Photography Rules at Baseball Picture Day

mark kay said:

Here is something that was quite interesting that happened to me
today. My son's baseball team like the others in our town had
picture day. I brought my 1D and 28-70L lens to take a few shots
but I did order a package of photos from the photo company.

The lady in charge told me that anyone other than the hired
photographers were allowed to take photos and she escorted me to
the side. I thought this is crazy. I told her I ordered a big
package so i was not there to rip her off. She said sorry but that
is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

A few minutes later, I saw her escorting a lady with her point and
shoot to another team to take photos-- I questioned her about that
and she said the lady said she was not going to take the whole
teams photo but she was clicking away. i took a photo of this as
evidence. Of course, I was initially just trying to get some shots
of my son before the team photo.

I really think she might of thought I was doing professional
photography with the 1D. The actual photographers were all coming
up and saying what a great camera this was. They had not used them
yet but did have EOS 1V and D30s.

Anyway, I am going to write a note to the baseball league and copy
the photography company on it. I really think this was ridiculous.

Mark

Click to expand...

Member said:

Mark,

What type of photos were you trying to take? Candids or posed
shots? I don't see -- rules or no rules -- where she could prevent
you from taking candids in a public area. But if the players were
posed, then some restrictions would certainly be valid, and you
would be subject to their discretion. Part of this would have to do
with contractual agreements with the athletic association. In
addition, poses have a certain "intellectual" value, and might be
protected accordingly. But for candids, any attempt to stop you
might qualify as harassment.

M

mark kay said:

Here is something that was quite interesting that happened to me
today. My son's baseball team like the others in our town had
picture day. I brought my 1D and 28-70L lens to take a few shots
but I did order a package of photos from the photo company.

The lady in charge told me that anyone other than the hired
photographers were allowed to take photos and she escorted me to
the side. I thought this is crazy. I told her I ordered a big
package so i was not there to rip her off. She said sorry but that
is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

A few minutes later, I saw her escorting a lady with her point and
shoot to another team to take photos-- I questioned her about that
and she said the lady said she was not going to take the whole
teams photo but she was clicking away. i took a photo of this as
evidence. Of course, I was initially just trying to get some shots
of my son before the team photo.

I really think she might of thought I was doing professional
photography with the 1D. The actual photographers were all coming
up and saying what a great camera this was. They had not used them
yet but did have EOS 1V and D30s.

Anyway, I am going to write a note to the baseball league and copy
the photography company on it. I really think this was ridiculous.

Mark

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mark kay said:

mark kay said:

Mark,

What type of photos were you trying to take? Candids or posed
shots? I don't see -- rules or no rules -- where she could prevent
you from taking candids in a public area. But if the players were
posed, then some restrictions would certainly be valid, and you
would be subject to their discretion. Part of this would have to do
with contractual agreements with the athletic association. In
addition, poses have a certain "intellectual" value, and might be
protected accordingly. But for candids, any attempt to stop you
might qualify as harassment.

M

mark kay said:

Here is something that was quite interesting that happened to me
today. My son's baseball team like the others in our town had
picture day. I brought my 1D and 28-70L lens to take a few shots
but I did order a package of photos from the photo company.

The lady in charge told me that anyone other than the hired
photographers were allowed to take photos and she escorted me to
the side. I thought this is crazy. I told her I ordered a big
package so i was not there to rip her off. She said sorry but that
is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

A few minutes later, I saw her escorting a lady with her point and
shoot to another team to take photos-- I questioned her about that
and she said the lady said she was not going to take the whole
teams photo but she was clicking away. i took a photo of this as
evidence. Of course, I was initially just trying to get some shots
of my son before the team photo.

I really think she might of thought I was doing professional
photography with the 1D. The actual photographers were all coming
up and saying what a great camera this was. They had not used them
yet but did have EOS 1V and D30s.

Anyway, I am going to write a note to the baseball league and copy
the photography company on it. I really think this was ridiculous.

Mark

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eyecon said:

Let me ask you this. Were you taking pictures of the team as a
group, set up by the photographer(s)? Were you shooting over their
shoulders? Wait until they were done, then shoot? Or were you
just taking candid shots. What specifically was the lady taking
pictures of? Think of it this way. You are shooting formals at a
wedding, everything is set up, you pose the wedding party, and
Uncle Joe starts taking pictures of the group. Don't you think
this would cut into your print sales? Heck, the bride may as well
get the prints from Uncle Joe for free rather than pay you for the
"same" shots. Not to mention his flash is firing off your slaved
lights making you miss shots and/or you have to wait for it to
recycle.

