capable, and whatever you choose will be superseeded by a better camera within months :}

So what is important to you, say the top 5 to 10 criteria, and what type of shots do you need to take, give us this info and we can give some advice that is meaningful rather than subjective.

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Gerry,
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heh heh, wish you had posted before I started typing
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Gerry,
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gerryd04 said:

heh heh, wish you had posted before I started typing

Click to expand...

snicker We kiwis can't fly, so we have to be quick off the mark

p.s. the first part of my previous post was more aimed at the bit about other people shooting down the possible cameras he came up with
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I agree with your general assessment of the current cameras available, and with mwahaha's recommendation for figuring out what you want. When giving advice to friends I usually ask them about the following:

Wide-angle?
Zoom?
Aperture?
I really like having the large apertures available for a smaller DOF.
Manual controls?

How often do you think you will take full control? Many cameras offer the control, but the controls can be clunky.
Viewfinder or LCD?
Is size an issue?
You have listed from ultra-compact to large cameras.
Cost?
Again, you have listed from low to high priced cameras.

I have probably forgotten a few others, but those are the main ones I can think of right now. Personally, I chose the LX2, and have been very happy. But sometimes I do feel limited by the camera. Sometimes I wish I had more zoom, a smaller camera, a bigger flash, faster RAW writing... But no camera on the market could possibly address everything I want - every tool has its limitations. For me, it was about finding the tool that best fit what I wanted. I am sure others will disagree, but I am comfortable saying that you could be happy with any camera on your list as . Yes, they all have limitations - but finding one that works for you is key.

And one more suggestion - get hands on with the cameras. It really helps to get a good sense of the camera before purchasing.

I hope that helps a little. I remember what it was like; I had decided on 10 different cameras before I took the plunge. In the end, I was glad just to have that part out of the way. Now its all about taking the right pictures. Goodluck.

-Jeremy

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Mwahaha said:

p.s. the first part of my previous post was more aimed at the bit
about other people shooting down the possible cameras he came up with

Click to expand...

got that, just meant you were saying pretty much the same thing as I was, and I could have shrunk my post significantly, guess I'm just so lazy that when I see an opportunity at lazyness wasted I bite

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Gerry,
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I don't have any suggestions I'm going through your exact same problem now. I think it would really help if camera stores had small and large prints for every camera in their store so that you could make real comparisons.

I'm lucky that my store has a 45 day return policy so if I don't like the camera I can exchange it for a new one.

For what it's worth I'm down to the G7 and TZ3. One of the reasons I'm leaning to the TZ3 is that I think we can get better support in the Panasonic forum than the Canon one. The Canon forum is definately "run" more by pixel peepers.

Gotta agree, pana's are just plain fun to use and you get the forum for free
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Gerry,
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I just had to have my say here.

What do you want a camera for? Where and when do you want to use it?

If you can write that on a piece of paper, you have probably eliminated about 75% of the market.

So many people I talk to don't even have a clear idea of why they want a camera.

-



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Yeah, when I started I had pretty much no idea of what I really wanted... but then I leaned torward ultra zoom, if possible with at least a little wide angle The dimensions of this kind of cameras worried me a little in the beginning so I was pinballing back and forth to compacts :-D

thanks As I said, I've pinballed a lot in the beginning as I wasn't able to decide if "bridge" cameras dimensions (the FZ8) were ok for me or not, and the result was that more than often I asked myself if wasn't better getting something smaller (like the TZ3... but no manual controls killed me). I think I just want an ultra zoom with manual controls, and an image quality wich won't make me feel the need to shot again with my rusty canon s45 (and that's hard, as it has a 4MP 1/1.8 CCD ^ ^), but I don't feel ready for a DSLR

Take G7 and be happy with it.

I think it's one of the reasons I started looking at pannies: this isn't my first post and the Panasonic forum is full of kind people wich helped me one way or the other It's something other forums miss

gaspaenr said:

'cause I
know that, given at best a week, someone will find an unforgivable
defect in my last choice (FZ8/18) :-(

Click to expand...

Gaspaernr. I see that since a few days you're asking a lot of small questions about this or that camera. I feel that you are nitpicking. I've been in your seat, believe me and there is no perfect camera. And in the end of the day, what counts is to take pictures. You can do that with the worst el cheapo compact, it would still be better than to not have a camera.

Now, unless you are on a very limited budget (it doesn't seem so since some of the cameras you were looking for are not cheap), don't worry too much. Try one of the cameras and if it doesn't fit you, sell it or return it for another. Reading reviews is good but there is nothing like handling the real thing in your hands.

Each camera has a flaw or two. That's why a lot of people don't have just one camera, but 2 or more. Each camera excel in one particular area. A lot of people for example have a Fuji F-series for their low-light capabilities as a second camera. Some will have a DLSR where the compact is not able to do the job, etc, etc.