Put yourself in their shoes. If all you were doing is candid snap
shots, then perhaps they were intimidated by your 1D. School and
sports photography can get very competitive. Look at the senior
market/yearbook/school photographers.

I don't know the whole story, so I can just speculate.

mark kay said:

eyecon said:

Mark,

What type of photos were you trying to take? Candids or posed
shots? I don't see -- rules or no rules -- where she could prevent
you from taking candids in a public area. But if the players were
posed, then some restrictions would certainly be valid, and you
would be subject to their discretion. Part of this would have to do
with contractual agreements with the athletic association. In
addition, poses have a certain "intellectual" value, and might be
protected accordingly. But for candids, any attempt to stop you
might qualify as harassment.

M

mark kay said:

Here is something that was quite interesting that happened to me
today. My son's baseball team like the others in our town had
picture day. I brought my 1D and 28-70L lens to take a few shots
but I did order a package of photos from the photo company.

The lady in charge told me that anyone other than the hired
photographers were allowed to take photos and she escorted me to
the side. I thought this is crazy. I told her I ordered a big
package so i was not there to rip her off. She said sorry but that
is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

A few minutes later, I saw her escorting a lady with her point and
shoot to another team to take photos-- I questioned her about that
and she said the lady said she was not going to take the whole
teams photo but she was clicking away. i took a photo of this as
evidence. Of course, I was initially just trying to get some shots
of my son before the team photo.

I really think she might of thought I was doing professional
photography with the 1D. The actual photographers were all coming
up and saying what a great camera this was. They had not used them
yet but did have EOS 1V and D30s.

Anyway, I am going to write a note to the baseball league and copy
the photography company on it. I really think this was ridiculous.

Mark

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mark kay said:

is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

Mark

Click to expand...

eyecon said:

Put yourself in their shoes. If all you were doing is candid snap
shots, then perhaps they were intimidated by your 1D. School and
sports photography can get very competitive. Look at the senior
market/yearbook/school photographers.

I don't know the whole story, so I can just speculate.

mark kay said:

eyecon said:

Mark,

What type of photos were you trying to take? Candids or posed
shots? I don't see -- rules or no rules -- where she could prevent
you from taking candids in a public area. But if the players were
posed, then some restrictions would certainly be valid, and you
would be subject to their discretion. Part of this would have to do
with contractual agreements with the athletic association. In
addition, poses have a certain "intellectual" value, and might be
protected accordingly. But for candids, any attempt to stop you
might qualify as harassment.

M

mark kay said:

Here is something that was quite interesting that happened to me
today. My son's baseball team like the others in our town had
picture day. I brought my 1D and 28-70L lens to take a few shots
but I did order a package of photos from the photo company.

The lady in charge told me that anyone other than the hired
photographers were allowed to take photos and she escorted me to
the side. I thought this is crazy. I told her I ordered a big
package so i was not there to rip her off. She said sorry but that
is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

A few minutes later, I saw her escorting a lady with her point and
shoot to another team to take photos-- I questioned her about that
and she said the lady said she was not going to take the whole
teams photo but she was clicking away. i took a photo of this as
evidence. Of course, I was initially just trying to get some shots
of my son before the team photo.

I really think she might of thought I was doing professional
photography with the 1D. The actual photographers were all coming
up and saying what a great camera this was. They had not used them
yet but did have EOS 1V and D30s.

Anyway, I am going to write a note to the baseball league and copy
the photography company on it. I really think this was ridiculous.

Mark

Click to expand...

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eyecon said:

Let me ask you this. Were you taking pictures of the team as a
group, set up by the photographer(s)? Were you shooting over their
shoulders? Wait until they were done, then shoot? Or were you
just taking candid shots. What specifically was the lady taking
pictures of? Think of it this way. You are shooting formals at a
wedding, everything is set up, you pose the wedding party, and
Uncle Joe starts taking pictures of the group. Don't you think
this would cut into your print sales? Heck, the bride may as well
get the prints from Uncle Joe for free rather than pay you for the
"same" shots. Not to mention his flash is firing off your slaved
lights making you miss shots and/or you have to wait for it to
recycle.

Put yourself in their shoes. If all you were doing is candid snap
shots, then perhaps they were intimidated by your 1D. School and
sports photography can get very competitive. Look at the senior
market/yearbook/school photographers.

I don't know the whole story, so I can just speculate.

Click to expand...

Greg M said:

mark kay said:

is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

Mark

Click to expand...

When you said that did you stand your ground and start shooting?
You had every right to since it was on public property.

Click to expand...

mark kay said:

mark kay said:

Let me ask you this. Were you taking pictures of the team as a
group, set up by the photographer(s)? Were you shooting over their
shoulders? Wait until they were done, then shoot? Or were you
just taking candid shots. What specifically was the lady taking
pictures of? Think of it this way. You are shooting formals at a
wedding, everything is set up, you pose the wedding party, and
Uncle Joe starts taking pictures of the group. Don't you think
this would cut into your print sales? Heck, the bride may as well
get the prints from Uncle Joe for free rather than pay you for the
"same" shots. Not to mention his flash is firing off your slaved
lights making you miss shots and/or you have to wait for it to
recycle.

Put yourself in their shoes. If all you were doing is candid snap
shots, then perhaps they were intimidated by your 1D. School and
sports photography can get very competitive. Look at the senior
market/yearbook/school photographers.

I don't know the whole story, so I can just speculate.

mark kay said:

mark kay said:

Mark,

What type of photos were you trying to take? Candids or posed
shots? I don't see -- rules or no rules -- where she could prevent
you from taking candids in a public area. But if the players were
posed, then some restrictions would certainly be valid, and you
would be subject to their discretion. Part of this would have to do
with contractual agreements with the athletic association. In
addition, poses have a certain "intellectual" value, and might be
protected accordingly. But for candids, any attempt to stop you
might qualify as harassment.

M

mark kay said:

Here is something that was quite interesting that happened to me
today. My son's baseball team like the others in our town had
picture day. I brought my 1D and 28-70L lens to take a few shots
but I did order a package of photos from the photo company.

The lady in charge told me that anyone other than the hired
photographers were allowed to take photos and she escorted me to
the side. I thought this is crazy. I told her I ordered a big
package so i was not there to rip her off. She said sorry but that
is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

A few minutes later, I saw her escorting a lady with her point and
shoot to another team to take photos-- I questioned her about that
and she said the lady said she was not going to take the whole
teams photo but she was clicking away. i took a photo of this as
evidence. Of course, I was initially just trying to get some shots
of my son before the team photo.

I really think she might of thought I was doing professional
photography with the 1D. The actual photographers were all coming
up and saying what a great camera this was. They had not used them
yet but did have EOS 1V and D30s.

Anyway, I am going to write a note to the baseball league and copy
the photography company on it. I really think this was ridiculous.

Mark

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Michael Thomas Mitchell said:

You still havn't said what it is you were actually taking photos
of. We they posed shots or candids?

M

mark kay said:

Member said:

Let me ask you this. Were you taking pictures of the team as a
group, set up by the photographer(s)? Were you shooting over their
shoulders? Wait until they were done, then shoot? Or were you
just taking candid shots. What specifically was the lady taking
pictures of? Think of it this way. You are shooting formals at a
wedding, everything is set up, you pose the wedding party, and
Uncle Joe starts taking pictures of the group. Don't you think
this would cut into your print sales? Heck, the bride may as well
get the prints from Uncle Joe for free rather than pay you for the
"same" shots. Not to mention his flash is firing off your slaved
lights making you miss shots and/or you have to wait for it to
recycle.

Put yourself in their shoes. If all you were doing is candid snap
shots, then perhaps they were intimidated by your 1D. School and
sports photography can get very competitive. Look at the senior
market/yearbook/school photographers.

I don't know the whole story, so I can just speculate.

mark kay said:

Member said:

Mark,

What type of photos were you trying to take? Candids or posed
shots? I don't see -- rules or no rules -- where she could prevent
you from taking candids in a public area. But if the players were
posed, then some restrictions would certainly be valid, and you
would be subject to their discretion. Part of this would have to do
with contractual agreements with the athletic association. In
addition, poses have a certain "intellectual" value, and might be
protected accordingly. But for candids, any attempt to stop you
might qualify as harassment.