The TRUE problems when chosing a digital camera is the problem that does not allow you to take a picture: the camera is too slow (burst, on to 1st picture, flash recycle time, shot-to-shot...). My last camera (Fuji E500) was a nightmare when using the flash. You had to wait 8-10 seconds between shots. The powershot A520 was like that too. When I got the FZ5, I could almost shoot in bursts with the flash. The other problems is the focusing system. If the focus is too slow, inacurate or simply unable to focus (it happened for me with the E500 in low-light), you cannot take the picture...

The TRUE problems are usually not the IQ (if you understand the limits of the compacts). Between the best it's usually nitpicking.

A last advice, look at photographic sites like Pictures of the Day, etc. And look at what are the most used cameras. Look also at the pictures and see what you could do with this camera.

Buy something now. Anyway, in 18-24 months it will be superseeded by something better (well, usually...).

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Manu

a camera with good zoom range and wide angle, not so big to make me leaving it at home but with decent image quality and (absolutely) manual controls That's why in the end I'm leaning torward the Fz18 (and waiting for a review) or the S5... what I can't decide is if the "noise reduction problems" everyone speaks of will in the end make the camera useless above iso100 as someone says or if it's not so bad after all... (and, in the end, if it's better a little noise reduction on a panny or the purple fringing of the S5...) Anyway I didn't want to make another "this camera or that camera thread What I wanted was asking everyone: if you could choose, you'd get a camera with excessive noise reduction or purple fringing? what of the two is worse?

gaspaenr said:

I think I just want an ultra zoom
with manual controls, and an image quality wich won't make me feel
the need to shot again with my rusty canon s45.

Click to expand...

Let's start with a list of ultrazoom cameras with manual controls that have received good on-line reviews.

• Fuji S9100 and S6000
• Panasonic FZ-8 and FZ-50
• Canon S3IS and S5IS
• Kodak? (Anyone know of one with good reviews?)

Newly Announced - No Reviews

• Fuji S8000
• Panny FZ-18

• The latest from Sony and Olympus have been universally panned, so we'll eliminate those.

Now you've got a list to start with. Once you identify the class of camera you are looking at, then you need to add in whatever is next on your priority list. For me, that list would look something like this:

• Image Stabilization
• Desired Focal Length
• Hot Shoe
• IQ/Resolution/Lens sharpness
• ISO 400 performance

There are alot of other things that many people add to their own personal list....size, cost, movable LCD, wide angle, etc.

With the large number of on-line reviews available, there should be no mystery what to expect from picture quality. So start from either end of your personal list of secondary priorities and you should be able to narrow your list fairly quickly.

gaspaenr said:

What I wanted was asking everyone: if you could choose, you'd get a
camera with excessive noise reduction or purple fringing? what of the
two is worse?

Click to expand...

It's a theorical question. In practice there are ways to solve these problems. For the noise on the Panasonic there is RAW + Neat Image. This combination is anyway much better than anything a software in-camera could do.

Even for purple fringes there are software able to correct this (I saw this in the last version of Silkypix and in Bibble).

So IMO these flaws should not prevent you to get one or the other camera. They also don't show up in every picture.

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Manu

I know :-D It one of my flaws, I always look too much at details (i don't even know exactly how to say it in english, in italian we call this "essere pignoli"

It may be that among all the conflicting advice you have gotten during your hunt for your next camera, the best advice has come from those in this forum who precede me. In your original post you commented on those who shouted down camera after camera - ask youself how much of that shouting came from here.

My personal input is 'buy what you will use.' I have seen camera after camera ending up in drawers, in closets, on shelves, or most anywhere other than in their owners' hands - taking pictures. I know it will be a slow process, but if you have a history of using cameras of any kind, you have a head start in this, the most subjective part of your search. If not, you have to learn someplace what works for you.

I would start with a features to models matrix and add to each feature a section that states the benefit, photographically, of that feature. Along with each feature & benefit, add a summary of WHY that matters to you, personally. Ignore what others have told you about why it should matter - you are the one who must be satisfied. In support of that, only you can establish your own measure of how important a feature is.

I saw recently in another post a piece of advice about the selection process that is quite sound: the writer, Joanne, advised, regarding how to find pictures taken with a TZ3: "Go to pbase.com, click on the "search" tab and "search by camera". Then click Panasonic and TZ3 - you'll get just TZ3 photos."

You might consider doing that with each camera you are considering. Start developing your own set of criteria regarding the kinds of pictures you want to take. Try to find if there seems to be a camera to picture type match. For example, other than dSLRs, I would suspect more Pannys of certain models (FZxxes) are used for "birds in flight" and macros than any other single brand. Whether this follows from a particular feature set or capability I don't know; I do know I have seen some marvelous images within these genre posted many places.

The single thing most visitors to this forum will agree on is that taking pictures should be fun. Making the tough choice can pay rich rewards as long as you have fun taking pictures. One last piece of advice: don't let pixel worship capture you - you take pictures not pixels.
Find the camera that gives you pleasure and have fun.

JimW203