M

mark kay said:

Here is something that was quite interesting that happened to me
today. My son's baseball team like the others in our town had
picture day. I brought my 1D and 28-70L lens to take a few shots
but I did order a package of photos from the photo company.

The lady in charge told me that anyone other than the hired
photographers were allowed to take photos and she escorted me to
the side. I thought this is crazy. I told her I ordered a big
package so i was not there to rip her off. She said sorry but that
is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

A few minutes later, I saw her escorting a lady with her point and
shoot to another team to take photos-- I questioned her about that
and she said the lady said she was not going to take the whole
teams photo but she was clicking away. i took a photo of this as
evidence. Of course, I was initially just trying to get some shots
of my son before the team photo.

I really think she might of thought I was doing professional
photography with the 1D. The actual photographers were all coming
up and saying what a great camera this was. They had not used them
yet but did have EOS 1V and D30s.

Anyway, I am going to write a note to the baseball league and copy
the photography company on it. I really think this was ridiculous.

Mark

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Bob Markey II said:

I understand the ethics and courtesy of respecting another
photographer's work, but the fact remains if this event was taking
place in a publicly-owned and open facility, and you were not
interfering with the work, you had every right to bring and use
your camera - no matter how "professional" it is.

I was once arrested for standing up for my rights (photographing
the scene of a grand prix car racing crash during a practice
session at a public fairgrounds) to make pictures. I was there as a
journalist and stuck to my ground, even as I was harassed and
finally attacked by race personnel (and I was far enough away to
need 200mm lens). Unfortunately, the incident, for which I was
eventually vindicated, cost me thousands of dollars and some
embarrassment.

Was I right? Yes. Would I do it again? I'm not sure. Sadly, I will
admit it has had a somewhat chilling effect on my journalistic do's
and don'ts.

eyecon said:

Put yourself in their shoes. If all you were doing is candid snap
shots, then perhaps they were intimidated by your 1D. School and
sports photography can get very competitive. Look at the senior
market/yearbook/school photographers.

I don't know the whole story, so I can just speculate.

mark kay said:

BMarkey said:

Mark,

What type of photos were you trying to take? Candids or posed
shots? I don't see -- rules or no rules -- where she could prevent
you from taking candids in a public area. But if the players were
posed, then some restrictions would certainly be valid, and you
would be subject to their discretion. Part of this would have to do
with contractual agreements with the athletic association. In
addition, poses have a certain "intellectual" value, and might be
protected accordingly. But for candids, any attempt to stop you
might qualify as harassment.

M

mark kay said:

Here is something that was quite interesting that happened to me
today. My son's baseball team like the others in our town had
picture day. I brought my 1D and 28-70L lens to take a few shots
but I did order a package of photos from the photo company.

The lady in charge told me that anyone other than the hired
photographers were allowed to take photos and she escorted me to
the side. I thought this is crazy. I told her I ordered a big
package so i was not there to rip her off. She said sorry but that
is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

A few minutes later, I saw her escorting a lady with her point and
shoot to another team to take photos-- I questioned her about that
and she said the lady said she was not going to take the whole
teams photo but she was clicking away. i took a photo of this as
evidence. Of course, I was initially just trying to get some shots
of my son before the team photo.

I really think she might of thought I was doing professional
photography with the 1D. The actual photographers were all coming
up and saying what a great camera this was. They had not used them
yet but did have EOS 1V and D30s.

Anyway, I am going to write a note to the baseball league and copy
the photography company on it. I really think this was ridiculous.

Mark

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--
-------------------------------
Bob Markey II
http://www.palmswestpress.com
Royal Palm Beach/Wellington, Fla.

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travelingman said:

Laissez Les Bon Temps Rouller!! Let the Good Times Roll!!

travelingman

Greg M said:

mark kay said:

is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

Mark

Click to expand...

When you said that did you stand your ground and start shooting?
You had every right to since it was on public property.

Click to expand...

--
travelingman

Click to expand...

travelingman said:

Come on people--we as professional photographers rely on our
expertise
to set up and capture the image in the best way possible. I feel
for the team
photographers you may think that "man they are making a killing on
the
photos" but by the time the league gets their share there is not a
lot of
money left for the photograher.
When I first started my professional photgraphy career I did the
team thing but did not do it for long because of the little money
that was made from the shoot.
When you are shooting over the photographers shoulder-strobe or not-
you are taking a shot that was set up by someone else and you
should not
take it!! If you did this to me while I was shooting a wedding I
personally would ask you to stop.
Take your D1 and take candids of the games etc. you should not have
any problems and let the photograher that has to make a living by
taking
these team photos do his thing.
You would not want someone to look over your shoulder while you
were writing a paper or article for publication and then they wound
up getting it published first.

Laissez Les Bon Temps Rouller!! Let the Good Times Roll!!

travelingman

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Greg M said:

travelingman said:

Come on people--we as professional photographers rely on our
expertise
to set up and capture the image in the best way possible. I feel
for the team
photographers you may think that "man they are making a killing on
the
photos" but by the time the league gets their share there is not a
lot of
money left for the photograher.
When I first started my professional photgraphy career I did the
team thing but did not do it for long because of the little money
that was made from the shoot.
When you are shooting over the photographers shoulder-strobe or not-
you are taking a shot that was set up by someone else and you
should not
take it!! If you did this to me while I was shooting a wedding I
personally would ask you to stop.
Take your D1 and take candids of the games etc. you should not have
any problems and let the photograher that has to make a living by
taking
these team photos do his thing.
You would not want someone to look over your shoulder while you
were writing a paper or article for publication and then they wound
up getting it published first.

Laissez Les Bon Temps Rouller!! Let the Good Times Roll!!

travelingman

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I don't want to get into an argument with you. However, just
because you are getting paid to take photographs does not mean that
others can not. That's why we have laws that not only protect your
right to make money but also protect the rights of others to take
photos also. I'm sorry but the only place that you have the right
to make someone stop taking pictures of their own is in your
studio. In a church it's the church that has the right to allow or
not allow photos to be taken. You may think it's wrong but the law
is not on your side on this point. Photographer's photos are
protected but not there exclusive "right" to take those photos.

Again, I have no desire to go back and forth about this but the law
is clear about this and the photographer was wrong. I would
request that the league not use that photographer in the future
because of this. The parents are the ones who paid for the league,
officials and the photographer. This was rude and pitiful teatment
of the people that were footing the bill and should not be allowed.

Click to expand...

mark kay said:

5 I actually am planning on writing a letter to the league and copy
it to the photographer. I got their name and email. mark

Click to expand...

Greg M said:

mark kay said:

5 I actually am planning on writing a letter to the league and copy
it to the photographer. I got their name and email. mark

Click to expand...

A letter with other parent's signatures protesting both your
treatmant and the use of this photographer in the future will carry
more wieght. Good luck.

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mark kay said:

Greg thanks. The issue is that for my son's benefit I need to
balance his needs and mine. If i make a really big deal then it
may look like i am a trouble maker in general which i am not and
if the parents are difficult then in future years when the kids are
drafted it may be held against him. I think I will write the
letter and send by email to the president of the league. thanks Mark

Click to expand...

mark kay said:

Here is something that was quite interesting that happened to me
today. My son's baseball team like the others in our town had
picture day. I brought my 1D and 28-70L lens to take a few shots
but I did order a package of photos from the photo company.

The lady in charge told me that anyone other than the hired
photographers were allowed to take photos and she escorted me to
the side. I thought this is crazy. I told her I ordered a big
package so i was not there to rip her off. She said sorry but that
is the rule-no exceptions. As I was stewing on the sidelines, I
finally walked back and told her that it was a public park and if
she wanted to call the police and have me arrested she could.

A few minutes later, I saw her escorting a lady with her point and
shoot to another team to take photos-- I questioned her about that
and she said the lady said she was not going to take the whole
teams photo but she was clicking away. i took a photo of this as
evidence. Of course, I was initially just trying to get some shots
of my son before the team photo.

I really think she might of thought I was doing professional
photography with the 1D. The actual photographers were all coming
up and saying what a great camera this was. They had not used them
yet but did have EOS 1V and D30s.

Anyway, I am going to write a note to the baseball league and copy
the photography company on it. I really think this was ridiculous.

Mark

Click to expand...